[jjbirch]

+1 m sport is everything the feel and ride everything

Originally Posted by FieldingMellish

SteveG, leaving aside the fact that if you get either a 318i or a 318d you will indeed be getting a 'slower' car, I would recommend the 318i, especially if it's a question of having to lose the M Sport if you go with the bigger engine.

Maybe opening myself up for some abuse by saying this but so be it: I would rather have a 318i M Sport than a 330i SE. Yes, you heard that right!

I set out to buy a 320i in January, but the dealer didn't have a demo model and instead let me try a 318i M SPort. Then when I did eventually try a 320i, an SE, I wondered why it wasn't noticeably more powerful. And the ride was described by my wife as 'spongy'. So I waited and waited until I eventually got an acceptable price on a 318i M SPort, with the ED engine.

As for the steering, I really liked - and like - the electric steering. When I test drove a 320d (non-ED) I hated teh heavy steering.

All a matter of taste and personal preference of course. For me, burning up the road is not a priority (though that hasn't stopped me having a scare with a police car already and I only got the car 2 weeks ago ) But every time I get into the car and grip that M SPort wheel, and feel the way the car drives with the sport suspension, I have a little smile to myself....

[- Paul -]

Originally Posted by FieldingMellish

That's 0-62 mph, ie. 0-100 kilometers per hr, not 0-60.

Parkers quote 8.8 secs as the 0-60 time:

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/...px?deriv=38218

Against 8 seconds for the OLD 320D!!!

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/...px?deriv=29827

[mjh93sa]

To add my 1/2p worth to the debate:

My sister has a 118d (ED) and I would have to say that every time I drive it I am truly impressed, and almost wonder why I spent all the extra on the E91 (almost). It's an SE with the sports pack on so has the figure hugging seats and 17" wheels and sports suspension. By comparison my 330d is a pre-ED MSport.

In terms of ride and handling, the 1 is a stiffer ride and the steering is noticably lighter. However, I find the electric power steering of the 1 to be perfectly acceptable,though I pushed I'd have to say that my personal preference would be for the meaty steering of my 3, but that's more about the weight than any lack of feel (that I haven't noticed). The 1 seems to shrink around you more than the 3 and feels more chuckable whilst remaining a great motorway cruiser. Build quality is also at least as good as the 3. The boot is not huge, but it is a hatchback with folding seats as standard

In real terms the performance of the car is fine, and right up there with that of my old E46 320d (150hp). However it is about 100kg lighter than the 318d, so that would be bound to blunt performance a little. Enough to make you reject a 318d? Only you can say.

If I was spending a lot of time in the car then I think I would be going for the 318d. However, for a limited mileage I'd certainly look very strongly at the 1 series.

[SteveG]

MJH,

I know what you mean about the 1 series being able to shrink around you. I felt the same when I sat in one last weekend. It felt very much like a hot hatch to sit in and would hopefully be the same to drive.

Whilst I don't thrash my current 320D M Sport I do like to know that the power is there if I need it. I'm not sure I'd feel as confident in a standard 318d, hence the need for a Spider box.

I'll arrange a test drive in a 318d through our fleet manager at work and make my final decision after driving it. The Edition M Sport is pulling me towards the 318d because of all the extra goodies included but if the power isn't there I'll back off.

I won't consider dropping to SE spec just to get the 320d as I really like and have got used to the M Sport spec.

With that in mind and assuming the 318d is underpowered, could you drive between 30 and 35 k miles per annum in a 120d M Sport and feel comfortable and relatively quiet ?

The people on the baby beemer forum love their 1 series cars but most of them haven't driven the 3 series so cannot provide me with a valid comparison between both.

Steve.

[FieldingMellish]

Originally Posted by 1stnewcar

Against 8 seconds for the OLD 320D!!!

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/...px?deriv=29827

You seem to be building an argument against an assertion which I have not made!

Sure, even the new ED 318i is slower than your 320d. Yes, modern diesels are powerful and very torquey. But if I had to choose between a faster SE car or a slightly slower M Sport, I would always go for the M Sport.

[PhilR]

Originally Posted by SteveG

Phil,

Unfortunately due to the company car policy if I want the Edition M Sport it can only be a 318d version which has 143bhp. The same applies if I want the standard M Sport.

However, if I 'm prepared to change to SE or lower I can have a 320d.

I really do like the Edition M Sport with all it's extras and especially the wheels, but am not sure I could accept the drop from 163 to 143bhp.

I've just done a search on the forums and found a post by gIzzE in respect of a Spider Tuning box for the 320D (177). I've checked their website and it doesn't make reference to a box for the 318d (143). If they actually make one and it gets me to 170/175bhp I'd go for the 318 and get Spider Box.

I sat in a 120D M Sport 3 door in white at the weekend and it felt tight and compact. Unfortunately it was in the showroom so I didn't get to drive it. Are they that bad compared to the 3 series I'm used to ??

Steve.

Steve,

It sounds like you are really drawn to the spec of the M Sport Edition although you do mention the alloys in particular.

IMO the 1 series doesn't drive anywhere near as good as a 3 and is cramped although each to their own.

Sorry to hear you cannot contribute to upgrade - but I know how fussy companies can be about their staff's car and the whole situation can become frsutrating.

I would probably do one of the following:-

A) 318d M Sport (Edition) and get a remap - seen as though you cannot get a spider box. A remap (and again IMO) is a much safer option and controls boost, timing, injection pressure etc etc. I think the piggyback plug in units ony increase the rail pressure (which does increase boost indirectly). I have had 2 tuning boxes on diesel cars with varying results. My current 330d M Sport has been mapped instead (£350 after much researching) and the results are much better. No smoking and smoother linear power delivery.

Had a tuning box on my Saab TiD and was fine for a Year then began clogging the injectors and kept tripping the Engine Warning Light due to emmissions sensor - was an absolute nightmare and the car was in the dealers 3 times to sort out.

B) 320d (177ps) SE and upgrade the alloys and get a remap or a spider box for this to offset against the toys you ain't getting with the SE sepc.

As for the Sat Nav - I have Business Nav and it's fine (apart from anoying voice tone - pitty I can't get tones of Honor Blackman) although I'm sure the Pro Nav is better. If it's a Company car I wouldn't upgrade to the Pro Nav - If I was buying it myself I would upgrade to it as the resale will be better.

PhilR

[SteveG]

Phil,

Thank you for your honest assessment of the 1 series as it will make me think very carefully about going down that route especially given all the miles I do.

I've already ruled out option B as I'm used to having M Sport spec and don't want to drop down to SE even if it does get me a 320d.

On the Spider box, I agree that my preference would always be a proper remap. One of my colleagues who got one of the last 163bhp 320d models had his remapped at Celtic Tuning for £350. It now has circa 210bhp and having driven it I am astounded how much smoother it is then my standard version. There is no lag and power delivery is smooth and consistent even in 6th.

The only reason i was looking at the Spider box is because I've read numerous posts on here and on the babybmw site about it being impossible to remap the 177bhp unit as it's too secure.

If you know of a place that can do it and do it well, I'd certainly go down the remap route.

Thanks also for the tip on the navigation. I only play mp3 CD's in the car and as I intend to have the USB option, I would use that to play MP3's via my Creative Zen and therefore wouldn't really need a second CD/DVD drive.

Guess I can either save the money on the prof unit or add a bit to it and get a hifi upgrade or something.

Cheers,

Steve.

[- Paul -]

Originally Posted by FieldingMellish

You seem to be building an argument against an assertion which I have not made!

Sure, even the new ED 318i is slower than your 320d. Yes, modern diesels are powerful and very torquey. But if I had to choose between a faster SE car or a slightly slower M Sport, I would always go for the M Sport.

You said

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen3rd
SteveG, I went from a 318i M Sport (142 BHP) to 120d SE (163 BHP) and have now gone back to the 320d Edition M Sport in the link above.

The main reason i ditched the 318i (after 365 days) was because it was very very slow, i know the diesel will make a difference because of the extra torque but it is still a pretty heavy car to lug about.

S

A brand new 318i M Sport will be quicked than yours, because of the Efficient Dynamics engine - cuts 1 second off the 0-60 speed.

To me - that looks like you were saying a 318i edition is faster than a 320d

[PhilR]

Steve,

If the 320d has the same encryption as the the 6 pot diesels made late 2007 onwards then I am not aware that anyone has managed to crack these for a remap yet.

I'm guessing this will be achieved soon though?

PhilR

[SteveG]

Some good news

Mike has just replied to my email of yesterday to say that the their website is being updated and they do offer a Spider box for the 318d engine. Standard performance is 105KW/143BHP and tuned is 132KW/180bhp which is better than current 163bhp.

My mind is now more or less made up on the 318d Edition M Sport with the Spider box. If I'm not happy with the performance from the Spider and somebody does eventually crack the ECU, I can always consider a remap.

Steve.

[FieldingMellish]

Originally Posted by 1stnewcar

You said

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen3rd
SteveG, I went from a 318i M Sport (142 BHP) to 120d SE (163 BHP) and have now gone back to the 320d Edition M Sport in the link above.

The main reason i ditched the 318i (after 365 days) was because it was very very slow, i know the diesel will make a difference because of the extra torque but it is still a pretty heavy car to lug about.

S

A brand new 318i M Sport will be quicked than yours, because of the Efficient Dynamics engine - cuts 1 second off the 0-60 speed.

To me - that looks like you were saying a 318i edition is faster than a 320d

Look again! What I actually meant was that a new 318i, with the ED engine, would be faster than the old 318i which stephen3rd gave up becasue it was too slow.

[- Paul -]

Originally Posted by FieldingMellish

Look again! What I actually meant was that a new 318i, with the ED engine, would be faster than the old 318i which stephen3rd gave up becasue it was too slow.

Ok bud - misunderstanding cleared.

[mjh93sa]

Originally Posted by SteveG

MJH,

... assuming the 318d is underpowered, could you drive between 30 and 35 k miles per annum in a 120d M Sport and feel comfortable and relatively quiet ?

Steve.

Maybe a little academic now that the tuning box issue seems resolved, but I'll respond anyway.

If I was doing that sort of mileage on the motorway then the 120d MSport would be perfectly acceptable. However, if doing loads of miles on Britains A-roads I would be concerned that the hard ride would become tiring at the end of the day.

The 3 may also be a shade quieter when cruising, but there isn't much in it.

[SteveG]

mjh,

Not academic at all mate. Your comments are much appreciated even if they have set me thinking again. Do I save myself £70 a month by having a 120d 177bhp M Sport or go for the 318d Edition M Sport.

Having only sat in a 120d I would have thought that the suspension in that and my 320d M Sport would be the same. Yes it's firm but I'm used to it now after two and half years.

I'm awaiting a test drive in a 318d. Guess I should also have a drive in a 3dr 120d as well to be certain.

Decisions, decisions !!

[mjh93sa]

Test-driving them both will at least set your mind at rest that you have made the right decision.

As I've said I find that the 1series on sports suspension is firmer than my E91 MSport, not a great deal but enough to notice when you drive what passes for an a-road in this country.

On the motorway it makes little difference really, but you do get a bit better ride quality from the 3 due to the increased size and wight, but it's splitting hairs really.

Go test drive the crap out of them

[gIzzE]

The 120d M-Sport is the best all round car I have ever owned, with a spider box on it I could not keep up with my wife in the Audi S4 or the 535d on the back roads, it is an absolute pocket rocket when tuned.

I also went across Europe in it for 3000 miles, and did two 900 mile journys in it, and by that I mean stopping only to get coffee and refuel, and it is just as comfy as the 3 series, in fact the seats, driving position and steering wheel are exactly the same.

I had the 335i E91 and the 120d M-Sport at the same time and never minded which car I took, in fact I think I prefered the 120d to be honest, and we swapped the 120d for a 320d M-Sport E91, and I wish I had bought another 1 series now, a 123d. It is like getting back to basics, smaller and more chuckable and loads quicker.

A 123d with Logic 7, bluetooth and nav is pretty much a perfect car, there is talk of getting 260bhp from it when tuned, it would fly.

Don't get me wrong I love the 320d sport touring, but it is no more comfotable and not as much fun, however, don't get an Audi, I have had 10 over the last 6 years and they are all terrible in comparison, the S4 is the worst car I have ever owned, a real dog!!!

[SteveG]

gIzzE,

Thanks for that, I'm even more confused than ever now !!

I am however glad to hear such a glowing report about the 120d as I passed another dealer today and they had a white 120d 3dr M Sport with the 18 inch alloys and leather and it really did look smart.

If I did have the 1 series I wouldn't pay to have the navigation as I wouldn't really use it as I know where all our offices are. I wouldn't say no to it as a freebie on the 320 Edition M Sport mind you.

Leather, heated seats and the USB connection are must haves for me with some thought to a few others.

I've just had a look on the Spider website and realised that a box on the 177bhp engine it would take me up to 210bhp.

I can see this being a difficult decision especially as up until now I have always changed models if not manufacturers when changing my car company every three years.

[imaxgt]

Hi

New to the forum, ok just got my 318d Business Edition Touring - M Sport and i love it, looked at the Merc's and Audi's but have to say the BMW is great, been spoilt riden a BMW bike for the past 10 years

the 318D is cheaper on company car tax,

[m1bjr]

Crazy to be worrying over 20bhp on what is a rep mobile.
My collegue has an E92 320d, I run the much cheaper 318d E90 ed.
On a flat out pull you cant really see any difference.
Except on a similar run, at same speeds and loading I see 65mpg, he sees only 55

How do you pay for fuel?
That would be the clincher.
And the BIK rates are another big saving.

Regarding tuning boxes....
Does the Spider supplier guarantee there will be no 'tuner codes' logged in the ECu form its use?
If not you could have very serious implications later, and if its a lease car then I wouldnt want to run the risk personally.
Even my 2006 335i will log certain plausability codes if the boost and MAP pressures are not seen as normal, for example.
And as the end user you wont even know...

[chrisfez]

Hi, new to the site. Have a similar choice to make. Co Car scheme means I can either have a 320d M sport tourer or the 318d Sport Plus with a few more luxuries.

Currently drive a fully loaded 175 bhp diesel...

Local dealer has no 318d to test drive so I cant decide whether the power difference will be too much. Anyone experienced both?

[Em135eye]

I had an E90 318d M Sport loaner for a few days and also a (lighter, smaller) 120d M Sport. The 20d unit felt smoother and for some reason a little less rough. The 18d unit is fine for everyday driving but a few long hill climbs and it felt a bit wheezy. The 20d unit impressed me, the 18d unit didn't - and it wasn't just about power.

As has been mentioned above - the 120d is a great fun little car. Shame it's been adopted by so many Apprentice wannabee types that think they have a 911 beater. I have been tailgated by countless 120ds - almost as bad as Audis!

Could easily be that the 318d had been thrashed (it had 3500 miles on it) and the 120d was better looked after (2400 miles on it) but also there's obviously the weight difference.

I just think the 3er is too heavy for a smallish 4 pot diesel or petrol. "Fully loading" just adds even more weight. You end up with a car that more or less looks the part but with a power to weight ratio almost identical to our Suzuki Jimny... But that's a rather contentious issue... ;-)