[Clap135]

Shiv beat me to it. I have seen this first hand. I have also seen weak rpm picks causing someting 'SIMILAR" however not exactly wavy.

[UltraRacer13]

here is a dinan stage 1 from the same day

[acj75]

The graph that TXSailor posted was mine from that day. The print-out they gave me said it was 86.02 degrees, 29.63 in-Hg, 11% Humidity, STD: 1.02. They had a small fan blowing in front of our cars, which I'm sure was less than ideal.

Interestingly, the guy told us the numbers would be about 20 low...I dug around and located another Dinan Stage 1 graph where the numbers are almost exactly +20 from the ones I posted. Here it is:



This is my first experience with a dyno. At the very least, we got to put down numerous runs on the same dyno on the same day with different tunes for comparison.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by TXSailor

here is a dinan stage 1 from the same day

If the conditions are so bad the super conservative Dinan tuning is wavy clearly something is going with the dyno. In the case of the OP it seems map 5 was a little too aggressive for the circumstances (lack of airflow, etc). There is an IAT reduction built in to the JB3 but it assumes normal airflow as if one were on the road. With the G4 upgrade we'll finally be monitoring timing advance and factory boost target,
among others, making it more adaptive to dramatics conditions. Vs. having to select a map. In this case, map 3 would have probably been a better choice. Turning the AC off before the runs always helps too.

In terms of mods an intercooler is a good way to go, and downpipes would really help as well.

Mike

[joyride]

My STOCK car has about 9 pulls, 3 different days (testing filters and exhausts) that are pretty wavy, granted not as wavy as the jb3 dyno posted. But still not pretty. Still yet, calling it KNOCK after viewing a dyno chart is just flat out guessing and propaganda... If you really want people to believe you provide a similar dyno chart and logs that proves this. When you provide this smoking gun, you'll surely sell 1000's of procedes... until then, just admit it... you don't know it's knock from looking at a dyno chart.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by joyride

My STOCK car has about 9 pulls, 3 different days (testing filters and exhausts) that are pretty wavy, granted not as wavy as the jb3 dyno posted. But still not pretty. Still yet, calling it KNOCK after viewing a dyno chart is just flat out guessing and propaganda... If you really want people to believe you provide a similar dyno chart and logs that proves this. When you provide this smoking gun, you'll surely sell 1000's of procedes... until then, just admit it... you don't know it's knock from looking at a dyno chart.

+1. It could easily just be throttle closure from the JB3 modeling variations during these high heat runs. Datalogs FTW. Or better yet with the G4 autotuning FTW.

Mike

[forza1976]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Or better yet with the G4 autotuning FTW.

Mike

Autotuning??? couldn't you guys have at least come up with a different name Mike? At least something like "dynamic tuning" or "live tuning"

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by forza1976

Autotuning??? couldn't you guys have at least come up with a different name Mike? At least something like "dynamic tuning" or "live tuning"

why would they change a winning formula though?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by forza1976

Autotuning??? couldn't you guys have at least come up with a different name Mike? At least something like "dynamic tuning" or "live tuning"

What's even funnier is that BMS is misrepresenting that as well. The G4 board wont even offer ignition advance control/offsetting. So it's more like adjust-a-boost based on how much the car is knocking.

Shiv

[Misturrtinnie]

Originally Posted by michael1284

i think his meth ran semi-OK the first run, then didn't work his second run. that last run was working fine. he had switched his solenoids or something. so the one that i posted is his meth working fine.

regardless there were like 9-10 people that dyno'd that day, and half were jb3. and they were all wavy...it's a fact that my dyno was much smoother than the jb3's. now the reasons why, i have no idea, as i don't know that much about tuning :/ again, i'm not trying to start any wars, it's just my observation so take it as it is.

No micheal. haha turns out that it wasn't turned on period. I looked at the log again and the small baby blue line went sky high.... Thats how I knew something was wrong with the meth. Oh well... we'll dyno again one day my friend! And I will own you now, since I'll be ordering some monitoring "toys" from Terry. haha

And yes. The fan was horrible. I would push 17 psi while "driving" the car, and I barely did 15 on the dyno. And Micheal was the only one with an upgraded intercooler, so that could have made a huge difference. Everyone heatsoaked after the first run.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

What's even funnier is that BMS is misrepresenting that as well. The G4 board wont even offer ignition advance control/offsetting. So it's more like adjust-a-boost based on how much the car is knocking.

Shiv

huh? I thought that was their big thing? being able to control timing

Originally Posted by Misturrtinnie

No micheal. haha turns out that it wasn't turned on period. I looked at the log again and the small baby blue line went sky high.... Thats how I knew something was wrong with the meth. Oh well... we'll dyno again one day my friend! And I will own you now, since I'll be ordering some monitoring "toys" from Terry. haha

And yes. The fan was horrible. I would push 17 psi while "driving" the car, and I barely did 15 on the dyno. And Micheal was the only one with an upgraded intercooler, so that could have made a huge difference. Everyone heatsoaked after the first run.

so no meth flowing but still boosting based on the fact that meth should have been flowing?

[Misturrtinnie]

Originally Posted by Sniz

so no meth flowing but still boosting based on the fact that meth should have been flowing?

I figured it out after the first run and bump it back down to map 5 for the rest of the runs. "Notice the lower hp" Or something would have blown. And the car had no time to adapt so the rest of my runs came out crappy too. Oh well lesson learned, we'll have another dyno day soon. Hopefully one with a bigger fan because I really do not wanna install an intercooler.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by Misturrtinnie

I figured it out after the first run and bump it back down to map 5 for the rest of the runs. "Notice the lower hp" Or something would have blown. And the car had no time to adapt so the rest of my runs came out crappy too. Oh well lesson learned, we'll have another dyno day soon. Hopefully one with a bigger fan because I really do not wanna install an intercooler.

i'm glad you didnt blow anything then! and yes, you do want an intercooler, you just dont know it yet

[Misturrtinnie]

Originally Posted by Sniz

i'm glad you didnt blow anything then! and yes, you do want an intercooler, you just dont know it yet

You have no idea... I've been looking at AMS and HPF all day and dreaming about them all night....

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

What's even funnier is that BMS is misrepresenting that as well. The G4 board wont even offer ignition advance control/offsetting. So it's more like adjust-a-boost based on how much the car is knocking.

Shiv

Always with the JB3 knock claims, yet when your customers post logs showing 4-5 degrees of "adaptive timing retard" by the ECU @ 4000rpm or major timing drops at peak power that's always "all normal".

On the G4 you really know nothing about the setup. Being able to monitor actual timing advance and knock activity has opened up a whole new world of dynamic tuning. And for those that really think CPS is the only way to manage timing, the PRO board will be out there soon enough for a fraction of the price of other offerings with many more
features. It's a good time to be an N54 owner.

Mike

[Clap135]

Do you know why your Meth kit wasn't flowing? I'm know to hate the cm kit but all these Meth flow problems with that kit are disturbing at best. I would simply like to know if its user error or hardware flaws.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by joyride

My STOCK car has about 9 pulls, 3 different days (testing filters and exhausts) that are pretty wavy, granted not as wavy as the jb3 dyno posted. But still not pretty. Still yet, calling it KNOCK after viewing a dyno chart is just flat out guessing and propaganda... If you really want people to believe you provide a similar dyno chart and logs that proves this. When you provide this smoking gun, you'll surely sell 1000's of procedes... until then, just admit it... you don't know it's knock from looking at a dyno chart.

Too much ignition would show a severe torque dip generally, that is something that can be read just from a dyno. (Not saying its present here) just saying Dynos can show a lot of information not just a fancy number.

[Misturrtinnie]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Do you know why your Meth kit wasn't flowing? I'm know to hate the cm kit but all these Meth flow problems with that kit are disturbing at best. I would simply like to know if its user error or hardware flaws.

Completely user error. I like to fiddle with my car and not remember. one day it'll have a bad effect.

[joyride]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Too much ignition would show a severe torque dip generally, that is something that can be read just from a dyno. (Not saying its present here) just saying Dynos can show a lot of information not just a fancy number.

Completely agree, but in this case, the wavy chart was blurted out as knock, pretty much indicating (how i read it) that it was knocking across the entire powerband. Which is what i'm calling out as false and misleading. Which isn't cool and doesn't help out the community in any way. I'm all about learning, but people blur the lines of what is actual fact (with clear data) and what is just slander with overtones of "marketing".

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Sniz

huh? I thought that was their big thing? being able to control timing

That's the funny part. The "g4" board just adds CAN functionality. So timing can be monitored but not altered. Nor can the boost solenoids be driven directly. True boost and timing control won't cone until they release the entirely different Procede clone (jb4) that they are feverishly working on. So jb4 is different than jb3 g4. Confusing eh?

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by joyride

Completely agree, but in this case, the wavy chart was blurted out as knock, pretty much indicating (how i read it) that it was knocking across the entire powerband. Which is what i'm calling out as false and misleading. Which isn't cool and doesn't help out the community in any way. I'm all about learning, but people blur the lines of what is actual fact (with clear data) and what is just slander with overtones of "marketing".

The word knock is thrown around a bit and is TECHNICALLY used incorrectly.

This waveyness so to speak might be indication that ignition is being pulled and ramped up/down by the DME since that is infact how a stock car and a Jb3 controls ignition. (I strongly use the word "MIGHT" cause im not looking for a tuner war).
(It makes sense though if you think about it as pulling a 1/2 degree or full degree ignition, then going back up 1 degree or so and back down would induce power differences about 2-5HP).

Which is why there may be similarity between a Jb3 and Stock dyno waveyness.

Now... this is no kick at the jb3, its just is what it is, they both ride near the knock sensor to find the most ignition without knock....