[MuttGrunt]

Originally Posted by Jean-Claude

Do you think because a car is designed in Germany they don't build cars according to EPA laws(whatever they are)? A lot of BMW's are made right here in the US. In those cases, they MUST. I'm guessing that they use the same paint on their cars instead of using umpteen different paint systems for different lands
Think of California's CARB. Manufacturers are building cars that are shipped all over the world according to one state's requirements.
EPA is a bottleneck and they totally build cars around it.

EPA regulations have nothing to do with painting a car in Germany. The California idea you pose is about emissions; not manufacturing. How much the process of building a car in Germany will pollute Germany is of no concern to the EPA. How much that German car pollutes air in America is a concern of the EPA.

A car made in America by any manufacturer must abide by the Clean Air Act as well as other regulations set in place by not only the EPA, but any local municipalities additionally.

Whether or not the EPA is a bottleneck is debatable. What is not is that the paint of e90/92's has NOTHING to do with the EPA.

[Bobble]

Honestly if it were my car, for a first time fix I'd find a good reputable detailer in your area and let them fix it right. Last thing you want is to wear the c;earcoat down to nothing in that area, it'll never look right. If in Socal hit Eric up he'll tell you honestly what you can and can't do and how much.

[drummer12]

Yeah, I wouldn't either normally but it's a decent size...about the size of 1.5 quarters...just a nasty dull spot. If people complain about orange peel on here, trust me, this is way beyond that.

[Jean-Claude]

The EPA is the reason manufacturers no longer use lacquer paints. You really think the EPA doesn't have their hands in what automotive coatings are allowed in the states? They have proved in the past they do and simple reasoning tells one that they are only getting tougher.

BMW, as well as others, absolutely will paint based upon a bottle neck. They are not stupid. They are about mass production, not custom paint for every land. While most cars are made in the same place but shipped all over the world.

I brought up CARB as an example of how automotive manufacturers will produce a car based upon a bottle neck.

Do you really think that BMW doesn't care what EPA says about the paint sprayed at their South Carolina plant? If so, do you think BMW will choose to offer many different automotive finishes, or would they opt for buying in bulk for the sake of saving money?

Originally Posted by MuttGrunt

EPA regulations have nothing to do with painting a car in Germany. The California idea you pose is about emissions; not manufacturing. How much the process of building a car in Germany will pollute Germany is of no concern to the EPA. How much that German car pollutes air in America is a concern of the EPA.

A car made in America by any manufacturer must abide by the Clean Air Act as well as other regulations set in place by not only the EPA, but any local municipalities additionally.

Whether or not the EPA is a bottleneck is debatable. What is not is that the paint of e90/92's has NOTHING to do with the EPA.

[BayMoWe335]

I guarantee the EPA has a say in what paint the German car makers use if they are sold in the US...and build in the US.

[ideliver]

here's what $250,000 gets you...http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-P...c-auto-detail/

[DimSum]

Originally Posted by ideliver

here's what $250,000 gets you...http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-P...c-auto-detail/

Oh my god, that car is sweeeeeeetttttttttttttt!
I'm suprised hes using Meguires M105 on that car!
Would though some Menzerna Super Intensive Polish would do the trick..

[drummer12]

Originally Posted by ideliver

here's what $250,000 gets you...http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-P...c-auto-detail/

...wow. The back of that car looks horrendous. Don't know how you can part with that kinda money and be "okay" with getting that from the factory...

[drummer12]

And I do agree w/jean-claude...when it comes to things that are core part of the process (paint, emissions, etc.) and not just a quick option you can exclude/swap based on locale (module here, module there) manufacturers tend to pick the lowest common denominator. If you were up again MB, Lexus, and whoever else...you would be too. Some of it is also hedging their bets, i.e. if EPA requires it, then perhaps other places will require it too so let's just convert now for everyone.

[drummer12]

Okay, in reading more about this (like here, http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36099) turns out this is a common issue, even with Zaino stuff. Just unfortunate I suppose...but it does seem to be consensus that wetsanding is the way to take it out. I've been pretty lucky in this regard in the past, so I might try it once again in a day or two once I get some 2000 grit. Maybe if I'm really bored I'll even take some pics

[MuttGrunt]

Ok people listen;

For the last time - the EPA DOES NOT have anything to do with the regulations for painting a car in Germany. If you're having trouble understanding that, I'm not quite sure what to tell you. Europe has much tougher regulations than the US in many different areas, to include air pollution (size on their continent is around the size of the US but they have a population over 4x what we do here in the states).
Even if you do blame water-base paint for paint defects or orange, the fact remains that the clear-coat is STILL solvent based. Additionally, its not the base-coat that leads to the high amount of orange peel. This means that once again - it has nothing to do with the water-based coat that lays under the clear.

I don't like whoring myself out, but here is an article I did on this very topic: http://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-P...-it-a-problem/

I hope this clears some things up and misconceptions of modern paint.



OP: Zaino or other sealants will surely give you outstanding durability, but I've found that waxes seems to resist etching from bugs, bird crap, and hard water better than sealants. I'd recommend topping your favorite sealant with a layer of your favorite wax.

[Bobble]

On the condition of the new Italia, it does not surprise me. I have an aquaintence that is a professional athelete and collects cars. He bought a brand new Lambo Murci and it was in bad shape and needed correction like that out of the gate, he sent it straight to Georgia and had a UR twin turbo kit put on, wagoneered it back and then spent @$500 to have it corrected, interior was still wrapped in plastic it was that new. His Panamera was delivered in bad shape as well.

[drummer12]

Originally Posted by MuttGrunt

OP: Zaino or other sealants will surely give you outstanding durability, but I've found that waxes seems to resist etching from bugs, bird crap, and hard water better than sealants. I'd recommend topping your favorite sealant with a layer of your favorite wax.

Any particular wax you recommend that works well with the Zaino system?

[MuttGrunt]

Originally Posted by drummer12

Any particular wax you recommend that works well with the Zaino system?

Whatever you want to use should be fine. Keep in mind that any wax will just sit on top of the surface of the sealant (like it would sit on the paint) as wax doesn't "bond." No wax will "sit better" than another over your layers of sealant.
My personal recommendation is to use something easy to use. Why fight with wax when you've already worked hard to prep the car? The additional benefit of using an easy to use product is that you'll be more likely to use it often which equates to less of a chance to not have wax protection.

What kind of wax I use on a car often has to do more with the color of the car more than anything. Low carnauba % waxes look best on warmer colors (I LOVE Souveran on my red S2000) while I think colors like black look best with higher 'nuba content waxes (seem to be more optically clear and therefor seem to play better with the reflective nature of those colors). Nearly all waxes I've used I've enjoyed; Pinnacle Souveran, Wet Obsession, Dodo Juice Supernatural / Blue Velvet / Purple Haze / Rainforest Rub / Orange Crush / White Diamond, Rubbish Boy's Original Edition, Lusso Oro, Zymol Atlantique, etc.
Easier to use waxes: Souveran, Wet Obsession, Dodo Juice "soft" waxes
High Carauba content waxes; Dodo Juice's line, Zymol's estate "glazes", Lusso Oro, Rubbish Boy's Original Edition

There are many good waxes I haven't listed. Whatever you use that works well for you is fine. Where you order from will affect selection, and all major online suppliers have a very good selection.


Please also keep in mind that wax doesn't have the durability that layered sealant does - especially if you have a dark colored car. For best acidic etching protection, reapply every other month.
Hope my $.02's helps and happy detailing.

[drummer12]

Thanks for all the help! The color is Deep Sea Blue, so it's almost like black as far as the maintenance required to keep it looking nice. Now I just gotta 1) buy some gear and 2) pencil a good weekend to detail the heck outta this thing

[MuttGrunt]

^ May I only add that you might want to consider doing things over several days depending how in-depth you plan on detailing your car. If you plan on polishing and such, I often recommend people to split the car in half and do one half one weekend and the other the next. You don't get as tired, you don't spend as much time at once, and you'll probably pay better attention to what you're doing. Something to consider

[drummer12]

Luckily, the car sits in a garage so I don't have to worry about sun and such. If I don't do it all in one day or a weekend, I'll probably get more frustrated since I'll have to rewash, etc. I'll probably wash, clay and polish in the morning, and 3x Zaino + wax in the afternoon. Wait, that sounds like a lot...maybe you were on to something after all

Quick question on that note: I plan on putting 3 coats of Z-2 with the accelerant (I forget what it's called), which is supposedly the max you should put in a 24 hour period. Do I need to give a day to cure before I put on the wax, or can I just put it on right away?

[Bobble]

Not sure in Zaino but with BFWD I usually wax the weekend after giving it some time to cure. So far so good with that process. 2 coats BFWD same weekend following weekend a quick coat of wax to top, wax again as needed. Every sixmonth regimen.

[Davecafe85]

I'm having problems with my 328i clearcoat also, with the first month I got it I noticed paint chips on the hood and after 3 years now I see a new paint Chip every time I look at the hood this clearcoat is extremely thin and weak. Never Had this problem with any previous bmws. Seems like it is almost defective...

[MuttGrunt]

Originally Posted by drummer12

Quick question on that note: I plan on putting 3 coats of Z-2 with the accelerant (I forget what it's called), which is supposedly the max you should put in a 24 hour period. Do I need to give a day to cure before I put on the wax, or can I just put it on right away?

I'd wait to give the sealant a chance to fully set. Maybe wax the next week even.

Originally Posted by Davecafe85

I'm having problems with my 328i clearcoat also, with the first month I got it I noticed paint chips on the hood and after 3 years now I see a new paint Chip every time I look at the hood this clearcoat is extremely thin and weak. Never Had this problem with any previous bmws. Seems like it is almost defective...

Everyone complains about this but in reality - you're just noticing more.