[E92325i]

Just curious what kind of quality problems have you faced John_01?

My e92 is built in germany yet rattles and creaks worse then any other car i've owned .

[John_01]

Yes.. rattles and creaks are the most concerning issues. Mine is a 2009 build. There are some other issues that I prefer not to post is this thread. I don't like to be a whinger in someone else's thread. We can discuss by PM if you like.

[V1_R]

Unfortunately in todays market, we can't choose where our product is built... only who its built by.

So as a 3 series driver outside Europe, your car will be built in South Africa or India.

Having said this, I know lots of parts on the Bimmer are still manufactured in European countries, on both S.African and German models.

Ideally, I'd like everything I buy to be built in Germany as well.

[johnnydad]

I visited Lexus this morning and, to paraphrase Homer Simpson, I now know a genuine F-sport when I see one. The F-sport package is virtually identical to BMW’s M-sport offering and while the F badge may lack the pedigree and pretty colours of the M, the black headlining, sports seats, sports wheel and flash kickplates are worthy upgrades. The body kit less so, with an Aurion-like tacked on front lip spoiler and a particularly ugly s-shaped grill design which fails to match the simpler, more purposeful air intake beneath. Likewise the headlights and DRL’s are fussy and in spite of the smart titanium grey 5 twin-spoke 18’s the car still manages to look slightly under-tyred. By comparison, the LCI 325i, even on 17’s, looks squat, solid and fresh.

Inside, there would be few complaints about the quality of Lexus’ construction, but I still find the overall design and the expanses of plastic on the dash top and door mouldings somewhat unappealing and lacking in cohesion. Likewise the switchgear is comparatively a touch cluttered after the clean simplicity of the 3er's controls, and the ‘All auto’ sign on the window switch panel a disturbing reminder of the parent company. Of course the indicators and wipers are on the ‘wrong’ side in the IS, and don’t quite match the solid feel of the Munich marvel’s. In comparison to the 3er, this is still a small car. The a-pillar hovers nearby, the headlining and door furnishings are almost too close. My 183cm frame can fit perfectly well in spite but while I can access the rear, my knees are just brushing the driver’s seat back as I slide behind. The bench itself is quite softly padded and does permit sufficient headroom. The centre armrest has twin cupholders and a decent storage bin to compliment the map pockets in the back of the seats. Footroom, however, is marginal, and three teenagers would be a squeeze – this is a narrow cabin and closer in size to the 1 series in all respects.

Up front, the IF-sourced buckets are softly padded and nicely capacious offering a similar degree of adjustment to M-sport ones. The leather is certainly supple but also a little slippery. The lateral bolstering isn’t as firmly effective as the BMW’s seats and I found the under-thigh area a little too yielding. The driving position is almost there – seat a smidgin lower with the wheel a cm closer would suit perfectly. The passenger front seat is identical in shape but seems set higher, and the associated bulkhead is subtly angled with slightly less footroom to the centre of the car, meaning the occupant cannot compromise to free up rear seat space as easily as in the BMW.

The Lexus’ boot, at 378 litres, is only 8 litres larger than the E88, 82 litres shy of the E90, but the finish is immaculate and there is a space saver down below. Shame the rear backrests don’t fold. Few complaints about the toys included though – the navigation/phone system is superb, the Mark Levinson sound offering decent clarity to moderately high volumes, and such niceties as three-memory electric adjustment of the individually-heated seats, mirrors and wheel are good to have. Likewise the excellent reversing camera and parking assist – what a shame there aren’t matching front sensors.

The Lexus card provides keyless go which, like BMW Comfort Access, means simply pressing the Start button. Wiggle the Camry-like gearstick into drive and you’re away. The gearbox is a conventional 6-speed automatic with sport mode, controlled either via gearstick or lovely M3-like solid metal paddles. Further, any time you are cruising in Drive, you can flick down a couple of gears by activating the left paddle. The engine sings a sporty V6 tune, never too loud but always suitably audible. It may lack the tenor purity of an I6, but it certainly is gutsier in all ways than the IS250. That said, while the perception of a performance bargain remains, the claimed 0-100km/h in 5.6 is a little hard to believe. Above 4000rpm is when you really feel the significant advantage over the 325i but, like the little BMW 6 you need to work a bit for real pace. Below, it doesn’t really thrill quite as you might expect and throttle response is perhaps slightly sharper in the Beamer. As expected, refinement is excellent – bump-thump is a degree better than the 325i, with road noise over coarse chip muted to a similar degree.

The electric steering is higher geared than German competition and a little light of weighting and feel, there being a slightly disappointing artificiality to the way it works after the BMW. The ride can be busy at lower speeds over small deflections, jiggling a little here and there, but up the pace and it proves well-considered – firm but always well-controlled while managing to be softer in the rear than M-sport provides. Passengers would likely approve after riding in the back of the BMW.

The Lexus’ handling is very good. Drive moderately hard and it feels neutral, nicely balanced, compact and not excessively tubby. Accelerating out of urban corners and through roundabouts, the light steering and RWD is your friend. It feels agile, tidy, good fun, the power sufficient to work the chassis. Press harder and there is a touch more understeer than in the BMW. Grip levels remain high and it appears to carry similar speeds into corners as the M-sport Beamer without undue duress. However, if you want that extra involvement, it may disappoint. Go faster and it understeers a little bit more, seeming less than keen to apportion weight to the outside rear wheel, even on cambered uphill bends. It doesn’t scrub or scare, but proves less enthusiastic, less poised, less exciting than the 325i. Even with the extra oomph, the Lexus is less responsive to the right foot in corners. Teasing out a few degrees of oversteer at speed proved frustrating, with either a polite smidgin extra understeer when gentle with the right foot or an early dose of traction-control if heavy. A run back to back in the M-sport BMW brought this into sharp focus, with the balance, adjustability, feedback and sense of involvement in proceedings on a higher plane. In the Lexus, you can’t help but be impressed with the ability, whereas in the BMW you are being egged on, wearing a broad grin.

At under $80K drive away the IS350 is clearly a bargain, assuming run-in performance more closely matches Lexus’ quoted figures. It is hard to argue with the 4 year warranty, proven quality and level of service either. But it is a smaller and less versatile car than the competition is wishes to attract, with an ageing and at times incoherent aesthetic. All that could be forgiven if it matched the car it was aiming at – the 335i – as a pure driving experience, but it doesn’t. For me, the sense of driver focus and design in the 325i M-sport still wins me over easily but for others I can see the attraction of the extra features and performance promised by the little Lexus.

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by johnnydad

I visited Lexus this morning and, to paraphrase Homer Simpson, I now know a genuine F-sport when I see one. The F-sport package is virtually identical to BMW’s M-sport offering and while the F badge may lack the pedigree and pretty colours of the M, the black headlining, sports seats, sports wheel and flash kickplates are worthy upgrades. The body kit less so, with an Aurion-like tacked on front lip spoiler and a particularly ugly s-shaped grill design which fails to match the simpler, more purposeful air intake beneath. Likewise the headlights and DRL’s are fussy and in spite of the smart titanium grey 5 twin-spoke 18’s the car still manages to look slightly under-tyred. By comparison, the LCI 325i, even on 17’s, looks squat, solid and fresh.

Inside, there would be few complaints about the quality of Lexus’ construction, but I still find the overall design and the expanses of plastic on the dash top and door mouldings somewhat unappealing and lacking in cohesion. Likewise the switchgear is comparatively a touch cluttered after the clean simplicity of the 3er's controls, and the ‘All auto’ sign on the window switch panel a disturbing reminder of the parent company. Of course the indicators and wipers are on the ‘wrong’ side in the IS, and don’t quite match the solid feel of the Munich marvel’s. In comparison to the 3er, this is still a small car. The a-pillar hovers nearby, the headlining and door furnishings are almost too close. My 183cm frame can fit perfectly well in spite but while I can access the rear, my knees are just brushing the driver’s seat back as I slide behind. The bench itself is quite softly padded and does permit sufficient headroom. The centre armrest has twin cupholders and a decent storage bin to compliment the map pockets in the back of the seats. Footroom, however, is marginal, and three teenagers would be a squeeze – this is a narrow cabin and closer in size to the 1 series in all respects.

Up front, the IF-sourced buckets are softly padded and nicely capacious offering a similar degree of adjustment to M-sport ones. The leather is certainly supple but also a little slippery. The lateral bolstering isn’t as firmly effective as the BMW’s seats and I found the under-thigh area a little too yielding. The driving position is almost there – seat a smidgin lower with the wheel a cm closer would suit perfectly. The passenger front seat is identical in shape but seems set higher, and the associated bulkhead is subtly angled with slightly less footroom to the centre of the car, meaning the occupant cannot compromise to free up rear seat space as easily as in the BMW.

The Lexus’ boot, at 378 litres, is only 8 litres larger than the E88, 82 litres shy of the E90, but the finish is immaculate and there is a space saver down below. Shame the rear backrests don’t fold. Few complaints about the toys included though – the navigation/phone system is superb, the Mark Levinson sound offering decent clarity to moderately high volumes, and such niceties as three-memory electric adjustment of the individually-heated seats, mirrors and wheel are good to have. Likewise the excellent reversing camera and parking assist – what a shame there aren’t matching front sensors.

The Lexus card provides keyless go which, like BMW Comfort Access, means simply pressing the Start button. Wiggle the Camry-like gearstick into drive and you’re away. The gearbox is a conventional 6-speed automatic with sport mode, controlled either via gearstick or lovely M3-like solid metal paddles. Further, any time you are cruising in Drive, you can flick down a couple of gears by activating the left paddle. The engine sings a sporty V6 tune, never too loud but always suitably audible. It may lack the tenor purity of an I6, but it certainly is gutsier in all ways than the IS250. That said, while the perception of a performance bargain remains, the claimed 0-100km/h in 5.6 is a little hard to believe. Above 4000rpm is when you really feel the significant advantage over the 325i but, like the little BMW 6 you need to work a bit for real pace. Below, it doesn’t really thrill quite as you might expect and throttle response is perhaps slightly sharper in the Beamer. As expected, refinement is excellent – bump-thump is a degree better than the 325i, with road noise over coarse chip muted to a similar degree.

The electric steering is higher geared than German competition and a little light of weighting and feel, there being a slightly disappointing artificiality to the way it works after the BMW. The ride can be busy at lower speeds over small deflections, jiggling a little here and there, but up the pace and it proves well-considered – firm but always well-controlled while managing to be softer in the rear than M-sport provides. Passengers would likely approve after riding in the back of the BMW.

The Lexus’ handling is very good. Drive moderately hard and it feels neutral, nicely balanced, compact and not excessively tubby. Accelerating out of urban corners and through roundabouts, the light steering and RWD is your friend. It feels agile, tidy, good fun, the power sufficient to work the chassis. Press harder and there is a touch more understeer than in the BMW. Grip levels remain high and it appears to carry similar speeds into corners as the M-sport Beamer without undue duress. However, if you want that extra involvement, it may disappoint. Go faster and it understeers a little bit more, seeming less than keen to apportion weight to the outside rear wheel, even on cambered uphill bends. It doesn’t scrub or scare, but proves less enthusiastic, less poised, less exciting than the 325i. Even with the extra oomph, the Lexus is less responsive to the right foot in corners. Teasing out a few degrees of oversteer at speed proved frustrating, with either a polite smidgin extra understeer when gentle with the right foot or an early dose of traction-control if heavy. A run back to back in the M-sport BMW brought this into sharp focus, with the balance, adjustability, feedback and sense of involvement in proceedings on a higher plane. In the Lexus, you can’t help but be impressed with the ability, whereas in the BMW you are being egged on, wearing a broad grin.

At under $80K drive away the IS350 is clearly a bargain, assuming run-in performance more closely matches Lexus’ quoted figures. It is hard to argue with the 4 year warranty, proven quality and level of service either. But it is a smaller and less versatile car than the competition is wishes to attract, with an ageing and at times incoherent aesthetic. All that could be forgiven if it matched the car it was aiming at – the 335i – as a pure driving experience, but it doesn’t. For me, the sense of driver focus and design in the 325i M-sport still wins me over easily but for others I can see the attraction of the extra features and performance promised by the little Lexus.

whew, that's detailed coverage, how long did you spend with the Lex..maybe a picture would have nicely finished your coverage off

[V1_R]

Looks like an article I would find in my Wheels Magazine.... and probably would make a worthwile read in the loo (this is actually a good thing)

[sbce90]

Good write! Well worth the read. I love the advertising campaign "Very Powerful IS350"

IMO, I don't think the IS will sell as a drivers' car. From what you say, it seems as though it does perform well, but lacks the extra "x-factor" that BMW handling does?? Those interested in driving will no doubt also test a BMW and should hopefully be able to find that x-factor. Despite the fit + finish and amount of equipment, the interior doesn't do anything for me either. It's like the Japanese and Americans have never seen wood, or a decent wood trim! I assume the Fsport comes with some type of black or grey trim?? This will no doubt look like plastic someone would make a bin out of.

For me, the Lexus lends itself to slightly elderly people. My opinion is that the IS350 F sport will be sold to cashed up retirees who might get tricked into buying it by the salesman, who will no doubt describe it as better than a regular IS and worth the extra money.

Personally, I also find an LCI Msport (especially in white or blue) has a much more aggressive, yet somehow subtle appearance compared to something a Lexus could ever attain. The Fsport effort is a bit luke-warm, while the IS-F is a bit vulgar with its gaping wholes, bulging sides and fake tailpipes. They have not found a stylistic balance like BMW has.


Lexus just annoys me as it tries to be a luxo brand like BMW / Merc / Audi. BUT its JUST NOT! And it knows this and attempts to overcome this barrier by offering more for less money. At the end of the day though, you just paid for a pricey Toyota.

The DRLs look crap too.

/end rant.


P.S. Maybe it needs the Toyota SMG tranny to make it even sportier!

[zenderm3]

thanks Johnny... Great Write-Up!

I believe that the understeer that you experienced, reflects BMWs almost 50-50 weight balance/distribution. It gives all of the BMWs great handling around corners etc.

What you described as Toyota like feel... is exactly what puts me off Lexus period. I'm happy that they build great cars, but for the price point - would expect a clear distinction between Lexus/Toyota (I don't personally believe - my point of view -) that they pull this off.

The IS-F is a great car, with a great engine, but Lexus hasn't quite got the hang of a Motorsport enthusiast - again my opinion -.

@SBC - god that video is hilarious.... that poor gearbox!

Anyway... Thanks again for the write-up as previously posted... how long did you spend in the car?

[chappy]

Originally Posted by John_01

Yes.. rattles and creaks are the most concerning issues. Mine is a 2009 build. There are some other issues that I prefer not to post is this thread. I don't like to be a whinger in someone else's thread. We can discuss by PM if you like.

Funny that my m-sport is solid as a rock not one rattle,no creaks what so ever even going over railway lines and with 19''wheels my former lexus is250 rattled and creaks all the time,you have to turn your stereo up to drown the rattles.
As for the is350 power wise like at the forums from the states very close to 335 times still a bargain at less than $80000.

[johnnydad]

I only spent an hour with the car but did manage to extend it a bit on very familiar territory. It's the sort of car you could confidently recommend to most people and they would find it agile, sporty, quick, refined and terrific value.

Agree it does still lack some brand definition and character - I can't really put my finger on it but think it stems from the lack of design focus as much as the slight dumbing down of the driving dynamics. The sense of safety and responsibility being more important than ultimate enjoyment pervades.