[PKumarM3]

Originally Posted by Penn999

Do you not see my parts listed?? If you dont think thats a solid setup I dont know what is. Its not a dedicated track car but I leave near A LOT of country roads that I burn up every couple of weeks with my buddy in his ctsv. I have over 10k invested...Been driving bmw's for 7 years, its my 3rd one. My old 328is was converted into a turbo m3 that was tracked for a year. I believe I know whats up with tracking cars and the limits of my current car.

EDIT: I c you do own an 09 335xi, any mods?

i do see your modifications.

i am sure the 335 is a car that can be tracked, but most members on this message board call country roads and drag strips as measures comparable to track conditions and thats nowhere near true. a basic track - NJMP Lightning or Summit Point Main - will cause more wear on your car in one 25 minute session than a weekend FULL of country roads.

i choose not to answer the question of whether my car is modified or not since BMW NA is a reader of this message board. my m3 is my dedicated track car - http://pkumarm3.wordpress.com

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by Penn999

Do you not see my parts listed?? If you dont think thats a solid setup I dont know what is. Its not a dedicated track car but I leave near A LOT of country roads that I burn up every couple of weeks with my buddy in his ctsv. I have over 10k invested...Been driving bmw's for 7 years, its my 3rd one. My old 328is was converted into a turbo m3 that was tracked for a year. I believe I know whats up with tracking cars and the limits of my current car.

EDIT: I c you do own an 09 335xi, any mods?

He was just saying that highway pulls aren't similar to real track abuse. Which is correct.

Some people have different opinions on what "Track Abuse" really is.

[jjurroz]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I'm going to throw in my 2 cents.
After all of the issues that I've had with this car, it's the funnest and fastest car I've ever owned.
I have 88k miles on my car right now and am thinking of getting rid of it since the miles are getting higher and higher.
At first, I was thinking of getting another 335i but after the horrible results of modifying the N55, getting another N54 is definitely another option.

The issue that I find is getting such a small car.
I'm still holding my breath for the e90 335is.

can you elaborate on the "horrible results of modifying the n55" ? you can pm me if you want.

[PKumarM3]

Originally Posted by jjurroz

can you elaborate on the "horrible results of modifying the n55" ? you can pm me if you want.

can't squeeze much power out of the n55 as you can out of the n54

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by jjurroz

can you elaborate on the "horrible results of modifying the n55" ? you can pm me if you want.

Sorry. Didnt mean to put it that bluntly but the N55 won't get anywhere near the results of the N54. One of the main reasons is due to the N55 having a MAF.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by PKumarM3

i do see your modifications.

i am sure the 335 is a car that can be tracked, but most members on this message board call country roads and drag strips as measures comparable to track conditions and thats nowhere near true. a basic track - NJMP Lightning or Summit Point Main - will cause more wear on your car in one 25 minute session than a weekend FULL of country roads.

i choose not to answer the question of whether my car is modified or not since BMW NA is a reader of this message board. my m3 is my dedicated track car - http://pkumarm3.wordpress.com

Well then believe me that I know what a track session is like and that im sure my car could handle it, I will be getting coolingmist meth, quaife lsd, and upgraded turbos/single turbo setup, and moton suspension in the first quarter or next year. Then I will be pretty much done. I doubt a lot of cars on here will be running next to that....i really hope you arent worried about BMW NA "spying" on you on here. LOL....no offense but I highly doubt they are singling guys out on here, more specifically you. How would they link a username to a specific car anyway?? I think thats a bit overboard.

[Nutballa]

Originally Posted by PKumarM3

you guys are hilarious

coming from a PCA and NASA instructor, myself, the car is only 50% of the battle. A qualified driver, lets say a professional, in a 330i zhp would lap 99% of the participants in this thread on a road course in their beloved 400hp heavy pig n54's.

A modified 335 will be faster than a modified m3 on a straight away. Thats half the challenge. Turn in speed capability, slip angle, track out ease, weight balance, chassis rigidity - all that gives the favor to an m3. Its a superior platform, as it should be since more r&d goes into it.

HP #s mean dick on most road courses. Faster cars SHOULD put down faster lap times, but faster cars require more experienced and superior drivers to achieve those lap times. Drivers are more important than the # your car dynos.

the bottom line is that the 1M was a heavily requested car. People complained that BMW ex'ed out the M coupe and roadster, and there was the 128/135 but no sign of the 1M. BMW saw the demand and created the supply - after all they are in the business of making money. Its a shame that the motor was not built ground up - which usually had been the case for most M cars. but times are changing and people need to accept the fact that the e46 m3/ e36 m3/ e30 m3 are no longer what 99/100 M owners desire. They want luxury, high hp #s, fast 0-60 times, and could care less about nurburgring lap times or sub 3300 lb cars.

If you desire diction like that, go to a company that will always add to their racing heritage - Porsche.

Regardless of how many SUVs and ugly sedans they make, they will always have the ultimate sports car - the 911. And its like being a kid in a candy store when you choose Porsche.

TRUE!! Awesome E46 M3 you got there! nice and gutted.

[aus]

Originally Posted by PKumarM3

you guys are hilarious

coming from a PCA and NASA instructor, myself, the car is only 50% of the battle. A qualified driver, lets say a professional, in a 330i zhp would lap 99% of the participants in this thread on a road course in their beloved 400hp heavy pig n54's.

A modified 335 will be faster than a modified m3 on a straight away. Thats half the challenge. Turn in speed capability, slip angle, track out ease, weight balance, chassis rigidity - all that gives the favor to an m3. Its a superior platform, as it should be since more r&d goes into it.

HP #s mean dick on most road courses. Faster cars SHOULD put down faster lap times, but faster cars require more experienced and superior drivers to achieve those lap times. Drivers are more important than the # your car dynos.

the bottom line is that the 1M was a heavily requested car. People complained that BMW ex'ed out the M coupe and roadster, and there was the 128/135 but no sign of the 1M. BMW saw the demand and created the supply - after all they are in the business of making money. Its a shame that the motor was not built ground up - which usually had been the case for most M cars. but times are changing and people need to accept the fact that the e46 m3/ e36 m3/ e30 m3 are no longer what 99/100 M owners desire. They want luxury, high hp #s, fast 0-60 times, and could care less about nurburgring lap times or sub 3300 lb cars.

If you desire diction like that, go to a company that will always add to their racing heritage - Porsche.

Regardless of how many SUVs and ugly sedans they make, they will always have the ultimate sports car - the 911. And its like being a kid in a candy store when you choose Porsche.

Thank you!! A real DRIVER instead of a bunch of Internet Desktop "racers."

Originally Posted by Penn999

Well then believe me that I know what a track session is like and that im sure my car could handle it, I will be getting coolingmist meth, quaife lsd, and upgraded turbos/single turbo setup, and moton suspension in the first quarter or next year. Then I will be pretty much done. I doubt a lot of cars on here will be running next to that....i really hope you arent worried about BMW NA "spying" on you on here. LOL....no offense but I highly doubt they are singling guys out on here, more specifically you. How would they link a username to a specific car anyway?? I think thats a bit overboard.

How many times have you been on a track? Because you talk like the typical Internet desk jocky throughout the thread. Unless you don't care about your license and the safety of others on the road, there is NO WAY IN HELL you'll recreate the stress your car goes through on a track while on public roads.
Join the BMWCCA and take your rocket on the track, and watch as instructors in an old E30 or E36 M3 walk away from you after 3 turns.


It's also SHOCKING how little people on this side know about what an M car USED represent before this dumbass Kay Segler took over. The previous director's of M carried on the core values of an M car, and this A-hole threw them all out the window putting profits ahead of core M values.
There was a GREAT article in Roundel a couple years back with the then director of M and he explain those core values and why there were only a few M models.
He said all M cars must be relatively light, so there were no M SUV or even M 7 series cars. They also had to have manual gear boxes, ie no slush boxes, again no 7 series or SUV's.
Then the motors had to be designed by M and be high reving like race motors. The power had to be linear and the extra rev's allows you to shift less and reach the next corner.
Turbo's were not part of the equation, and sticking an "N" motor in an "M" car would be unthinkable back then.
M cars were not about straight line speed, but more about combining enough power with the proper steering feel and suspension tuning to allow you to go fast. Yes there is some understeer dialed in for safety/legal reasons, but they still handle better than anything in their class.

.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by aus

Thank you!! A real DRIVER instead of a bunch of Internet Desktop "racers."



How many times have you been on a track? Because you talk like the typical Internet desk jocky throughout the thread. Unless you don't care about your license and the safety of others on the road, there is NO WAY IN HELL you'll recreate the stress your car goes through on a track while on public roads.
Join the BMWCCA and take your rocket on the track, and watch as instructors in an old E30 or E36 M3 walk away from you after 3 turns.


It's also SHOCKING how little people on this side know about what an M car USED represent before this dumbass Kay Segler took over. The previous director's of M carried on the core values of an M car, and this A-hole threw them all out the window putting profits ahead of core M values.
There was a GREAT article in Roundel a couple years back with the then director of M and he explain those core values and why there were only a few M models.
He said all M cars must be relatively light, so there were no M SUV or even M 7 series cars. They also had to have manual gear boxes, ie no slush boxes, again no 7 series or SUV's.
Then the motors had to be designed by M and be high reving like race motors. The power had to be linear and the extra rev's allows you to shift less and reach the next corner.
Turbo's were not part of the equation, and sticking an "N" motor in an "M" car would be unthinkable back then.
M cars were not about straight line speed, but more about combining enough power with the proper steering feel and suspension tuning to allow you to go fast. Yes there is some understeer dialed in for safety/legal reasons, but they still handle better than anything in their class.

.

Ive been a member or BMWCCA for 7 years, I love getting my Roundel in every month. Its loaded with great info, but I think its geared to 30+ croud. I have attended the M driving school for 2 days a couple of years ago. I was impressed with how much you can learn in two days. I agree that you cant run you car nearly as hard on the track as you do on the road, but you can come close. I have been to the track 8 times not including the M school. That was all with my 328is to M3 turbo conversion. That car was raw, no stability control, it would get sideways in a hurry. I love how you M owners seem to know EVERYTHING, and can determine who is a "real" racer and who isnt by reading posts online. I think thats rather speculative and you sound childish. I think thats why I enjoy tuning my cars to beat up on an M, I love to see you guys faces when I pass by you, its like you cant believe it.

-your favorite "internet racer" hahaha....

[cn555ic]

BMW seems to be going in a different direction these days with FI instead of N/A platform and I think thats why so many people have their underwears in a twist....It may seem not the typical "M" platform but like I stated the N54 seems to be a winner except for the dreaded HPFP which has plagued this engine....I love my N54 equipped non "M" E93!! lol

[PKumarM3]

Originally Posted by Penn999

I love to see you guys faces when I pass by you, its like you cant believe it.

I will take your challenge.

Sign up for any NASA Mid Atlantic event next season or Schattenbaum PCA event at Summit Point in mid-May. PM me when you sign up and I will sign up for the event as well. Heck sign up for ANY event in the North East - VIR to Watkins Glen.

Bring a lap timer since competitive racing is not allowed in HPDE and we can compare times.

How about it?

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

BMW seems to be going in a different direction these days with FI instead of N/A platform and I think thats why so many people have their underwears in a twist....It may seem not the typical "M" platform but like I stated the N54 seems to be a winner except for the dreaded HPFP which has plagued this engine....I love my N54 equipped non "M" E93!! lol

I AGREE 100%. Why do you think a lot of e46 M3's are going the HPF route. If you have ever driven one or rode in one, you would know what im talking about. The old NA's cant hang with these new FI platforms. Turbos are the thing of the future. Efficiency, power, economical, and most of all, THEY ARE A BLAST TO DRIVE! The N54 is the start of many BMW FI applications to come.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by PKumarM3

I will take your challenge.

Sign up for any NASA Mid Atlantic event next season or Schattenbaum PCA event at Summit Point in mid-May. PM me when you sign up and I will sign up for the event as well. Heck sign up for ANY event in the North East - VIR to Watkins Glen.

Bring a lap timer since competitive racing is not allowed in HPDE and we can compare times.

How about it?

This is my daily driver at the moment, but if all things go the way they did last year, I will be more than happy to start racing on the track again. VIR is a blast! Lots of good memories there with the old e36 328is...I look forward to meeting you and I hope that I can keep investing in my car so that I can have it track ready next year. The new job(financial advisor) has me working about 65 hrs min. a week. My goal will be to buy another car as my daily driver and convert this into my track car by the summer.

EDIT: I did check out your e46 m3, it looks like you have put a lot of time into it. Great looking ride! HAHA I did some more reading, you seem to have some deep pockets my friend. Looks like I will need to be working some overtime to keep up with you. Maybe you can teach me a few things since you are an instructor now, its been a while since Ive been able to get out there on the track.

[MisterSkiMask]

I have a little track experience under my belt, in street cars and a motorcycle. I also became friendly with the instructors.

Instructors log lots of laps and are very good drivers. A good instructor in a Mini Cooper S will kick the sh*t out of 'back road driver' with a modded 400 hp car that he can't control.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

I have a little track experience under my belt, in street cars and a motorcycle. I also became friendly with the instructors.

Instructors log lots of laps and are very good drivers. A good instructor in a Mini Cooper S will kick the sh*t out of 'back road driver' with a modded 400 hp car that he can't control.

I dont disagree my friend

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by aus

It's also SHOCKING how little people on this side know about what an M car USED represent before this dumbass Kay Segler took over. The previous director's of M carried on the core values of an M car, and this A-hole threw them all out the window putting profits ahead of core M values.
There was a GREAT article in Roundel a couple years back with the then director of M and he explain those core values and why there were only a few M models.
He said all M cars must be relatively light, so there were no M SUV or even M 7 series cars. They also had to have manual gear boxes, ie no slush boxes, again no 7 series or SUV's.
Then the motors had to be designed by M and be high reving like race motors. The power had to be linear and the extra rev's allows you to shift less and reach the next corner.
Turbo's were not part of the equation, and sticking an "N" motor in an "M" car would be unthinkable back then.
M cars were not about straight line speed, but more about combining enough power with the proper steering feel and suspension tuning to allow you to go fast. Yes there is some understeer dialed in for safety/legal reasons, but they still handle better than anything in their class.

That's all great in theory... except for the fact that about 15 yrs ago, the E36 M3 in the U.S. market had a low revving 240hp motor with a 6500 RPM redline. Why? Because they wanted to price the car better for the North American market, i.e. for profit. I'm sure Kay Segler wasn't around when that decision was made.

Face it... times change, priorities change. BMW is a for profit business first and foremost. Building great cars is a secondary objective. When the E36 came out, I'm sure there were people bitching about how a 6 cylinder shouldn't be in an M3... then when the E9x M3 came out, there were more people bitching about how heavy it was and how an M3 shouldn't have a V8. Fast forward to today, now people bitch about how M motors shouldn't be turbocharged. Heck, if BMW stuck to tradition, M3s would still have 2.3L 4 cylinder engines.

Speaking of which, that original S14 4 cylinder was based on the BMW Formula 1 inline-4 motor which produced 1500 hp in turbocharged form. So, there is a history of BMW using turbos in their motorsports engines.

BMW is just evolving their business model. It's called progress.

[aus]

They'll sell plenty of M cars if they had a proper M engine... and make a PROFIT! BMW doens't make their profit on the M cars. They make most of their profit on the 5 and 7 series.
It's just a lot CHEAPER to drop in a standard engine and slap on an M badge. They'll make more profit for sure. It's just too bad Motorsport decided to follow MB and slap a Performance label on anything with 4 wheels.
An M car should at least have a M engine; not an engine that's already in production for a non-M car.
I'm not knocking the N54. If you look back at my posts here and on the M side, you'll see I think it's a much better street motor than the S65. It's just not an M motor.
Ask chillicheese how his 335 did on the track. Two days of limp mode on the first hot lap and he's not the only one with such issues. I'm hoping BMW at least fixed this issue in the 1"M"

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by aus

They'll sell plenty of M cars if they had a proper M engine... and make a PROFIT! BMW doens't make their profit on the M cars. They make most of their profit on the 5 and 7 series.
It's just a lot CHEAPER to drop in a standard engine and slap on an M badge. They'll make more profit for sure. It's just too bad Motorsport decided to follow MB and slap a Performance label on anything with 4 wheels.
An M car should at least have a M engine; not an engine that's already in production for a non-M car.
I'm not knocking the N54. If you look back at my posts here and on the M side, you'll see I think it's a much better street motor than the S65. It's just not an M motor.
Ask chillicheese how his 335 did on the track. Two days of limp mode on the first hot lap and he's not the only one with such issues. I'm hoping BMW at least fixed this issue in the 1"M"

Its all about getting a second oil cooler and if u track your car a lot, u should get the all aluminium radiator. Ask daya and alpina b3 lux. Both track there car with no more limp modes. I do agree, you cant take a stock n54 to the track. But you can do it with the added oil cooler, since ive gotten mine installed I havent seen oil temps over 240, and I have a lead foot.

[cn555ic]

When the N54 platform entered the market in 2006/2007 the M series took a major hit as far as sales go. There were fewer sales on the M model and all the enthusiast were buying the 335.