[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by teknochild

that the thing though, oil does not pick up energy at a fast rate like say alcohol, it can hold a ton of energy but it takes a LONG time, thats why they use oil at power plants to transfer heat to boilers and at solar arrays and such, but its not a cooling device

if the oil is cooler than the engine parts, it will cool them... and very effectively because of the fact that it can absorb a lot of energy...

[teknochild]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

if the oil is cooler than the engine parts, it will cool them... and very effectively because of the fact that it can absorb a lot of energy...

if you say so, i suggest you go out to your car and test it, its actually the opposite

[Doccommando]

Failure to warm up or cool down will lead to your turbos oil lines being filled with build up. This build up cuts down the amount of oil that can reach the turbos at any given time. A few months of this with shitty lines and you'll begin to hear a small, high pitched whine. You'll hear that whine get louder and louder until one day your turbos start smoking and you have to pull over because your car won't run.

[teknochild]

Originally Posted by Doccommando

Failure to warm up or cool down will lead to your turbos oil lines being filled with build up. This build up cuts down the amount of oil that can reach the turbos at any given time. A few months of this with shitty lines and you'll begin to hear a small, high pitched whine. You'll hear that whine get louder and louder until one day your turbos start smoking and you have to pull over because your car won't run.

[Doccommando]

Originally Posted by teknochild

If you knew anything about turbocharged cars you'd know that this is how turbos break.

The 2000-2002 Audi S4 had a V6 Twin-turbo set up and the early build cars had countless issues with this exact problem.

[teknochild]

Originally Posted by Doccommando

If you knew anything about turbocharged cars you'd know that this is how turbos break.

The 2000-2002 Audi S4 had a V6 Twin-turbo set up and the early build cars had countless issues with this exact problem.

ok a sinlge model of audi, in a very small build date range had that problem

great, must apply to all turbo cars

there are many, many oil lines in the car...

[itsbrokeagain]

Originally Posted by radgator1

Actually, no not like that. You were correct up to that point. The ocean takes a long time to change temp due to the massive volume. Specific heat is an intensive quantity, meaning it is a property of the material itself, and not the size or shape of the sample. Its value is affected by the microscopic structure of the material.

Its also due to the fact that water has a specific heat 1. So both of you are right.

A small pot of water will take a while to boil as well....water can hold tremendous amounts of heat, just like oil can.

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by teknochild

ok a sinlge model of audi, in a very small build date range had that problem

great, must apply to all turbo cars

there are many, many oil lines in the car...

actually... Turbos do do this and it wasn't just a single Audi model.

Turbos get incredibly hot and can actually "coke" the engine oil and block off passages... especially when not warmed up /cooled down properly. Sluge problems etc is a common concern with Turbo charged engines.

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by teknochild

if you say so, i suggest you go out to your car and test it, its actually the opposite

so you think that cool engine oil warms up engine parts that are already warmer than the oil? Wake up man... until oil gets to operating temperature, it is just a huge heat sink.

[Ryan@Motorwerks]

I'm just sick of waiting for my car period

[Terry335]

Guys you're missing the point. I know the risks but just want to know how to do it.

[itsbrokeagain]

Originally Posted by teknochild

ok a sinlge model of audi, in a very small build date range had that problem

great, must apply to all turbo cars

there are many, many oil lines in the car...

Um...actually.....Doc and epiphone are right.

That applies to almost every turbo car, whether its your old renault turbo or rx-7 to your 335 or Porsche.

You don't let it cool down, the oil will coke on the bearings, and when oil cokes up it turns to crud. Hence blocking the oil lines, and depriving the turbos of oil. This doesnt usually apply to cold oil, but trying to ask the turbos to boost when the oil is still cold and oil pressure is high, well...it leads to things like blown oil seals, and huffs of blue smoke out the tailpipe, or into your engine.

I usually dont beat on my car during the commute anyway. Its all stop and go in 1st and 2nd, so my oil warms up nicely

[teknochild]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

so you think that cool engine oil warms up engine parts that are already warmer than the oil? Wake up man... until oil gets to operating temperature, it is just a huge heat sink.

no oil is NOT a huge heat sink, thats the point, oil does NOT ABSORB HEAT QUICKLY it will cool the engine yes, anything colder than the engine will cool it to a degree, but were talking about maybe 1 degrees diffrence from oil thats say 70 degrees, it has no impact on the engine, go confirm it with your coolant temps, engine takes maybe a few minutes to warm up, 1/3 the time it takes the oil to

if oil has the ability to absorb heat quickly, we would not need coolant and radiators, we would just have a ton of oil and a huge cooler in place of the radiator, but we dont because oil transfers heat SLOOOOWWWWLLYYYYYY




why do you think they use copper and aluminum for CPU heat sinks instead of say lead or iron (besides weight), because your CPU would FRY

Originally Posted by itsbrokeagain

Um...actually.....Doc and epiphone are right.

That applies to almost every turbo car, whether its your old renault turbo or rx-7 to your 335 or Porsche.

You don't let it cool down, the oil will coke on the bearings, and when oil cokes up it turns to crud. Hence blocking the oil lines, and depriving the turbos of oil. This doesnt usually apply to cold oil, but trying to ask the turbos to boost when the oil is still cold and oil pressure is high, well...it leads to things like blown oil seals, and huffs of blue smoke out the tailpipe, or into your engine.

I usually dont beat on my car during the commute anyway. Its all stop and go in 1st and 2nd, so my oil warms up nicely

were talking about warming the oil not letting it cool off, running "cold" oil through your turbos isnt going to kill them or cause oil lines to block, that may apply to letting the oil cool on some model engines, but it has nothing to do with cold oil; thats just BS

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by Terry Burger

Guys you're missing the point. I know the risks but just want to know how to do it.

Use this:

http://www.webasto.us/press/en/am_of...aters_821.html

It's for heating the car's water-circuit. No risk. You can activate such systems by using a cell-phone ( option ). If you have a poor GSM/UTMS signal in your garage, a GSM/UTMS-repeater will help.



Good luck !

Cheers
Eugen

[leftcoastman]

Hmm, does anyone know the temperature at which boost is finally "on" ?

[merritt]

The ECU control during start up is a lot more complicated than you think. Emissions control has a lot to due with start up programming. An engine emits the most polutants during start up. Catalytic converters do not function optimally until they are very hot. For this reason the engine management retards the timing until well after piston top dead center so that combustion events are directed at heating the cats, this is in addition to the combution events that power the vehicle. That means that RPMs can be limited for a time period because enough time must be allowed between combustion events.

The ECU must also be programmed to worry about cold start, particularly start up in freezing temperatures. Cold pistons and cold cylinder walls can turn atomized fuel back into liquid. When that happens the fuel won't burn properly. Until the engine gets up to temperature the injected fuel needs to be limited to ensure that the fuel will stay atomized and all the fuel needed for the metered air gets burned.

It isn't all about oil reaching the right viscosity. There are many systems that interlace.

[Revlis]

Teknochild, just because you WANT something to be the way you say it is, doesn't mean that's the way it is...

Make sure you temper your intuition with some knowledge and experience. Frequently in thermodynamics, Fluid Dynamics, and physics in general, what MAKES SENSE on an intuitive, or instinctual level turns out to be inaccurate or in many cases completely dead wrong.

Arguing against decades of turbo engine design and documentation, as well as
the most basic principles of physics, thermodynamics, and metallurgy makes you sound out of your depth.

Intuition is a fine thing, but be certain to follow your intuition with learning. Don't let your own assumptions rule your thinking. I've done the same thing, for a lot of years. Even in College arguing from an intuitive perspective, only to have facts show up and squash the hell out of it.


There's the Zen moment of the day.

[Revlis]

Remember... There is NO spoon.