Bucking surging 1st gear only?

335iLI · 01-05-2011, 11:03 PM

I've been having this problem for a couple months now. I took my procede out so it has nothing to do with that. Im mt and when I put the car in 1st and hit the gas the car is very jerky not smooth through 1st but fine through the rest of the gears. This does not happen every time. If I come off the clutch a lil quick or I don't engage 1st perfect it seems to happen. Any ideas what it may be. Thanks guys

NiVeDh · 01-05-2011, 11:10 PM

I think that's just the nature of a manual transmission - direct connection, no torque converter to dampen anything.

secretsquirrel · 01-05-2011, 11:15 PM

how many miles? ever changed your sparkplugs?

335iLI · 01-05-2011, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secretsquirrel

how many miles? ever changed your sparkplugs?

I just changed them.

MeanMangoMan · 02-01-2011, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335iLI

I've been having this problem for a couple months now. I took my procede out so it has nothing to do with that. Im mt and when I put the car in 1st and hit the gas the car is very jerky not smooth through 1st but fine through the rest of the gears. This does not happen every time. If I come off the clutch a lil quick or I don't engage 1st perfect it seems to happen. Any ideas what it may be. Thanks guys

I have the same exact issue, I have found people with Auto and Stick with the same problem. Did you figure out what it is? I have spent months trying to figure this out!

blaze739 · 02-01-2011, 09:15 AM

mine has always felt like that. i have never brought it up to the dealer though. i just figured it was a function of a performance car on a manual tranny. but this is my first manual transmission with some power behind it so i could be wrong.

Clap135 · 02-01-2011, 09:36 AM

I had this as well, then i removed the piggyback and drove around for maybe 3-4 days and it went away. Worth a shot.

davidkotok · 02-01-2011, 09:49 AM

i have this occur occasionally as well, often when i engage not as smoothly; had them go ahead with the hpfp recall hoping that it might help it, now on my 5th

yandy · 02-01-2011, 10:48 AM

I had this, but mainly when I'm stopped and go into first into a bump on the road out of shopping center.. things like that...

MeanMangoMan · 02-01-2011, 04:29 PM

Guys this is not normal! What is causing this problem? DV's or Waste Gates?

Shellacked135i · 02-01-2011, 04:34 PM

Try putting procede back in, or use BT tool to reset adaptations.

Resetting of adaptions should always be done with removal or install of tunes.

Transport3r · 02-01-2011, 04:49 PM

It's normal, just the nature of a manual tranny as said before.
The reasons this happens is because in first gear, your engine has a much larger moment over the rear wheels than in any other gear, so if you upset the angular acceleration of any of the drivetrain components (jerk), you'll get shoved back by the sudden rise in acceleration, lifting your foot ever so slightly off the pedal, causing deceleration and you sliding forward again, causing more acceleration, etc... It's called a Pilot induced Oscillation (PIO).

My Audi TT didn't have as much power, but the gears were really short. Same thing happened.

It's much more pronounced when the engine is cold, probably (assuming here) cause it doesn't run as smoothly until it warms up. (same thing with the TT)

335iLI · 02-01-2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuo

It's normal, just the nature of a manual tranny as said before.
The reasons this happens is because in first gear, your engine has a much larger moment over the rear wheels than in any other gear, so if you upset the angular acceleration of any of the drivetrain components (jerk), you'll get shoved back by the sudden rise in acceleration, lifting your foot ever so slightly off the pedal, causing deceleration and you sliding forward again, causing more acceleration, etc... It's called a Pilot induced Oscillation (PIO).

My Audi TT didn't have as much power, but the gears were really short. Same thing happened.

It's much more pronounced when the engine is cold, probably (assuming here) cause it doesn't run as smoothly until it warms up. (same thing with the TT)

Yes your correct the reason it happens more with the procede is that your running more power. Im getting a new clutch I will let u guys know if that helps at all.

Chasen1211 · 02-01-2011, 07:16 PM

Im getting similar situation with my AT and JB4, except it happens in 2nd and 3rd. if im around crusing between 2300rpm and 3500rpm, 30%-50% and jump on the throttle(100%), it surges. Not violently, but quite noticeable. I can also read on the boost guage that it dips and bounces a bit. The timing would jump to 13-15 and drop down to about 5-7 and bounces simultaneously....

I spoke to Terry about this and he told me to send him a run file, so hopefully he can help diagnose the issue.

Clap135 · 02-01-2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuo

It's normal, just the nature of a manual tranny as said before.
The reasons this happens is because in first gear, your engine has a much larger moment over the rear wheels than in any other gear, so if you upset the angular acceleration of any of the drivetrain components (jerk), you'll get shoved back by the sudden rise in acceleration, lifting your foot ever so slightly off the pedal, causing deceleration and you sliding forward again, causing more acceleration, etc... It's called a Pilot induced Oscillation (PIO).

My Audi TT didn't have as much power, but the gears were really short. Same thing happened.

It's much more pronounced when the engine is cold, probably (assuming here) cause it doesn't run as smoothly until it warms up. (same thing with the TT)

Actually its not normal, after i drove around stock, the little buck/powerloss/gain is gone. The car is perfectly smooth starting off in 1st.

Stuart@BMRAutowerkes · 02-01-2011, 08:24 PM

Sounds like your clutch delay valve.

It's normal and if you want to get rid of it there's a DIY on here and plenty of info.

335iLI · 02-02-2011, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmroxm5

Sounds like your clutch delay valve.

It's normal and if you want to get rid of it there's a DIY on here and plenty of info.

replaced it already

MeanMangoMan · 02-03-2011, 12:41 AM

I have the same problem, I think it may be the diverter valves for the turbos... I am going to have them checked out tomorrow.

Transport3r · 02-03-2011, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clap135

Actually its not normal, after i drove around stock, the little buck/powerloss/gain is gone. The car is perfectly smooth starting off in 1st.

My car has always done it, only when i clutch out badly.
The increased power just makes it more pronounced.

01-05-2011, 11:03 PM	#1
335iLI Captain 38 Rep 634 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: NY-LI iTrader: (5)	Bucking surging 1st gear only? I've been having this problem for a couple months now. I took my procede out so it has nothing to do with that. Im mt and when I put the car in 1st and hit the gas the car is very jerky not smooth through 1st but fine through the rest of the gears. This does not happen every time. If I come off the clutch a lil quick or I don't engage 1st perfect it seems to happen. Any ideas what it may be. Thanks guys
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01-05-2011, 11:10 PM	#2
NiVeDh Major General 428 Rep 8,003 Posts Drives: '08 E90 335i, '99 E36 M3 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Houston, TX & Atlanta, GA iTrader: (132) Garage List 2008 BMW 335i Sedan [8.66]	I think that's just the nature of a manual transmission - direct connection, no torque converter to dampen anything.
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01-05-2011, 11:15 PM	#3
secretsquirrel Colonel 202 Rep 2,347 Posts Drives: f80 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Far North Dallas iTrader: (2)	how many miles? ever changed your sparkplugs?
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02-01-2011, 09:15 AM	#6
blaze739 Private First Class 23 Rep 186 Posts Drives: E92 2008 335i - AW/CR Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Yonkers, NY iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 BMW 335i [9.34]	mine has always felt like that. i have never brought it up to the dealer though. i just figured it was a function of a performance car on a manual tranny. but this is my first manual transmission with some power behind it so i could be wrong.
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02-01-2011, 09:36 AM	#7
Clap135 Brigadier General 105 Rep 3,460 Posts Drives: 2009 N54 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sticky's Mom House iTrader: (1)	I had this as well, then i removed the piggyback and drove around for maybe 3-4 days and it went away. Worth a shot.
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02-01-2011, 09:49 AM	#8
davidkotok Lieutenant 17 Rep 408 Posts Drives: e92 335i Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: ny/dc iTrader: (3)	i have this occur occasionally as well, often when i engage not as smoothly; had them go ahead with the hpfp recall hoping that it might help it, now on my 5th
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02-01-2011, 10:48 AM	#9
yandy Lieutenant Colonel 120 Rep 1,971 Posts Drives: 2009 e92 MR "Civic" ///M3 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Miami, FL iTrader: (3) Garage List 2009 BMW M3 [0.00]	I had this, but mainly when I'm stopped and go into first into a bump on the road out of shopping center.. things like that... __________________ \|\| DCT \| ESS Tune \| ACM Test-pipes \| AA Green Filter \| Swift Spec-R Springs \| Stoptech ST-40 F \|\| \|\| My Youtube Channel \|\|
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02-01-2011, 04:29 PM	#10
MeanMangoMan German Spitz 11 Rep 219 Posts Drives: 335i e92 Sport Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Draper, UT. iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 335i [10.00]	Guys this is not normal! What is causing this problem? DV's or Waste Gates? __________________ Vishnu Exhaust/JB2 Tune BMW Performance Suspension/H&R Sport Springs/Eibach Spacers/19" Black M6 Rims GP Thunder 8500k Angel Eyes/Corners/CF Emblems Lexen LED Plate Lights/Black AutoTecknic Grille
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02-01-2011, 04:34 PM	#11
Shellacked135i Banned 6 Rep 348 Posts Drives: 2010 135i, 09 335xi Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: SoFla iTrader: (1)	Try putting procede back in, or use BT tool to reset adaptations. Resetting of adaptions should always be done with removal or install of tunes.
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02-01-2011, 04:49 PM	#12
Transport3r Major 87 Rep 1,262 Posts Drives: 2011 N55 E90 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Melbourne, FL iTrader: (4)	It's normal, just the nature of a manual tranny as said before. The reasons this happens is because in first gear, your engine has a much larger moment over the rear wheels than in any other gear, so if you upset the angular acceleration of any of the drivetrain components (jerk), you'll get shoved back by the sudden rise in acceleration, lifting your foot ever so slightly off the pedal, causing deceleration and you sliding forward again, causing more acceleration, etc... It's called a Pilot induced Oscillation (PIO). My Audi TT didn't have as much power, but the gears were really short. Same thing happened. It's much more pronounced when the engine is cold, probably (assuming here) cause it doesn't run as smoothly until it warms up. (same thing with the TT) __________________ Josh-
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02-01-2011, 07:16 PM	#14
Chasen1211 DaRk LoRD oF ThE SiTh 9 Rep 154 Posts Drives: cIrCLeS-aRoUnd-You Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: sF-BaY aReA iTrader: (4)	Im getting similar situation with my AT and JB4, except it happens in 2nd and 3rd. if im around crusing between 2300rpm and 3500rpm, 30%-50% and jump on the throttle(100%), it surges. Not violently, but quite noticeable. I can also read on the boost guage that it dips and bounces a bit. The timing would jump to 13-15 and drop down to about 5-7 and bounces simultaneously.... I spoke to Terry about this and he told me to send him a run file, so hopefully he can help diagnose the issue.
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02-01-2011, 08:24 PM	#16
Stuart@BMRAutowerkes Major General 832 Rep 5,530 Posts Drives: a black car Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Sydney iTrader: (3)	Sounds like your clutch delay valve. It's normal and if you want to get rid of it there's a DIY on here and plenty of info.
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02-03-2011, 12:41 AM	#18
MeanMangoMan German Spitz 11 Rep 219 Posts Drives: 335i e92 Sport Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Draper, UT. iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 335i [10.00]	I have the same problem, I think it may be the diverter valves for the turbos... I am going to have them checked out tomorrow. __________________ Vishnu Exhaust/JB2 Tune BMW Performance Suspension/H&R Sport Springs/Eibach Spacers/19" Black M6 Rims GP Thunder 8500k Angel Eyes/Corners/CF Emblems Lexen LED Plate Lights/Black AutoTecknic Grille
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