[shifterboy45]

hope you all get this issue in check soon --

First proposition would be to find out based on EGT's the true state of the engine during the event -- if there is a quick rise (and then fall) this may be an indication of an actual event going on in the combustion chamber(s).

this is not a sole determining factor -- but just a added reference point

cheers !!

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb

Hi Alan,

I very highly doubt there is serious detonation happening. Looking at the logs the throttle is closing a little bit too much. It's possible your car is just on the positive side of being very responsive, maybe just a little more than our shop car. We can certainly tone down the WGDC in that area if you want to get me some good logs.

If you would like to stay on the safe side, we will be releasing much more intensive logging abilities in the next month.

Cheers,
Rob

Thanks for the explanation Rob.

Do you think there is a possibility that Cobb releases two version of the 91/93 octane maps for cars with different waste gate variance? Since there is such a wide range of cars out there ranging from 07 to 2010 MY i'm sure each car will behave slightly different with different mileage and such. I was under the impression that throttle closure is normal with the Cobb tune to control boost but now it seems like thats not entirely true? I think we either need different maps catering to a variety of cars/conditions or do you think Cobb will ever look into a different method of boost control?

What is the ETA on the new maps coming out as well as the new logging capabilities?

I just switched back to the 93 octane map and did alittle driving afterwards. Wasn't able to really get on it but the car feels good. Power difference between the 91octane map and 93 is significant. I'll try to get some more logs with this map and hopefully no more ignition glow codes. I'm also going to try to use up as much of the gas in my tank as possible before refueling just in case i got bad gas.

Thanks,
Alan

[Proper Motion LLC]

In similar weather conditions I see about 2 psi more on 93 octane map

[SennaZ]

Alan, I was thinking it might also be interesting to see what the data logs look with say 97+ octane gas. Just curious if the wastegate control would take over and minimize the need for throttle closure at what should be slightly higher boost levels.

[mithiral67]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

Do you think there is a possibility that Cobb releases two version of the 91/93 octane maps for cars with different waste gate variance? Since there is such a wide range of cars out there ranging from 07 to 2010 MY i'm sure each car will behave slightly different with different mileage and such.

Everyone needs to remember that the OTS maps are the least refined options that Cobb will provide for our cars. Given time, there will be three better options to provide more and more refined maps specific to your car.

Remove tuning http://cobbtuning.com/info/?id=4873 by cobb.
Self tuning http://cobbtuning.com/info/?id=4871 for the experts
Dyno tuned http://cobbtuning.com/info/?id=4872 by an expert

[ianthegreat]

Originally Posted by OneThreeFive

I agree. I was under the impression that the Cobb would handle full code scanning/clearing and data logging at a higher rate then the BT. The only reason to get a BT was for the misc functions like service interval resets. Looks like I should add a BT cable back into my planned mod list. At least for the added peace of mind.

A glow ignition code is no indication of tune.

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

Everyone needs to remember that the OTS maps are the least refined options that Cobb will provide for our cars. Given time, there will be three better options to provide more and more refined maps specific to your car.

Remove tuning http://cobbtuning.com/info/?id=4873 by cobb.
Self tuning http://cobbtuning.com/info/?id=4871 for the experts
Dyno tuned http://cobbtuning.com/info/?id=4872 by an expert

While i do agree with this (use to have a protuned Saab 92x) I still think its on cobb to provide a safe basic map that works as intended (no throttle closures or less of it) for cars with different boosting characteristics. I know they did this for the wrx community.

Alan

[dzenno]

This is a good example why OTS flash tunes on this car will be hard to get right. Hardware variances between cars, even with the same ROM versions, will inevitably make this approach inadequate. When COBB comes out with ATP and ATR then it'll be full game on as every single parameter will be available for tuning. However, its great to see COBB guys helping at the individual level as well.

[mithiral67]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

While i do agree with this (use to have a protuned Saab 92x) I still think its on cobb to provide a safe basic map that works as intended (no throttle closures or less of it) for cars with different boosting characteristics. I know they did this for the wrx community.

Alan

Correct me if I am wrong, the use of throttle closure is inherent to the ecu and can't be stopped unless you have a proper mapping that does not push the boost to require it.

And, for me ( and others on these forums) when I ran the stock ots map on a stock car, the car didnt over shoot boost and was not required to use throttle closure to correct anything.

Now that I have stage 2 mods, I am seeing throttle closure to control over boost because I am using a stage 1 tune on a stage 2 car, something cobb warns against for this exact reason.

So I am hard pressed to say anything to cobb about the stage 1 not being safe or not doing what its designed to do.

[SennaZ]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

Now that I have stage 2 mods, I am seeing throttle closure to control over boost because I am using a stage 1 tune on a stage 2 car, something cobb warns against for this exact reason.

Did you post your datalog with the TCs? Would be nice to see a comparison of the before/after.

[mithiral67]

Here are before and after helix fmic and AR dps.

I never did anything other than 3rd gear pulls from 55mph and up for logs as stock. I did review every log I ran while stock (about a dozen pulls) and only noted very small closures (78-79) at the start of pulls, never any major closures. This makes me think that the ots map was about spot on for my stock car.

The first one is pre-mods in third gear and the second is fourth gear after mods.

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

Correct me if I am wrong, the use of throttle closure is inherent to the ecu and can't be stopped unless you have a proper mapping that does not push the boost to require it.

And, for me ( and others on these forums) when I ran the stock ots map on a stock car, the car didnt over shoot boost and was not required to use throttle closure to correct anything.

Now that I have stage 2 mods, I am seeing throttle closure to control over boost because I am using a stage 1 tune on a stage 2 car, something cobb warns against for this exact reason.

So I am hard pressed to say anything to cobb about the stage 1 not being safe or not doing what its designed to do.

Not saying that the current OTS maps aren't safe but seems like this one map approach isn't broad enough to factor in WG differences from car to car. Perfect example would be your car running FBO on the stage 1 map with throttle closures while I believe Claps car is also running the same thing and doesn't show any throttle closures on his logs.

Alan

[SennaZ]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

Here are before and after helix fmic and AR dps.

Can't tell what your WGDC is from the plot but the pre-FBO certainly has alot more WG "activity." Also interesting that your throttle closure appears to occur at the VANOS changeover rpm.

[mithiral67]

Originally Posted by SennaZ

Can't tell what your WGDC is from the plot but the pre-FBO certainly has alot more WG "activity." Also interesting that your throttle closure appears to occur at the VANOS changeover rpm.

Its WG % times 100 on the right. The average for 2nd through 4th on FOB is around 41.8% and for just third gear pull of around 42.8%.

[SennaZ]

OK.

Mine run about the same or slightly higher, whereas Alan's average around 35%.

[Alan l.]

How do you translate the WGDC%? higher/lower number = ?

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by ianthegreat

A glow ignition code is no indication of tune.

Glow ignition from what I understand is indicative of knocking which is bad especially on a turbo car. The factors that cause this has been discussed at length but tune is definitely a major factor

[gboop]

Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb

We don't currently read other modules or shadow codes at the moment. However we do clear all modules codes and shadow codes. In reference to taking the car to the dealer it will be a non-issue.

Cheers,
Rob

Rob. When I was troubleshooting my AP misfire problem I tried my shelved SSTT and I think IT threw the standard 2D25 mass airflow tuner detection shadow code.

The AP actually displayed this code today. Do some shadow codes get read and others don't?

Have the BT Tool as backup, but just curious.