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[baron62]

Just bought a CPO e90 and the wheel bolts are very tight. I have a breaker bar with an extention but I don't want to snap them off. Any tips on getting the bolts out without breaking them?

Each wheel has the locking bolt key which is already stripping the key a bit. I sprayed wd-40 to help. I'm thinking about having my son tap the breaker bar while I apply torque. Shouldn't these be around 80 ft-lbs? I would never get these off on the side of the road.

[Express]

heat, impact gun, heat, breaker bar.

if you break them, blame the dealer.

90 ft lbs is standard

[Alexm007]

beeeee careful, and make sure the threads are DRY on whatever bolts you put back, you certainly do not want to bring a lubricated bolt to 80 ft-lbf.

Try liquid wrench, or other penetrating lubricant? just my .02

[Tee212]

Breaker bar would be your best bet. If they are stripped or stripping now then replace them with new bolts NOW. Its much better to resolve the issue now since youre at home vs being stuck somewhere with a flat. Yes 80ft would be within specs.

[montr]

Yes, it should be torqued around 80 ft-lbs. If it is a CPO, I would go to the dealer and ask them to retorque the bolts. It should be easier to remove the bolts using an impact wrench.

[baron62]

Originally Posted by express705

heat, impact gun, heat, breaker bar.

if you break them, blame the dealer.

90 ft lbs is standard

I was thinking about heat as I do this with lug nuts. Wouldn't the lug bolts expand with heat and get tighter?

[baron62]

Originally Posted by Alexm007

beeeee careful, and make sure the threads are DRY on whatever bolts you put back, you certainly do not want to bring a lubricated bolt to 80 ft-lbf.

Try liquid wrench, or other penetrating lubricant? just my .02

Why dry? I have always used anti-sieze on my wheel lugs and they a come off nicely. I plan on using the antisieze again.

[baron62]

Originally Posted by montr

Yes, it should be torqued around 80 ft-lbs. If it is a CPO, I would go to the dealer and ask them to retorque the bolts. It should be easier to remove the bolts using an impact wrench.

The car is actually in the 4 year warranty. I think I'm going to bring it to the dealer and let them take the risk of breaking the bolts. It is a pain to go to the dealer because someone overtightened the lugs, but I need to be able to get these wheels off in an emergency.

[Alexm007]

Originally Posted by baron62

Why dry? I have always used anti-sieze on my wheel lugs and they a come off nicely. I plan on using the antisieze again.

Typically, bolt torques are specified dry, because that is a condition that is repeatable from one installation to another. Threads work using friction, without friction, bolts would unscrew themselves with the slightest tug (one of many practical problems that arise from lack of friction).

Let me give you an example pertaining to these lug nuts...

Case #1
Pancho hand tightens a lug nut as much as possible, then using an NIST traceable, calibrated torque wrench, adds another 1/2 turn, to get to the desired 80 ft-lbf. There is a certain level of bolt stretch associated with this 1/2 turn, which is related to the thread pitch (threads per inch).

Case #2
Helena slathers lubricant on her threads, and hand tightens the lug nut as much as possible. Since the threads are lubed up, when she goes to use the torque wrench, the lube allows her to get a full 1.5 turns in, before reaching 80 ft-lbf (Thanks lube!). The bolts are at the SAME TORQUE, but the lube has changed the stretching load of the bolt, stressing it out more, potentially yielding the material, weakening it.

This is why we torque bolts dry.
Anti-sieze seems to be used by many on their lug nuts, and I can't produce evidence that it is harmful, but I can tell you that LUBRICANT can cause over-tightening, and I will avoid applying any compounds to my bolts. Unless you know for a fact that it is safe, I would advise against it.

[W.WCherry]

Sounds like you decided to take it to the dealership, but I would recommend PB Blaster.

[Express]

best post on this forum hahhahahha

[fdriller9]

Get one of those cross bar looking wrenches with a 17mm socket on it. Those always helped me in these situations.

[chi123]

Bringing it to your dealer is the best bet and complain about it. My lugs were overtightened with an impact wrench and I couldn't get them loose. I just brought it to a local tire shop and paid them 10 bucks to loosen them and torque it back to specs.

[VMRWheels]

OP,

Once you remove the lug bolts and torque them again, 88ft. lbs. is the recommended BMW Torque setting.

-Charles@VMRWheels

[baron62]

I brought the car back to the dealer and they re-torqued the wheels for me. They said it took 1.5 hours and the mechanic broke a tool doing the job. Probably a socket or the key for the locking bolt. The service department stated they will be charging the sales department for the work. Glad they can be taken off now.

[VMRWheels]

Originally Posted by baron62

I brought the car back to the dealer and they re-torqued the wheels for me. They said it took 1.5 hours and the mechanic broke a tool doing the job. Probably a socket or the key for the locking bolt. The service department stated they will be charging the sales department for the work. Glad they can be taken off now.

Glad you got this taken care of. I only trust torquing my own wheels.

-Charles@VMRWheels

[Gary@TireRack]

Originally Posted by Alexm007

Typically, bolt torques are specified dry, because that is a condition that is repeatable from one installation to another. Threads work using friction, without friction, bolts would unscrew themselves with the slightest tug (one of many practical problems that arise from lack of friction).

Let me give you an example pertaining to these lug nuts...

Case #1
Pancho hand tightens a lug nut as much as possible, then using an NIST traceable, calibrated torque wrench, adds another 1/2 turn, to get to the desired 80 ft-lbf. There is a certain level of bolt stretch associated with this 1/2 turn, which is related to the thread pitch (threads per inch).

Case #2
Helena slathers lubricant on her threads, and hand tightens the lug nut as much as possible. Since the threads are lubed up, when she goes to use the torque wrench, the lube allows her to get a full 1.5 turns in, before reaching 80 ft-lbf (Thanks lube!). The bolts are at the SAME TORQUE, but the lube has changed the stretching load of the bolt, stressing it out more, potentially yielding the material, weakening it.

This is why we torque bolts dry.
Anti-sieze seems to be used by many on their lug nuts, and I can't produce evidence that it is harmful, but I can tell you that LUBRICANT can cause over-tightening, and I will avoid applying any compounds to my bolts. Unless you know for a fact that it is safe, I would advise against it.

+1 great explanation.

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by Alexm007

Typically, bolt torques are specified dry, because that is a condition that is repeatable from one installation to another. Threads work using friction, without friction, bolts would unscrew themselves with the slightest tug (one of many practical problems that arise from lack of friction).

Let me give you an example pertaining to these lug nuts...

Case #1
Pancho hand tightens a lug nut as much as possible, then using an NIST traceable, calibrated torque wrench, adds another 1/2 turn, to get to the desired 80 ft-lbf. There is a certain level of bolt stretch associated with this 1/2 turn, which is related to the thread pitch (threads per inch).

Case #2
Helena slathers lubricant on her threads, and hand tightens the lug nut as much as possible. Since the threads are lubed up, when she goes to use the torque wrench, the lube allows her to get a full 1.5 turns in, before reaching 80 ft-lbf (Thanks lube!). The bolts are at the SAME TORQUE, but the lube has changed the stretching load of the bolt, stressing it out more, potentially yielding the material, weakening it.

This is why we torque bolts dry.
Anti-sieze seems to be used by many on their lug nuts, and I can't produce evidence that it is harmful, but I can tell you that LUBRICANT can cause over-tightening, and I will avoid applying any compounds to my bolts. Unless you know for a fact that it is safe, I would advise against it.

It depends on the application but, it's rare that we torque a bolt dry at my work. ARP recommends using a lubricant on pretty much every fastener they make. They seem more concerned about the opposite of what you are saying, that by not using a lube you are not achieving the proper bolt stretch due to the friction giving you a falsely low torque.

However, they do also state that using an ultra slick lubricant like anti-seize could yield the bolt like you were saying. Here is their perspective on it:
http://arp-bolts.com/pages/technical_installation.shtml

I'm sure it's something that can be debated till the end of time. I think there is enough safety margin designed into the parts you are fine either way.