[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Fernflex

I have friend with stock car and problems with the wastegate rattle that why Bmw open a bulletin, is true that tuned car have more chance of damaging a turbo.

BMW's solution to the wastegate rattle was to reprogram the ecu. They went though a lot of versions. Just look at what happened to this 2007 after a COBB reflash:

No rattle before the flash, but once flashed, it rattles.

In order to gather any type of statistical information, you have to separate this into two categories

1. Pre '08 turbos w/ tune, and have issues
2. Pre '08 turbos w/o tune, and have issues.

People without tune and have turbo issues are a very low percentage. When compared to the other years, i doubt you will see these issues being more than any other production year.

[Jake@MOTIV]

All the reflash from BMW did was command the wastegates to shut at decel (after you rev and you hear the rpms drop is when the rattle occurs). It didn't fix the problem - just hid it.

[droptop335]

So how exactly does one detect a wastegate rattle? Is it really obvious? What does it sound like (other than a "rattle")? Does it occur on acceleration or on decel? I floored my 07 a few days ago and heard a rattle as I got above 6k rpm, but it sounded more like it was coming from the back of the car (e.g. muffler rattle) than the front...

[blacknbean]

just rev in neutral or park. the rattle occurs on the decel, very obvious that its not a normal engine sound. i think all turbos up into the newest version in 09 are suseptible. bmw did try to mask it with software updates tho to save them money instead of warrantying all the pre 09 turbos

[jzepeda]

07, build 10/06 stock turbos replaced with 42,000 miles. 2 weeks before my 4 year warranty expired. Dinan tuned since 14,000 miles. the tech said turbos looked ok but they needed to replace the wastegate's, they just ended up replacing both turbo units. also Dinan was involved in the warranty process. BMW paid, Dinan made the call to them in my behalf.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by jzepeda

07, build 10/06 stock turbos replaced with 42,000 miles. 2 weeks before my 4 year warranty expired. Dinan tuned since 14,000 miles. the tech said turbos looked ok but they needed to replace the wastegate's, they just ended up replacing both turbo units. also Dinan was involved in the warranty process. BMW paid, Dinan made the call to them in my behalf.

......and folks on here want us to believe that tunes don't do anything to the turbos........right?

[///M3THOD]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

......and folks on here want us to believe that tunes don't do anything to the turbos........right?

Tunes don't do anything to the turbo's as long as your not pushing them past compressor efficiencies. Your still asking them to operate within their designed parameters.

Adding FMIC's and catless downpipes actually eases turbo abuse with all else being equal.

The damage comes when your really pushing the turbo's without supporting mods.

As far as wastegate issues, they really do not have much to do with the tune at all.. they are just poorly designed/executed. I don't think anyone is going to sit here and argue that our turbo's have turned out to be as reliable and problem free as BMW would have hoped when designing the car.

Just my opinion.

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by ///M3THOD

Tunes don't do anything to the turbo's as long as your not pushing them past compressor efficiencies. Your still asking them to operate within their designed parameters.

I haven't read through this thread, but to say a tune doesn't work the turbos harder is crap. Of course if you are pushing more air the turbos are being worked more, spinning faster, creating more heat. Even if a turbo has similar efficiency to stock it's still spinning faster. Efficiency is the relationship of pressure versus heat... more air more heat period. But I do think this is minor.

Originally Posted by ///M3THOD

Adding FMIC's and catless downpipes actually eases turbo abuse with all else being equal.

Only if you keep the same power, but I don't think this is the goal of most modders. Increase power you increase abuse. I think we've had this discussion before.

Originally Posted by ///M3THOD

The damage comes when your really pushing the turbo's without supporting mods.

Turbos don't care what mods you have... The more air you are pushing the less efficient our turbos beyond the mid-range, which is what matters... unless you never go past 5,000rpm

Originally Posted by ///M3THOD

As far as wastegate issues, they really do not have much to do with the tune at all.. they are just poorly designed/executed. I don't think anyone is going to sit here and argue that our turbo's have turned out to be as reliable and problem free as BMW would have hoped when designing the car.

^I do agree here

Also when speaking efficiency we are talking only about the compressor side... the turbine is spinning faster and I don't know the specifics but it is a more negative situation then stock pressures when tuned.

Again I think higher pressures has a minor effect as long as it's reasonable.

[///M3THOD]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

I haven't read through this thread, but to say a tune doesn't work the turbos harder is crap. Of course if you are pushing more air the turbos are being worked more, spinning faster, creating more heat. Even if a turbo has similar efficiency to stock it's still spinning faster. Efficiency is the relationship of pressure versus heat... more air more heat period. But I do think this is minor.

Only if you keep the same power, but I don't think this is the goal of most modders. Increase power you increase abuse. I think we've had this discussion before.

Turbos don't care what mods you have... The more air you are pushing the less efficient our turbos beyond the mid-range, which is what matters... unless you never go past 5,000rpm

I agree that turning up boost will ask the turbo's harder.. but what I am saying is that if it falls within reasonable specs of the compressor map, your not asking the turbo to do something it was not designed, or capable of doing. We are in agreement on this I believe.

Yes, most people do not solely mod to keep stock power levels, but "power level" is an ambiguous term. You are gaining power by simply bolting on the new parts, your not asking the turbo to work any harder(at the same target pressure), rather just more efficiently.

Targeting a higher psi than the stock without optimizing the turbo outlet paths ask the turbo's to work harder, hotter, and less efficient than making the same request with supporting mods. I'm just saying if your concerned with reliablity don't flash or install software on your car without any supporting mods and target 15psi for daily driving.

[achien]

01/07 production.

Touch wood!

No HPFP, turbo, or wastegate issues so far.

[335i101]

07' (06' build) no problems...u have to remember people don't write posts that "My car runs good." You only hear when they do have problems....

[M340i Pride]

08/2007 model here. never had a problem.

[///M3THOD]

I don't understand why people sit here and defend BMW like its their retarded third cousin. No one is saying BMW is shit.. they have just overlooked a few things in their history.

Right now we have roughly 41% of people who have replaced.. ..yes, replaced their turbos. For many people thats out of warranty, and after BMW's band-aid fixs that do approximtely shit. That percentage alone speaks volumes that there were issues with the Mitsu turbos from day one. Just because some of you are the lucky f--ks who didn't have to do any work, doesn't mean that BMW isn't completely taking advantage of this. Its like saying "I never had a problem with my HPFP.. I don't know what all the fuss us about".. there issues with our HPFP, as well as issues with our turbo's... the simple existence of this poll is enough to verify that.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by ///M3THOD

I don't understand why people sit here and defend BMW like its their retarded third cousin. No one is saying BMW is shit.. they have just overlooked a few things in their history.

Right now we have roughly 41% of people who have replaced.. ..yes, replaced their turbos. For many people thats out of warranty, and after BMW's band-aid fixs that do approximtely shit. That percentage alone speaks volumes that there were issues with the Mitsu turbos from day one. Just because some of you are the lucky f--ks who didn't have to do any work, doesn't mean that BMW isn't completely taking advantage of this. Its like saying "I never had a problem with my HPFP.. I don't know what all the fuss us about".. there issues with our HPFP, as well as issues with our turbo's... the simple existence of this poll is enough to verify that.

wait, wait, slow down guy. I mean, whats wrong with you? We all are interested in looking at whats happening here. I'm not a "lucky F**k". I am a very early build '07, and I have given my turbos more hell that your worst nightmare, at numerous track events. I'm now at approximately 100,000 miles, and ZERO issues. I kept my boost level 100% stock. Its only now that I'm ready to tune this "factory freak", as she's begging me for more abuse. I have SOLID turbos, good as the day they made them. This is a very complex issue, because a lot of these cats in here were running around with higher than factory boost from the word go. While BMW made some changes to the design of the turbos over the years (stronger actuators?), it still doesn't mean that the number of bad early build turbos is statistically significant.

[///M3THOD]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

wait, wait, slow down guy. I mean, whats wrong with you? We all are interested in looking at whats happening here. I'm not a "lucky F**k". I am a very early build '07, and I have given my turbos more hell that your worst nightmare, at numerous track events. I'm now at approximately 100,000 miles, and ZERO issues. I kept my boost level 100% stock. Its only now that I'm ready to tune this "factory freak", as she's begging me for more abuse. I have SOLID turbos, good as the day they made them. This is a very complex issue, because a lot of these cats in here were running around with higher than factory boost from the word go. While BMW made some changes to the design of the turbos over the years (stronger actuators?), it still doesn't mean that the number of bad early build turbos is statistically significant.

Lol.. dude I am not targeting anyone.. and I may have gotten a little carried away, but what your describing is exactly what I am talking about.

Our cars have turbo issues. I don't think that anyone can argue against that with a straight face. From the poll numbers already I think this is evident.

How can you say that the early build turbos are statistically significant. Look at how many SB's, wastegate fixes, etc. there have been to address the issues.

[akotten]

Originally Posted by dyezak

Mitsubishi 13b turbos are not new...not by any stetch of the imagination. Mitsubishi has been manufacturing and using these turbos in high end sports cars since 1991. These are the same turbos on the 3000gt VRT Twin Turbo V6 that started to appear in 1991.

You think that after 15 years of making these turbos Mitsubishi just started fucking up on them in 2006/2007?

Sorry, but you are not correct about the 3000GT. The VR4 used a MHI 9b in the US and a 13G in the euro spec cars. Close, but not the same compressor/turbine wheels.

[Paul Stig]

Wow, most people are no problem. I can encourage me that I just have bad luck, 335 is sitll a good car.

[thwgw24]

I had wastegate rattle on my bank 1 turbo. Problem solved with the Procede wastegate position adjustment.

[caradd]

Originally Posted by FlyLow335i

All the reflash from BMW did was command the wastegates to shut at decel (after you rev and you hear the rpms drop is when the rattle occurs). It didn't fix the problem - just hid it.

Actually the reflash tells the wastegates to open so that they don't rattle at idle. After about 45 seconds of warm up you hear the noise go away.

You hear them rattle at decel because they are shut but not tight enough, like when accel under boost.

I had my turbos, wastegates/acts, replaced under CPO warranty. No more noise, though when the car is hot I hear a slight rattle when accelerating probably something else.

[Quisp]

Supposedly the orignal propblem which started the ongoing mess was a wastegate rattle. To solve this BMW came out with various software revisions including the infamous 29.2. If you look at how many versions of the software came out during that period of time that were meant to address the rattle, you would realize that is a bunch of shit. There is no way that BMW would spend that much time and manpower rewrting software to fix a rattle(which we were later told to live with).
A deeper look into what was going on at the time would show that the first fuel pump complaints were begin filed with the NHTSA just a few months prior to the software release. The new software was installed in every car that went in for any typ e of service without the owners knowledge or consent. this is when the great lag revolt started. The software created lag and also rediced the stress on the fuel pump and turbos thereby increasing their lifespan hopefullly past the warranty period. That is why BMW stalled so many times with a fix that was coming but at the same time would say their is no preoblem. How can a fix be coing for something that does not exist. BMW later acknowledged the lag and then extended the warranty on the fuel pumps. The trubos have been known to fail oni tined and non tuned cars. The tune wear the turbo out sooner than if it were not tuned, but either way the turbos are not as reliable as they shouldbe. Muchlike the fuel pumps, they went with somethig that met the requirements but did not gie it enough hard long term testing to see what wouldhappen. the N54 was pushed through too fast and the results of this are the many problems that seem to plague a large number of the cars. Lete us not forget the change from MSD80 MSD 81 in 2008. This is partof a pattern that BMWhas been goig with, fixing a hardware problem with software. Unfortunately, in most case the software fix only masks or temporarily hides the problem because the hardware was still the same.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by Quisp

Supposedly the orignal propblem which started the ongoing mess was a wastegate rattle. To solve this BMW came out with various software revisions including the infamous 29.2. If you look at how many versions of the software came out during that period of time that were meant to address the rattle, you would realize that is a bunch of shit. There is no way that BMW would spend that much time and manpower rewrting software to fix a rattle(which we were later told to live with).
A deeper look into what was going on at the time would show that the first fuel pump complaints were begin filed with the NHTSA just a few months prior to the software release. The new software was installed in every car that went in for any typ e of service without the owners knowledge or consent. this is when the great lag revolt started. The software created lag and also rediced the stress on the fuel pump and turbos thereby increasing their lifespan hopefullly past the warranty period. That is why BMW stalled so many times with a fix that was coming but at the same time would say their is no preoblem. How can a fix be coing for something that does not exist. BMW later acknowledged the lag and then extended the warranty on the fuel pumps. The trubos have been known to fail oni tined and non tuned cars. The tune wear the turbo out sooner than if it were not tuned, but either way the turbos are not as reliable as they shouldbe. Muchlike the fuel pumps, they went with somethig that met the requirements but did not gie it enough hard long term testing to see what wouldhappen. the N54 was pushed through too fast and the results of this are the many problems that seem to plague a large number of the cars. Lete us not forget the change from MSD80 MSD 81 in 2008. This is partof a pattern that BMWhas been goig with, fixing a hardware problem with software. Unfortunately, in most case the software fix only masks or temporarily hides the problem because the hardware was still the same.

paragraphing, proof reading, spell check, and grammar check, are all your friends.

[Quisp]

I will keep that in mind next time I am submitting something for my composition class, until then deal with it. I did not have my glasses and i was tired.
I am sure that there have been some typos and grammatical mistakes in your past.