[v7seb]

hi all they sent me another unit out i tried it and still didnt work i rung them and they told me to bring my car to them i took it to them they changed power lead on it and it worked straight away they wacked it on full wack on power and told me it will be fine now, i am so impressed with it its so smooth but plenty of power i would advise any1 with 320d to get 1 its a must have .

[gr4z]

How quickly did you get yours? I have been waiting 8 days now and still no delivery.

<edit> just got delivered
Anyone got recommendations of where in the engine bay to mount the box? Thanks

[gr4z]

OK I have mouted the box down on the right and turned over the engine. Nothing much happens in the 60s calibration period. Don't know if it worked!
Pics if its any use. You can see the box on the 2nd picture on the right in the protective covering.

[matjam]

Hi guys,

Just want to get some things clear about tuning boxes and re-maps, as I have read many posts on this website and to clarify that there are a variety of tuning boxes and re-maps out there and generally work in several different methods.

I'm not going to be biased and not state any brand names but you can make your own assumptions!!

Cheaper tuning boxes and ones often found on ebay range from £5.00 upwards, these work on the older models and plug into the cold sensor. The analogue signal is adjusted going back to a input to the ECU and basically telling the original ECU that the car is 'cold' all the time so running like a choke system, they have marginal increase but long term affects (who knows!!)

Medium (can be expensive too) priced tuning boxes (yes the ones that plug onto the common rail fuel pressure sensor).
These system can be analogue/digital can be adjusted to give power at different rpm's etc etc, BUT.... they are only doing one thing reducing the output voltage of the common rail fuel pressure sensor (generally between 0.5v - 5volts) which sends a fudged signal back to the ECU (working on inputs of ECU) with a lower voltage than standard going back to the ECU in turn the ECU increases the common rail fuel pressure. They work well on most engines, long term if the common rail pressure is increased then obviously there is more strain put on different parts of the engine. Dont be fooled by all the so called manufacturers, there are only a few out there and none what i know of are actually in the UK. Many companies import, put there stamp on the product or change the colour of it then say they manufacturer it!!!!

Medium to expensive tuning boxes, these systems plug directly onto the injectors taken the signal from the ECU (working on outputs of ECU) modify the data going to the injector, in basic terms they lengthen the duration of the injector. No extra strain is put on any parts of the injection system so long term would have no effect on long term reliability. No requirement is needed to adjust the timing of the original ECU.

As with all the systems if you create a bigger bang (so to speak) the the turbo boost pressure would increase by a small amount.

Re-maps, I do not know of any developers in the UK. Most companies in UK by maps from a developers generally in Europe somewhere. They can adjust the maps (if they know what they are doing, but this can be a dangerous game if they dont!!!). There many fly-by-knights who have jumped on band wagon and offer re-map for stupid prices, just ask one question what happens if something goes wrong, bet you wont be able to find them then. There are many respectable companies out there that have premises and re-map your vehicle, again I'd be suprised if they do it from there knowledge. Re-maps can adjust many different data's in the ECU but most dont, most say they do but do they actually???? how would you know what they do as its only some data (numbers uauslly!!!).
BMW re-maps often have the problem if you take your car for a service at a BMW dealer, and its due for a ECU update then it would wipe any re-map from the system. (Fact).
Also many say they cant be viewed by the diagnostic computer this is true if they have encrypted/locked the data, but the the diagnostic computer then generally cant read the data!

As with all of the systems, they have pro's and con's. so it's best to make your own decision. what I hav wrote is of my opinion.

Now for the honesty bit, I work for a manufacture of tuning products but I'm not going to promote our products on here as I think forums should be used as expressing your opinions not advertising.
(our product is used by a BMW tuner in Germany beginning with AC blah blah) but they sell it with there own sticker on it!!!

Well I hope my information is helpful and dont mind anyone to comment, please dont be abusive!!!!! LOL.

[gIzzE]

Hi Matt,

Welcome to the forum.

Another Norfolkian too!!

[Carrera RSR]

Originally Posted by matjam

Hi guys,

Just want to get some things clear about tuning boxes and re-maps, as I have read many posts on this website and to clarify that there are a variety of tuning boxes and re-maps out there and generally work in several different methods.

I'm not going to be biased and not state any brand names but you can make your own assumptions!!

Cheaper tuning boxes and ones often found on ebay range from £5.00 upwards, these work on the older models and plug into the cold sensor. The analogue signal is adjusted going back to a input to the ECU and basically telling the original ECU that the car is 'cold' all the time so running like a choke system, they have marginal increase but long term affects (who knows!!)

Medium (can be expensive too) priced tuning boxes (yes the ones that plug onto the common rail fuel pressure sensor).
These system can be analogue/digital can be adjusted to give power at different rpm's etc etc, BUT.... they are only doing one thing reducing the output voltage of the common rail fuel pressure sensor (generally between 0.5v - 5volts) which sends a fudged signal back to the ECU (working on inputs of ECU) with a lower voltage than standard going back to the ECU in turn the ECU increases the common rail fuel pressure. They work well on most engines, long term if the common rail pressure is increased then obviously there is more strain put on different parts of the engine. Dont be fooled by all the so called manufacturers, there are only a few out there and none what i know of are actually in the UK. Many companies import, put there stamp on the product or change the colour of it then say they manufacturer it!!!!

Medium to expensive tuning boxes, these systems plug directly onto the injectors taken the signal from the ECU (working on outputs of ECU) modify the data going to the injector, in basic terms they lengthen the duration of the injector. No extra strain is put on any parts of the injection system so long term would have no effect on long term reliability. No requirement is needed to adjust the timing of the original ECU.

As with all the systems if you create a bigger bang (so to speak) the the turbo boost pressure would increase by a small amount.

Re-maps, I do not know of any developers in the UK. Most companies in UK by maps from a developers generally in Europe somewhere. They can adjust the maps (if they know what they are doing, but this can be a dangerous game if they dont!!!). There many fly-by-knights who have jumped on band wagon and offer re-map for stupid prices, just ask one question what happens if something goes wrong, bet you wont be able to find them then. There are many respectable companies out there that have premises and re-map your vehicle, again I'd be suprised if they do it from there knowledge. Re-maps can adjust many different data's in the ECU but most dont, most say they do but do they actually???? how would you know what they do as its only some data (numbers uauslly!!!).
BMW re-maps often have the problem if you take your car for a service at a BMW dealer, and its due for a ECU update then it would wipe any re-map from the system. (Fact).
Also many say they cant be viewed by the diagnostic computer this is true if they have encrypted/locked the data, but the the diagnostic computer then generally cant read the data!

As with all of the systems, they have pro's and con's. so it's best to make your own decision. what I hav wrote is of my opinion.

Now for the honesty bit, I work for a manufacture of tuning products but I'm not going to promote our products on here as I think forums should be used as expressing your opinions not advertising.
(our product is used by a BMW tuner in Germany beginning with AC blah blah) but they sell it with there own sticker on it!!!

Well I hope my information is helpful and dont mind anyone to comment, please dont be abusive!!!!! LOL.

Have you seen the price of ACS engine tuning!!!!!!

[Ti Rich]

Originally Posted by matjam

Dont be fooled by all the so called manufacturers, there are only a few out there and none what i know of are actually in the UK. Many companies import, put there stamp on the product or change the colour of it then say they manufacturer it!!!!

There is at least one UK manufacture of tuning boxes. This compnay makes, and set's them up here is the UK. I have used these on my previous car for two years to very good effect:-

http://tuning-diesels.com

or the new improved version with a faster processor

http://www.turbotune.uk.com/

THis would be classed as a medium system used the definitions above but the system has full digital control and is selectable for torque and power.

Also if BMW can tell if a tuning box has been fitted i assume this is done by reading the fault codes. If the fault codes are cleared can they still tell?

[matjam]

Hi, thanks for your information and would be very interested to see there manufacturing plant !!! I read there website and for a manufacturer there website needs updating but nevermind that as anyone can make a flashy website. Basically they say they can update firmware or maps of the tuning boxes they dont mention putting the technology together, i.e producing the circuitry, developing the tuning files etc etc. I would be very suprised if they make them and by there limited application list, most listed can be tuned very easily very simple technology!

Digital control, ok they use 0/1 instead of the older analogue signals, yes alot faster processing times but this would be required for later injection system technology, using the older analogue signals would probably see many warning lights 'on' as the ECU can pick up other signals quicker.
Basically all the box is doing is changing the voltage from the common rail fuel pressure to the ECU this could be done at diffferent revs by altering the signal from this sensor to the ECU which changing the fuel pressure. For instance, if at half throttle the ECU is reading 2.5volts the ECU then changes pressure of rail by 'x' amount. By adjusting this and changing the voltage, the ECU then adjusts the rail pressure higher or lower according to what is required, higher pressure means when injector opens there is a higher force of pressure behind it and squirts more fuel in. This gives the more power and torque. So by selecting diffrent settings its just changing this voltage at different rpm's.

The problem that many people miss is the fact the the original ECU does store information, it can read out what voltage various components are at when other sensors are picking up and recording data. I.e when you are producing more power the boost pressure naturally increases and this then is recorded. So the manufacturer could see that the voltage of the CRFPS was at 'x' when the boost pressure, exhaust temp etc etc was at 'x'. Even though all cars are different they know the normality and know what data ranges should be read at.
To be honest I would not worry about this unless a major component failure, most dealers would do the warranty work without going that far. Things maybe different if they had a 2month old 335d suddenly have major component failure etc as then the maunfacturer technicians (not dealers but the manufacturer) would be called in to investigate. If they could prove you have modified the car then warranty would be void (they would have to prove it though!).

Has anyone said about the 'Sports buttons' these do not increase power and just for information incase anyone doesnt know, it changes the position of the throttle by shortening it electronically. Full throttle would be 3 quarter throttle by adjusting the voltage at the throttle potentiometer quite simple to do, we could do this by a box if required!!!
(not as if anyone would want it though..lol)

Again I'm talking to much, all the above information is of my own opinion with no companies names mentioned or implied apart from the obvious!!!!

[Budgie]

Gone all highly technical this thread lol....lucky i did the plug and play thing lol....before it got like this

[matjam]

Sorry everyone, got my techy head on.... I will chill now and enjoy reading other posts...

[Ti Rich]

Hi Matjam

That company DOES manufacture there own units. There box was originally developed for the Rover 75/MG ZT CDTi which uses a modified version of the BMW M47 engine (136BHP version). I was one of the "test pilots" that helped them develop the "maps" for the tuning box. Since 1000's of boxes have been sold for this, and the BMW, version of this engine under there money back gaurantee. I am not saying this is better than a remap (although on this engine it produced 20BHP more than the same car remapped). The point i am making is that there are some UK companies out there that produce good tuning box products at a reasonable price. This company, designs, tests and builds there own units.

Having used this unit I can vouch for the results obtained what ever the method used. My car ran for 70K miles with this box and consistantly out performed a remap. In fact the company that provided the remap (i will not name them) were alarmed that the tuning box could produce 20BHP more and came back and did a custom remap for my car. That produced another 4BHP but the tuning box still out performed it by 16BHP top end and more low town torque below 2200rpm. Also, as the car was then modified further (de-cat, sports exhaust, boost upgrade) the box was adjusted to suit the new engine conditions.

I am now going to be a "Test Pilot" again for the 330d engine as i was before and am confident the tuning box can equal, or exceed, the gains seen by a remap. Based on what we learned before I would expect to see more low down torque too.

PS - I like remaps and boxes, I am not here to start a war - only to share my previous experience!!

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by matjam

Sorry everyone, got my techy head on.... I will chill now and enjoy reading other posts...

Not at all Matt, it is great for someone who is the industry to come on here and explain how these things work.


And great to hear about other products too Rich.

[matjam]

Rich,

Knowing about the products in theory you dont need a 'tuning map' for this technology. It can be all done by components I would go into the jargon but im not. This is why they have switches on the box to change the component configuaration which changes the voltages of the output signal to the input of the ECU.

The thing that interests me about this manufacturer are the opening times 10am-1pm and then 6pm-8pm, I want to work for this manufacturer only opening at these times !!!!

Can you tell me the bhp figures of your old car, original, tuning boxed and also the standard and performance figures of your friends car that had a re-map?

I'm not here argue with anyone all I wanted was to inform people of some technology used.

[Ti Rich]

Originally Posted by matjam

Rich,

Knowing about the products in theory you dont need a 'tuning map' for this technology. It can be all done by components I would go into the jargon but im not. This is why they have switches on the box to change the component configuaration which changes the voltages of the output signal to the input of the ECU.

The thing that interests me about this manufacturer are the opening times 10am-1pm and then 6pm-8pm, I want to work for this manufacturer only opening at these times !!!!

Can you tell me the bhp figures of your old car, original, tuning boxed and also the standard and performance figures of your friends car that had a re-map?

I'm not here argue with anyone all I wanted was to inform people of some technology used.

Dear Matjam

First of all this tuning box IS mapped against load and rpm - it's not a predetermined increase in fuel pressure across the rpm range type device. The switches change maps, not voltages! This company is a small company employing 1-2 people who developed, part-time, a specific product for a specific market. Hence why the phone lines are only open part time. It was very sucessful and has since been expanded to a small range of other cars. Let me also say that i have no financial interest in this company and only can go on my own, and other users, experiences. I am all for supporting a small UK company who tries hard and delivers a good product at a good price, without a middle man.

This company also produces a MAF compensator (which is like a fixed incremental device) for the 320d engines which suffer greatly if the MAF is old and under performing. It also allows users to change from a BOSCH MAF to a Pierburg MAF - A much cheaper, and robust, solution to old MAF problems. In my experience any MAF that has done over 40k miles is beyond it's best giving rise to poor low down perfromance and poor fuel consumption.

The remap was not on a friends car - it was on mine so the figures can be compared. I started off with the tuning box and then, thinking the grass is greener on the other side, removed the box and had a remap. The results (on this car) were very disapointing indeed. Hence the remap company were invited back to try and impove the remap. Here, as i said, they gained another 4 BHP with a custom remap. In the end i kept the remap AND used the tuning box to good effect.

If you want some figures/graphs here goes. I am in Portugal today so don't have access to all the results but can post some more when I get back.

In standard form my MG ZT produced 129 BHP (Flywheel) and 220lbft. The addition of just the tuning box produced 148BHP at the wheels. Which using a conservative 10% transmission loss gives 164BHP flywheel.

Here is the graph for that rolling road run:-



As i said i then removed the tuning box and had a remap. The graph below, on a different rolling road i admit, shows 3 runs. The first two (no 2+3) were with just the remap. The 3rd run (No 1) i used the remap with the tuning box as well:-



It can be seen that the remap on it's own produced 140.6 BHP (fly) and 242lbft. This is an increase of only 11BHP over standard and about 20lbft- quite poor. Then the tuning box was switched on as well (on a low setting) which gave an additional 10 BHP and 25lbft.

Over the next few months, with the the addition of a sports exhaust a decat and further tweeking of the tuning box (still with the remap) i was able to futher improve this to a maximum of 171 BHP and 313lbft. This was 158 BHP @ the wheels. For some reason this car always gave a low transmission loss, 8% in this case.



Here is the actual plot off the rolling road. The torque figure above was calculated from the gearbox ratio's and rpm. Sorry it's 90 degrees out!



At this stage MPG was the same as the original car but the performance was greatly improved. Here is a graph that compares the standard car with the final car with remap, tuning box and a few breathing mods. The car had no problems and went through the MOT twice.




So there is a bit of background with a few graphs as well. A remap and tuning box can be used together for good effect - at least on this car/engine! Also the remap did not give the results promised and were easily surpased by the tuning box (Again, on this engine).

[jaspy412]

all i know is that i plugged this little thingy in then got more power than my supercharged lexus is200 and 60+ mpg its f***ing great!

[roverron]

Originally Posted by matjam

Rich,

Knowing about the products in theory you dont need a 'tuning map' for this technology. It can be all done by components I would go into the jargon but im not. This is why they have switches on the box to change the component configuaration which changes the voltages of the output signal to the input of the ECU.

The thing that interests me about this manufacturer are the opening times 10am-1pm and then 6pm-8pm, I want to work for this manufacturer only opening at these times !!!!

Can you tell me the bhp figures of your old car, original, tuning boxed and also the standard and performance figures of your friends car that had a re-map?

I'm not here argue with anyone all I wanted was to inform people of some technology used.

TiRich has asked me to come along and explain how the Synergy works in light of your (incorrect) assumptions. Its far more sohpisticated than the low price might suggest!

The Synergy 1 remaps the fuel pressure sensor signal in real time (actually about 1ms behind real time). The output is modified relative to the input which itself varies with engine rpm and throttle position hence there is no need for connections to the rpm, and throttle position sensors. (as is the case with products from some companies)

As the signal is remapped using a microcontroller, the switch is only used to 'tell' the firmware which of the 10 maps to use to modify the signal.

This method also enables the signal to be altered differently at any point in the rev range. Hence the Synergy can be set to boost low and mid range torque but not 'top end' bhp or vice versa and the amount of the increase can also be chosen.

The Synergy 2 is identical in operation but also connects to and processes the maf sensor signal. The maf is infamous on its effect on performance and fuel consumption when its signal goes out of spec so the Synergy 2 offers 3 levels of adjustment to compensate for this deterioration. It also enables a low cost Pierburgh maf to be fitted.

Thanks for letting me visit your forum to explain.
Ron

[- Paul -]

Keep the info flowing guys - great to read from a consumer perspective - I want to buy but still haven't made my mind up as to which one yet.

[Budgie]

Just go and get one ...

[Ti Rich]

Thanks for dropping in Ron, i was almost right!

[matjam]

Dear TiRich and Ron

Ok, thanks for the explanation..

MAF or air flow sensors are common for fatigue generally supplying incorrect information to the ECU hence poor performance. Bosch MAF's especially.

Getting back to the tuning box.
From my understanding, you connect to the common rail fuel pressure sensor.
Basically you have two connection to tuning box an input from the common rail sensor and a output that goes to the ECU. I hope I'm correct so far.

This common rail fuel pressure sensor is a feedback component in a control loop and informs the ECU what pressure the common rail is. The ECU can then tell the pump to increase or decrease output accordingly. The ECU controls the pressure regulator or “M-Prop” valve on the pump to control pump pressure. When you press the throttle the ECU will immediately calculate how much fuel to give the engine based on speed, load, etc. This sensor gives a continual feedback of rail pressure so that the ECU can make any pressure adjustments almost instantaneously.

The statement above I believe is to be correct (or are my assumptions incorrect), this means that the common rail fuel pressure most commonly has three connections, +5 volt power supply, negative power supply and a variable output signal usually ranging from 0.5v to maximum of 4.5volts (if it reached 5volts then it need changing as its faulty).

So the tuning box all it can do from this signal output is adjust this voltage/signal going to an input on the ECU. (originally between 0.5v - 4.5v) so when you state it remaps a sensor you mean adjusts the voltage ? The original ECU calculates everything else accordingly to what inputs it has on various sensors, the common rail pressure sensor being one of them.

Ok using a microcontroller it has firmware and tuning maps thats good but again I state from this CR sensor without any other connections all you pshyically can do is change/remap/adjust/tweak the input voltage to the ECU which then changes the common rail fuel pressure accordingly. The original ECU calculates everything else!!!!!!!!

I'm not down grading your product infact if you read my posts I stated that they work very well, my point was the method of tuning.

Rich also just for your information I am also a UK company employing very small number employees. I back UK companies 100% I buy what I can from local suppliers so atleast we agree about somethings.

Oh dear, i feel like I should never of commented!!!

[matjam]

Just for everyone's information when I state ECU I mean the original Electronic Control Unit (ECU) not a tuning box.

[Ti Rich]

Matjam

I think your correct in what you are saying!, i'll ask Ron to confirm.

It's all good information and, i am sure, interesting to most readers!

What i didn't say on the long post is that other users who also had this engine remapped (by a wide range of companies) also had disapointing results. It appears that this particular BMW engine just didn't respond well to a remap.

Increasing the fuel pressure slightly does appear to give better results low down. I can only assume that this is due to better atomisation of the fuel. With a remap more fuel is injected by a longer pulse width which, again on this engine, just did not give the same results.

You are right that the tuning box only adjusts the fuel rail pressure signal - but, as you say, thsi does work and work very well.

Of course engines have moved on since this design and the current range of BMW engines do appear to respond very well indeed to a remap.

Bosch MAF's in my opinion should be a service item. The effect they have on performance and MPG is very significant. A lot of people with cars over 40k miles don't realise that the MAF has gone out of spec as it, in general, happens so slowly so goes unnoticed. I discovered that cleaning the MAF as often as every 3k miles made a significant difference., it shows how sensitive they are - especially in the winter when there is a lot of road spray. A lot of the contamination in the spray ends up on the MAF.

I also work for a manufacturing company in the UK. 90% of our business is expeort and I am the sales manager responsible for this, so well done to us all - the dying breed of UK manufactures!