Cams

Taskmaster · 04-30-2015, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justpete

Cool, thanks. Hass mentioned this but didn't connect, duh.

I found you a new avatar, I think it accurately captures your love of the N52- BEHOLD

justpete · 04-30-2015, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I found you a new avatar, I think it accurately captures your love of the N52- BEHOLD

heh

Taskmaster · 04-30-2015, 04:41 PM

http://procedetuning.com/328i/OFT/index.html

Mike. · 04-30-2015, 04:45 PM

why dont we track down someone who has it, get their stock tune, and send it to hass?

Taskmaster · 04-30-2015, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike.

why dont we track down someone who has it, get their stock tune, and send it to hass?

There are a few people here who have one...

Mike. · 04-30-2015, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

There are a few people here who have one...

exactly. now we're critically thinking. This may be our big break

justpete · 04-30-2015, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike.

why dont we track down someone who has it, get their stock tune, and send it to hass?

Genius.

Won't help with the offroad tune though.

justpete · 04-30-2015, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

http://procedetuning.com/328i/OFT/index.html

D'Oh! If only there was a way to search for this. Yep, I'm google impaired....

Thanks

Taskmaster · 04-30-2015, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justpete

D'Oh! If only there was a way to search for this. Yep, I'm google impaired....

Thanks

But seriously, what is plan A and what is plan B?

Plan A - datalogg and send files to AA for a dyno tune?
Plan B - OFT file that can be modified by Hass - and then sent to AA for final tweaking?

Mike. · 04-30-2015, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justpete

Genius.

Won't help with the offroad tune though.

I thought we just needed the stock tune for the cam parameters

this is hurting my head

justpete · 04-30-2015, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

But seriously, what is plan A and what is plan B?

Plan A - datalogg and send files to AA for a dyno tune?
Plan B - OFT file that can be modified by Hass - and then sent to AA for final tweaking?

Datalog what? With what? I asked Karl about this and he said there's no easy way to jumpstart a tune, will have to be done iteratively on the dyno. Just reporting what I was told.

OFT file would have to be the AA offroad tune downloaded from my DME which may or may not be alterable. Costly to find out.

If Autel had an upgrade so I could use their DME comm module with my Maxi-SYS Mini it might be a no brainer but so far it's just not happening.

justpete · 04-30-2015, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike.

I thought we just needed the stock tune for the cam parameters

this is hurting my head

It's possible to alter the relevant cam parameters but it has to be done using a binary image from the DME and in my case it would that of the AA offroad tune which may or may not allow them to be altered, no way of knowing.

The stock cam parameters will be known next week after hass receives my removed OEM cams. It's up to him if he wishes to release that data since it's his effort that will generate the data.

Mike. · 04-30-2015, 05:05 PM

1QuikWS6 has one

^care to help us? (dont say no)

Taskmaster · 04-30-2015, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justpete

Datalog what? With what? I asked Karl about this and he said there's no easy way to jumpstart a tune, will have to be done iteratively on the dyno. Just reporting what I was told.

OFT file would have to be the AA offroad tune downloaded from my DME which may or may not be alterable. Costly to find out.

If Autel had an upgrade so I could use their DME comm module with my Maxi-SYS Mini it might be a no brainer but so far it's just not happening.

That's exactly what they will be doing - a datalog would tell them (from the recorded file) exactly what is going on in the engine at a given load and RPM. Obviously they'll want to do it on a dyno so they can see how it affects the power in real time.

And the only way to grab your stock file is to actually reload it from the simon, and then use the OFT or the like to download the stock file.

jc5988 · 04-30-2015, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justpete

It's possible to alter the relevant cam parameters but it has to be done using a binary image from the DME and in my case it would that of the AA offroad tune which may or may not allow them to be altered, no way of knowing.

The stock cam parameters will be known next week after hass receives my removed OEM cams. It's up to him if he wishes to release that data since it's his effort that will generate the data.

correct me if im wrong, i think pretty much all tuner, AA, ESS, Evolve... tricks stock DME to advance timing and fuel delivery. so in your case, its most likely have go with source can actually recode the tune rather then trick it.

hopefully you dont have to end up with motec.

justpete · 04-30-2015, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

That's exactly what they will be doing - a datalog would tell them (from the recorded file) exactly what is going on in the engine at a given load and RPM. Obviously they'll want to do it on a dyno so they can see how it affects the power in real time.

And the only way to grab your stock file is to actually reload it from the simon, and then use the OFT or the like to download the stock file.

I have no way of datalogging all the data available on the PT-CAN bus. If I could get that feature of the Race Technology DL1Mk3 working it's be a breeze though. BMWLogger doesn't seem to have all that much capability either, maybe it does, didn't think to ask. A few wot runs with it logging might be helpful?

Taskmaster · 04-30-2015, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justpete

I have no way of datalogging all the data available on the PT-CAN bus. If I could get that feature of the Race Technology DL1Mk3 working it's be a breeze though. BMWLogger doesn't seem to have all that much capability either, maybe it does, didn't think to ask. A few wot runs with it logging might be helpful?

That's probably what they will use - they are looking for A/F, ignition advance, injector timing, cam timing - I imagine since they created a tune, they have a lot of what those targets SHOULD be.

Though I'm no tuner, I'm going off what I've been told.

hassmaschine · 04-30-2015, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc5988

correct me if im wrong, i think pretty much all tuner, AA, ESS, Evolve... tricks stock DME to advance timing and fuel delivery. so in your case, its most likely have go with source can actually recode the tune rather then trick it.

hopefully you dont have to end up with motec.

no they are changing the values directly same as I would.

as far as using another binary - that could work, but it would have to be the same program version. I have a couple MSV80 files but I don't have his version info.

it would be better to have his original stock file though. you could send my file for an AA update but then they could steal the info I've found just the same as if you'd sent their tuned file to me.. chicken and the egg!

I don't think there's any reason to go full standalone here either. it's just a matter of what route he choses to go.

gbm30 · 04-30-2015, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick100

My mechanic with a n52 racecar in toronto is hitting like 320 at the wheels without supercharger

It all depends on how much money you want to throw in the car, everything is possible

Honestly that's great. I wonder how I could do that.

justpete · 04-30-2015, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

no they are changing the values directly same as I would.

as far as using another binary - that could work, but it would have to be the same program version. I have a couple MSV80 files but I don't have his version info.

it would be better to have his original stock file though. you could send my file for an AA update but then they could steal the info I've found just the same as if you'd sent their tuned file to me.. chicken and the egg!

I don't think there's any reason to go full standalone here either. it's just a matter of what route he choses to go.

Got some more info.

If I'm understanding AA correctly the existing tune can be downloaded and edited via TunerPro and then reloaded.

Bad news is I'm being refused the lift and duration of the cams as they're claimed to be the IP. That makes the cams scrap metal.

Alternately I could have the stock cams replaced, ship the regrinds to you, get the needed information simply by measuring them, reinstalling them, and editing the existing offroad tune file with an OFT and TunerPro using the measured parameters.

Or there's always heavy drinking...

justpete · 04-30-2015, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbm30

Honestly that's great. I wonder how I could do that.

Lock Valvetronic open, hook up the TB(s) to a throttle cable attached to a real gas pedal, dump the DME and install a MoTeC, and tune it like you would any other real engine. Oh yeah, get rid of Vanos while you're at it. No problem, fifteen to twenty grand just for the ECU and ancillary bits and pieces. And someone who knows how to tune the engine, minor detail. Otherwise, easy peasy lemon squeezy.

hassmaschine · 04-30-2015, 06:26 PM

how can somebody sell a cam without sharing the lift and duration? you don't even know what you're getting. usually you choose a cam based on what RPM you want your power band to be in, what your compression ratio is, etc. every other manufacturer on the planet publishes at least those two numbers.

it might be possible to measure it inside the engine with a dial indicator. you'd have the valve cover off, hopefully enough of a cam lobe exposed to measure off of, and rotate the engine by hand. measuring at the valve would be better but valvetronic would have to be locked fully open.

also, I don't think TunerPro can read the dme directly. It's just used to edit the files. TunerPro also can't calculate the checksum, although a plug in could be made to do that at some point.

04-30-2015, 04:41 PM	#201
Taskmaster Banned 2495 Rep 9,004 Posts Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Florida iTrader: (6)	http://procedetuning.com/328i/OFT/index.html
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-30-2015, 04:45 PM	#202
Mike. Mike: Everyone's Pal 2047 Rep 2,974 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Eastern Long Island iTrader: (5) Garage List 2013 BMW 335xi [10.00]	why dont we track down someone who has it, get their stock tune, and send it to hass? __________________ [CENTER] 2021 6.2L Trail Boss, 6" BDS lift, Chevy Performance intake, 35" Nitto Grapplers, 20" Fuel wheels
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-30-2015, 05:05 PM	#211
Mike. Mike: Everyone's Pal 2047 Rep 2,974 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Eastern Long Island iTrader: (5) Garage List 2013 BMW 335xi [10.00]	1QuikWS6 has one ^care to help us? (dont say no) __________________ [CENTER] 2021 6.2L Trail Boss, 6" BDS lift, Chevy Performance intake, 35" Nitto Grapplers, 20" Fuel wheels
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-30-2015, 06:26 PM	#220
hassmaschine Major General 3989 Rep 7,212 Posts Drives: "NBO" 330i Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: earth iTrader: (0)	how can somebody sell a cam without sharing the lift and duration? you don't even know what you're getting. usually you choose a cam based on what RPM you want your power band to be in, what your compression ratio is, etc. every other manufacturer on the planet publishes at least those two numbers. it might be possible to measure it inside the engine with a dial indicator. you'd have the valve cover off, hopefully enough of a cam lobe exposed to measure off of, and rotate the engine by hand. measuring at the valve would be better but valvetronic would have to be locked fully open. also, I don't think TunerPro can read the dme directly. It's just used to edit the files. TunerPro also can't calculate the checksum, although a plug in could be made to do that at some point.
	Appreciate 0 Quote