[Reece]

Originally Posted by Bimmer1953

N47D20c is the engine type and BMW have reiterated no qe for this car
Has anyone ever used BM Autoparts UK of West Bromwich. I think they were listed on this forum some time ago but I haven't noticed any comments about their services . They are Bmw specialists ? I am seriously considering having the new timing chains and tensioner fitted as mine isn't one of the cars listed and I can't afford to risk it , so getting it fixed before it happens would seem the best option.

It would be stupid to fork out getting both replaced now when there is no problem, would cost you a fortune, if there not a problem with it i would leave it, chances are in the near future yours will be up for recall aswel then you would have wasted thousands for no reason, for the thousands on n47's out there its a very small % that actually get affected, this qe from bmw is a preventive measure

[bishbosh]

The N47D20C might suffer a little chain noise but the chain won't snap!
The problem cars were the N47D20A engines from 2007 to the start of 2009, they were the ones most likely to snap.

I'd save your money.

If you were really concerned, take out a BMW Insured Warranty in case the worst happens.

[John320d]

Why bother with insurance if BMW are repairing for free? Any damage caused by a snapped chain would be paid by BMW.

[bishbosh]

Up until not long ago BMW would have denied all knowledge resulting in a very expensive repair bill!

The insurance covers more than just the chain of course.
Also the insurance would be cheaper (at least for a while) than paying an indy to replace the chain.

In Kali's case I wouldn't be paying to change the chain if it's not noisy. Mine on the other hand had a very noisy chain (2008, e91) and at a time when BMW couldn't care less my warranty was a life (+wallet) saver

I think BMW are approaching the QE in stages, with the earlier engines being subjected to the QE, the later engines following in due course.

[dy63]

if I had the same engine as you guys and BMW were changing it for free I would go and get it changed anyway regardless if its not making noise

[eriiiksson]

Ive got an 2008 320d n47 that is going to have the timing chains replaced in a couple of weeks. Car has soon 160.000 km on the clock.

One (the main, besides the the tensioner?) reason the early n47 have problem with the timing chain is the sprocket on the crankshaft, it is welded on the cranshaft as well.
You can read the PUMA for that in this thread. But since they are doing this for free, are they only going to change the chains, no matter what I try telling them? As far I can see those who got the chains replaced for this recall only either got chains and tensioner or only the tensioner replaced.

The point is, it is good that bmw tries to fix this, but if the real problem is the crankshaft and the sprocket, they are just pushing the problem another 50000 km. The engines that broke or had problems with this early got cranks and balance shafts in the engine replaced as well, but then it was the insurance companies that paid, not BMW.

[AJ57]

New to the forum, glad to have found this thread, so thanks for posting. Recently purchased a 57 plate E92 auto with 135k, under the impression this did not have the timing chain issue engine. Had it in local Indy last couple of days for a coolant temperature sensor replacement, and while it was in asked to check if the timing chain had been done or to confirm it wasn't the engine with the issue. Informed it was the engine and that a recall/ quality enhancehancement was outstanding. Contacted local dealership to book in 2 days ago and earliest day with courtesy car availabe was 3 weeks time. Relieved it would be covered and scheduled for the fix I asked the service engineer what would happen if the chain failed between now and then. "Couldn't say" was the reply. I get a call from the Indy at lunchtime that day saying the sensor has been fitted and issue resolved and on the 5 min test drive to make sure everything is running as it should, he turns in to a side street at low speed and the engine dies. Has to get towed back to his garage and looks like the timing chain has gone. Another tow and an emergency booking at dealership for investigation. Visual inspection is inconclusive so they call for authorisation to investigate by stripping the engine down. Could be up to £400 on top of towing charges to be told it's not covered. Will know more tomorrow and post update.

[bishbosh]

Originally Posted by eriiiksson

Ive got an 2008 320d n47 that is going to have the timing chains replaced in a couple of weeks. Car has soon 160.000 km on the clock.

One (the main, besides the the tensioner?) reason the early n47 have problem with the timing chain is the sprocket on the crankshaft, it is welded on the cranshaft as well.
You can read the PUMA for that in this thread. But since they are doing this for free, are they only going to change the chains, no matter what I try telling them? As far I can see those who got the chains replaced for this recall only either got chains and tensioner or only the tensioner replaced.

The point is, it is good that bmw tries to fix this, but if the real problem is the crankshaft and the sprocket, they are just pushing the problem another 50000 km. The engines that broke or had problems with this early got cranks and balance shafts in the engine replaced as well, but then it was the insurance companies that paid, not BMW.

The original problem with excessively sharp sprockets was on crankshafts manufactured up to Jan 2009. I would have thought for the QE that cars presented to a dealer that fit within the criteria of the PUMA would have their cranks replaced, although I'm not sure of what their stance is.

I've often heard that it's the top chain that fails, maybe because it's smaller and not as strong?

[kayfaz]

Originally Posted by bishbosh

The original problem with excessively sharp sprockets was on crankshafts manufactured up to Jan 2009. I would have thought for the QE that cars presented to a dealer that fit within the criteria of the PUMA would have their cranks replaced, although I'm not sure of what their stance is.

I've often heard that it's the top chain that fails, maybe because it's smaller and not as strong?

They didn't replace the crankshaft or sprocket on mine

Just the top chain and tensioner

[AJ57]

Quick update: dealers engineers assessment is that the middle timing chain has snapped. BMW will be picking up 100% of the cost of rebuild and extensive parts list. Very relieved. Thanks again for this informative thread.

[wildsparrow]

The QE does not cover replacing the crank. I specifically asked the dealer when mine was in and they said "No, we do not replace the crankshaft". Mine had the tensioner and both upper and lower chains replaced. They gave me a document that just says that, but not the normal customer printout showing a complete parts replaced listing as I suppose I was not the customer, BMW was.

[AlanQS]

Just has my car checked by the dealer. Only the tensioners needed replacement. They also said that even if they had to replace all the chains, it wouldn't take that long - two days tops.

[jldelta]

The timing chain on my 2008 X3 N47D20A Auto broke here in The Netherlands 2 days ago (I live here part of the time). The vehicle is awaiting full assessment at BMW Amsterdam, but they have already told me it may require a new engine, as they suspect timing chain failure.

The vehicle is UK registered and was purchased new from BMW Park Lane & has always been serviced by BMW Amsterdam. The last service was on 17 February 2015, ie. one month after the January 2015 Product Enhancement posted in this thread.

Both BMW Amsterdam & BMW UK say my vehicle is not listed on the enhancement list & they cannot say why - perhaps it is because BMW have not got around to N47 X3s yet

I have emailed BMW Amsterdam today requesting full repair at their expense on the basis that the engine design fault has been acknowledged by BMW and if the enhancement had been carried out last February, no damage would have occurred. The age and high mileage of the vehicle (230k km) are therefore immaterial, as is the body type in which the N47 is fitted.

Does anyone have any experience of their N47-engined vehicle NOT being on the enhancement list but being fixed anyway and/or have any suggestions as to further action to "persuade" BMW to cooperate, please ?

I fear litigation is in the air... complicated as my contract of purchase is with BMW UK and the vehicle is sitting at BMW Amsterdam !

[jldelta]

BMW declined to offer any financial assistance & quoted €10,377.92 for an engine replacement.

Following advice from here http://bmw-n47.weebly.com/ & elsewhere, I put together a 4 page dossier as to why BMW should pay and gave them a 72 hr deadline to accept responsibility or be taken to court. With 9 minutes to go, they offered to pay "most" of the costs (spread between BMW Amsterdam, BMW NL & BMW AG). In reply, I asked them to give me ONE logical reason why they should not bear 100% of the expense. 48 hrs later they capitulated and agreed to pay all the costs, but said they wanted to inspect the engine again first, which they did and have now decided a rebuild will do, presumably because it's cheaper to do so, although this will take longer as the cylinder head has to be sent away (I expect to get the car back sometime next week, by which time it will have been off the road for over 3 weeks).

BMW never told me why my VIN was not included in the product enhancement (I asked several times).

Although I am not a lawyer, I have considerable experience with commercial litigation which enabled me to put together a compelling legal argument. Whilst I have in fact always received excellent service from BMW Amsterdam, it greatly discredits BMW as a whole that so many of their customers have ended up paying huge N47 repair costs because of a now-admitted defective design.

[Leah1]

Originally Posted by jldelta

BMW declined to offer any financial assistance & quoted €10,377.92 for an engine replacement.

Following advice from here http://bmw-n47.weebly.com/ & elsewhere, I put together a 4 page dossier as to why BMW should pay and gave them a 72 hr deadline to accept responsibility or be taken to court. With 9 minutes to go, they offered to pay "most" of the costs (spread between BMW Amsterdam, BMW NL & BMW AG). In reply, I asked them to give me ONE logical reason why they should not bear 100% of the expense. 48 hrs later they capitulated and agreed to pay all the costs, but said they wanted to inspect the engine again first, which they did and have now decided a rebuild will do, presumably because it's cheaper to do so, although this will take longer as the cylinder head has to be sent away (I expect to get the car back sometime next week, by which time it will have been off the road for over 3 weeks).


BMW never told me why my VIN was not included in the product enhancement (I asked several times).

Although I am not a lawyer, I have considerable experience with commercial litigation which enabled me to put together a compelling legal argument. Whilst I have in fact always received excellent service from BMW Amsterdam, it greatly discredits BMW as a whole that so many of their customers have ended up paying huge N47 repair costs because of a now-admitted defective design.

That's brilliant news well done !
Would it be a good idea to put a template dossier obviously deleting your personal details so that others can benefit from this and indeed your expertise?
just a thought

[bevandavis]

I am also experiencing problems with my timing chain. I have a 2011 320D Efficientdynamics. I have been to a dealership and they tell me that there are no QE for my model, even though I have the much talked about N47 engine. JlDetla any chance you can post your documents so that I can get mine repaired.

[Z3man]

Originally Posted by bevandavis

I am also experiencing problems with my timing chain. I have a 2011 320D Efficientdynamics. I have been to a dealership and they tell me that there are no QE for my model, even though I have the much talked about N47 engine. JlDetla any chance you can post your documents so that I can get mine repaired.

How many miles has this done?

Is the build date after march 2011?

[bevandavis]

when I was in Germany for the first diagnosis it had done 89,923 miles. On the 2nd diagnosis in the UK it had done 93,647 miles.
The build date on mine says March 2011. It was first registered in the UK on 25/03/2011. I am told it has the N47T engine. Having searched the internet I have found a PUMA dated 14/02/2012 that includes the N47T engine

[Leah1]

Could you post a link

[bevandavis]

there is a dedicated facebook page about it. I think it is from France. here is the link.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/BMW-P...93617047394760

The PuMA is about halfway down the page.

I also found a Solicitor on the page, so have contacted them to see what they can do. I don't really want to involve Solicitors, but if needs must!

I did find some more. I will have another look now and post what I can find.

[bevandavis]

I have also found this forum here:

http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=45004

about halfway down there is the other PUMA. Case 3 is for car after 2011

[Reece]

Cars going in for this tommorow, im getting a loan car but what do i need to take with me? Driving license obviously but any other paper work?