[Sniz]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

boy, had to catch up on the reading. The JB camp is basically in denial. I'm sure there will be more proof in the future, but the N54 is apparently very tough... so will take a little time to see the actually differences between stock timing, and some type of timing control at high psi.

Some seem to think it's ok to run with knock because this is like stock. At high boost, knock is not only more severe, but also more frequent just because of the timing curve targeted and retard levels when knock is measured.

no you wrong, the stock setup knocks a bit so knocking more at higher psi must be fine as well.

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

boy, had to catch up on the reading. The JB camp is basically in denial. I'm sure there will be more proof in the future, but the N54 is apparently very tough... so will take a little time to see the actually differences between stock timing, and some type of timing control at high psi.

Some seem to think it's ok to run with knock because this is like stock. At high boost, knock is not only more severe, but also more frequent just because of the timing curve targeted and retard levels when knock is measured.

As stated I am neutral on this debate. You all say the same thing "higher boost is more severe knock" without posting data to show the OEM knock sensor can not handle higher boost and control timing accordingly to prevent "knock"

Originally Posted by Clap135

Because they are tying to make it personal against me, thats why. The ill informed 18 year olds that have no concept of tuning and question weather knock is bad to begin with, are simply agnry.

Please stop your insults.

I have never made it personal against you, I never want to make any of this personal. INCLUDING each person's intelligence.

Originally Posted by Sniz

no you wrong, the stock setup knocks a bit so knocking more at higher psi must be fine as well.

You can not show me how much and or how hard it actually "knocks", you can show me that there is Frequency's that the OEM sensors senses and in turn lowers timing, but you can not show actual "knock" because the Timing is lowered before said knocking occurs. (Which is what it is suppose to do)

[Clap135]

For those that still dont understand this. It is not a matter of the knock sensor not dropping timing, its a matter of the car always trying to raise timing to the stock point (which is way to high for raised boost) and repeating the process over and over again.

[Forcefed3]

So why doesn't Terry adjust the timing curve?

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

So why doesn't Terry adjust the timing curve?

Because he cant

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Clap135

For those that still dont understand this. It is not a matter of the knock sensor not dropping timing, its a matter of the car always trying to raise timing to the stock point (which is way to high for raised boost) and repeating the process over and over again.

Is that not the job of the knock sensor and one of the reason that it is built into the car?

[Joshboody]

It is possible BMW is retarding timing at the slightest knock and may not be very damaging... but why take the chance. Terry, or others don't have the detailed information on this... maybe BMW does, but the testing was at lower boost levels. they thought it was necessary to retard the overall timing map in the IS model... why, you ask... BECAUSE OF INCREASED BOOST.

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Because he cant

Well couldn't he start using the CPS?

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

Is that not the job of the knock sensor and one of the reason that it is built into the car?

I give up, you are lost my friend. Read a book, cause I am tired of repeating myself.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

Well couldn't he start using the CPS?

But he says it is not needed and the timing drop out are fine, but yet the jb4 now lowers boost .25psi with each of these timing drop out. Which is pretty useless cause it if works as he says it works, it will lower boost to stock over time, make it sort of useless. The other jb4 pro version will have cps offseting, even though its not needed....

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by Clap135

But he says it is not needed and the timing drop out are fine, but yet the jb4 now lowers boost .25psi with each of these timing drop out. Which is pretty useless cause it if works as he says it works, it will lower boost to stock over time, make it sort of useless. The other jb4 pro version will have cps offseting, even though its not needed....

I understand what you're saying. I really do wish he could add cps offsetting. I guess it's too late to add it to the normal jb4 though.

[SennaZ]

Originally Posted by Sniz

Re-read the story of Chicken Little, but substitute the words "the BMW is knocking" for the "sky is falling" and all will be clear.

[possible335i2008]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

So why doesn't Terry adjust the timing curve?

I don't think he can with the current setup, if I am not mistaken. The jb4 just uses can data to react quicker but it still does not address timing which it relies on the stock system to prevent knock. Essentially jb camp says since the stock ecu "knocks or reacts to knock" and does a great job @ stock levels that you are perfectly safe using this system @ raised levels. They claim these pre-knock events are not harmful to the car at all and that it's no big deal. EVERYONE ELSE SAYS B.S., these events are dangerous and their cumulative effects are detrimental to our engines. I agree with everyone else.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

So why doesn't Terry adjust the timing curve?

He can't. His simple board doesn't have the necessary components/design/processor.

But here is the back story. You can do a search and see for yourselves:

Upon the release of the jb3 a couple years back, he repeatedly claimed that it did indeed have such a timing control feature. Only to be proven untrue, months later, by an in-depth board analysis and oscilloscope testing done by scalbert (a user on this forum).

Caught in a monumental lie, Terry/Mike claimed that they eliminated the feature in the last minute before release and forget to update their marketing material or tell any of their customers or dealers. Terry/Mike claimed that they found a "better, secret" way to control timing. And that turned out to be... wait for it....
not doing a damn thing.

Many of us assumed this would be the end of the JB tune and BMS. But it turned out that it's easier to target noobs who aren't privy to this information or knowledgeable on the subject of tuning than it is to admit wrongdoing and go back to the drawing board. This is one of the many reasons that Mike/Terry has absolutely no credibility with many older members on this forum.

Forum searches are useful. It will show why many of us aren't tolerant of misinformation presented by certain parties who have a long illustrious history of presenting such misinformation.

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

He can't. His simple board doesn't have the necessary components/design/processor.

But here is the back story. You can do a search and see for yourselves:

Upon the release of the jb3 a couple years back, he repeatedly claimed that it did indeed have such a timing control feature. Only to be proven untrue, months later, by an in-depth board analysis and oscilloscope testing done by scalbert (a user on this forum).

Caught in a monumental lie, Terry/Mike claimed that they eliminated the feature in the last minute before release and forget to update their marketing material or tell any of their customers or dealers. Terry/Mike claimed that they found a "better, secret" way to control timing. And that turned out to be... wait for it....
not doing a damn thing.

Many of us assumed this would be the end of the JB tune and BMS. But it turned out that it's easier to target noobs who aren't privy to this information or knowledgeable on the subject of tuning than it is to admit wrongdoing and go back to the drawing board. This is one of the many reasons that Mike/Terry has absolutely no credibility with many older members on this forum.

Forum searches are useful. It will show why many of us aren't tolerant of misinformation presented by certain parties who have a long illustrious history of presenting such misinformation.

And this has what to do with timing or using the OEM knock sensor that BMS currently uses?

Im sorry, but as a professional in my own business, you should have respect for competitors, even if you feel they have done and or are doing wrong.

Two wrongs don't make a right Shiv.

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

He can't. His simple board doesn't have the necessary components/design/processor.

But here is the back story. You can do a search and see for yourselves:

Upon the release of the jb3 a couple years back, he repeatedly claimed that it did indeed have such a timing control feature. Only to be proven untrue, months later, by an in-depth board analysis and oscilloscope testing done by scalbert (a user on this forum).

Caught in a monumental lie, Terry/Mike claimed that they eliminated the feature in the last minute before release and forget to update their marketing material or tell any of their customers or dealers. Terry/Mike claimed that they found a "better, secret" way to control timing. And that turned out to be... wait for it....
not doing a damn thing.

Many of us assumed this would be the end of the JB tune and BMS. But it turned out that it's easier to target noobs who aren't privy to this information or knowledgeable on the subject of tuning than it is to admit wrongdoing and go back to the drawing board. This is one of the many reasons that Mike/Terry has absolutely no credibility with many older members on this forum.

Shiv

Obviously meth injection can't change timing, but could it keep the engine from being harmed due to having a stock timing curve?

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

He can't. His simple board doesn't have the necessary components/design/processor.

But here is the back story. You can do a search and see for yourselves:

Upon the release of the jb3 a couple years back, he repeatedly claimed that it did indeed have such a timing control feature. Only to be proven untrue, months later, by an in-depth board analysis and oscilloscope testing done by scalbert (a user on this forum).

Caught in a monumental lie, Terry/Mike claimed that they eliminated the feature in the last minute before release and forget to update their marketing material or tell any of their customers or dealers. Terry/Mike claimed that they found a "better, secret" way to control timing. And that turned out to be... wait for it....
not doing a damn thing.

Many of us assumed this would be the end of the JB tune and BMS. But it turned out that it's easier to target noobs who aren't privy to this information or knowledgeable on the subject of tuning than it is to admit wrongdoing and go back to the drawing board. This is one of the many reasons that Mike/Terry has absolutely no credibility with many older members on this forum.

Forum searches are useful. It will show why many of us aren't tolerant of misinformation presented by certain parties who have a long illustrious history of presenting such misinformation.

thats pretty well spot on chap

[Proper Motion LLC]

Originally Posted by Focus

Clap/Shiv

If i understand correctly, what your saying is that even the the engine knocks at stock boost levels, the same knock occuring at 14+ psi is heavily damaging to the engine in your opinions correct? I say in your opinions because without opening an engine and SEEING the damage there's not FACT in the statement, even though " common sense " dictates the latter.

Cobb, BMS, and I'd venture to guess BMW would say thats not knock in the traditional sense.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

Obviously meth injection can't change timing, but could it keep the engine from being harmed due to having a stock timing curve?

assuming your meth is integrated properly and never ever fails.

I personally don't like the idea of a supplemental system that requires another high pressure pump being relied upon to keep your engine healthy.

[topspin]

Originally Posted by possible335i2008

I don't think he can with the current setup, if I am not mistaken. The jb4 just uses can data to react quicker but it still does not address timing which it relies on the stock system to prevent knock. Essentially jb camp says since the stock ecu "knocks or reacts to knock" and does a great job @ stock levels that you are perfectly safe using this system @ raised levels. They claim these pre-knock events are not harmful to the car at all and that it's no big deal. EVERYONE ELSE SAYS B.S., these events are dangerous and their cumulative effects are detrimental to our engines. I agree with everyone else.

+1

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

And this has what to do with timing or using the OEM knock sensor that BMS currently uses?

Im sorry, but as a professional in my own business, you should have respect for competitors, even if you feel they have done and or are doing wrong.

Two wrongs don't make a right Shiv.

this has to do with how BMS misleads its consumers terribly.

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by Sniz

assuming your meth is integrated properly and never ever fails.

I personally don't like the idea of a supplemental system that requires another high pressure pump being relied upon to keep your engine healthy.

Well it shouldn't fail, correct? Sorry for that off topic question.