[DWR]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Here are a couple of recent multi-gear WOT pulls of mine (on the far left and the far right). The little boost spikes on this particular log aren't the issue. Post-shift timing corrections happen if they're there or not. Ignition timing target is reduced quite a bit as soon as boost is over target anyway. You can see the log point where timing has been restored to normal is the exact logging point where the knock-induced timing corrections happen. I think just need a little slower onset of timing after a shift to stop it:

http://datazap.me/u/bradsm87/rev42-t...5&zoom=424-866

First, let me say that datazap is very cool. Downloaded the CSV and took a look. I filtered the data for the timing corrections. It shows the greatest timing corrections take place outside of torque reduction of the shift. In fact, it correlates very well with high torque.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

I haven't looked much at the 8HP one because the VAG 6HP one seems to have big amounts of exact same tables in the exact same sequence, sometimes in big chunks of many tables before a difference pops up. The tables that aren't in the VAG 6HP one like Shiftmaps, I've looked for in the 8HP map list but they're not there either. It seems the VAG 6HP one is by far the most useful and shares most of the tables with ours. I'll prob just wait till we get access to full WinOLS to play more with the 8HP stuff.

Well, I feel a little better
Yes, I agree the VAG is very informative. Glad my recommendation panned out.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by DWR

First, let me say that datazap is very cool. Downloaded the CSV and took a look. I filtered the data for the timing corrections. It shows the greatest timing corrections take place outside of torque reduction of the shift. In fact, it correlates very well with high torque.

Correct. It happens right where it gets back to full torque. That's why I want to introduce full torque back over a slower ramp time and delay where full torque comes back in by 10 ms or so. It's going "all in" with the timing a bit too suddenly after the shift, causing it to knock in a load and RPM point that does not normally ever knock during a steady state run through a gear.

[robnitro]

Wow, reminds me of the former top gear show called Grand Tour. The m4 gts something with more power but nothing special. But they put in a water injection system for that lol. I guess bmw couldn't figure out how to prevent knock. It was hilarious to see Clarkson filling up the container in the trunk with a plant waterer, lol. He was disappointed that they did this for not too much power.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by robnitro

they put in a water injection system for that lol. I guess bmw couldn't figure out how to prevent knock.

It's not a matter of BMW not being able to figure out how to prevent knock. They could easily either lower the compression ratio or reduce the ignition advance, both which penalize performance. Water injection is a way to do it without penalizing performance.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

It's not a matter of BMW not being able to figure out how to prevent knock. They could easily either lower the compression ratio or reduce the ignition advance, both which penalize performance. Water injection is a way to do it without penalizing performance.

I'm really surprised the load management routines in the DME can't handle this.

[rjahl]

What exactly does the toque management maps in the Xhp maps do? Do they affect the torque reduction requests to the DME?

I tried changing the values in my tune and I could not notice any change. Nothing showed up in the logs either.

It could be that my logs were full load and I'm running against another map for torque limit during gearshifts.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by rjahl

What exactly does the toque management maps in the Xhp maps do? Do they affect the torque reduction requests to the DME?

I tried changing the values in my tune and I could not notice any change. Nothing showed up in the logs either.

It could be that my logs were full load and I'm running against another map for torque limit during gearshifts.

My understanding is that it's a correction factor from the TCU's initial calculation for the torque reduction requirement. I think the lower the number in this table, the more it reduces torque during the shift.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

My understanding is that it's a correction factor from the TCU's initial calculation for the torque reduction requirement. I think the lower the number in this table, the more it reduces torque during the shift.

That was my understanding as well. The maps even pattern themselves for it as well.

I lifted a bunch of values in the sport mode maps and I am still seeing 40% + torque reductions during the shifts. These were full load so 340Nm were limited to 210Nm every shift.

Ya, don't Bragg the N52 does not have the torque you guys have. It does spin up pretty nicely though.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by rjahl

That was my understanding as well. The maps even pattern themselves for it as well.

I lifted a bunch of values in the sport mode maps and I am still seeing 40% + torque reductions during the shifts. These were full load so 340Nm were limited to 210Nm every shift.

Ya, don't Bragg the N52 does not have the torque you guys have. It does spin up pretty nicely though.

The values for those tables can technically go up to 7.97 as long as there isn't another ceiling limiting it from elsewhere.

If you have a transmission that's shared with much higher torque models (so it's nowhere near its torque rating) and you have sufficient ongoing clutch shift pressure, you could probably get away with very little torque intervention during a shift.

I'd say if you didn't notice a difference by changing the values, I'd just make a drastic bump up, well above 1, and just carefully test, working your way up from low load.

[rjahl]

OK, Thanks.

I've run it with the Torque reduction disabled completely from the DME, so I know nothing will break. With the torque reduction disabled, Up-shifts were not too bad but loaded downshifts felt like I was going to break something.

I've seen the values above 1.0 in some of the torque management maps. In the GKE211 BIN it appears that my Sport Maps are above the D maps? If I use the X axis as a guide. X going to 6,800 RPM in the sport maps and only 6,100 end D. I also don't have the Aplina maps. There is also a complete set of maps between each torque reduction map, I assume these are for downshifts. Oh That has me thinking......

[_TB_]

Originally Posted by DWR

_TB_, since you have limited access to a full WinOLS, I would like to request that you included screen shots of the map, scalar, etc and the surrounding structure (location) in which it is found, when possible.

My understanding is that the converters are indeed different.

That characteristic curve has influence on parts of the calibration such as torque multiplication of engine torque, stall speed to determine torque reduction during "brake boosting", and more.

Yes I'll try to get that - but my time is pretty limited at the moment. ..But I'll try to get it done in the weekend.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by _TB_

Yes I'll try to get that - but my time is pretty limited at the moment. ..But I'll try to get it done in the weekend.

Yep, I know that. Take care of family and job first. Cheers

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

The values for those tables can technically go up to 7.97 as long as there isn't another ceiling limiting it from elsewhere.

If you have a transmission that's shared with much higher torque models (so it's nowhere near its torque rating) and you have sufficient ongoing clutch shift pressure, you could probably get away with very little torque intervention during a shift.

I'd say if you didn't notice a difference by changing the values, I'd just make a drastic bump up, well above 1, and just carefully test, working your way up from low load.

OK, so I finally managed to test a new file today. I added 0.15 to all of the torque control Sport mode maps.

Result, It turned off the torque reduction requests to the DME during all up-shifts Sport, Manual or D mode. Shifts are slower by about 40% or so, but I don't have enough logs to fully support that value. Downshifts still request a torque reduction. I've hypothesized that we had both up shift and down shift maps for the torque control. There is a similar 6X10 maps between each of the up shift maps.


Something else is going on here. Firstly, the one map is affecting sport, manual and D mode. Torque reduction is turned off on all of them and the shifts are slower. If I Simpy turn off the torque reduction from the DME I would get a good kick in the ass during most up-shifts.

Still digging.

[bradsm87]

Clemens at xHP has updated his public XDF with our latest finding (Torque Limit Per Gear) and my breakpoint tables and Shiftmap column headings plus he has kindly thrown in something new - Torque Limit General.

Thanks Clemens!

New XDF is up on the xHP site.

[bradsm87]

I've had another look at the Shiftmap throttle axis values and I now really do think that the axis are definitely ordered in table order. With that applied, the D mode related tables (XE, E, Heating modes, Uphill A1) share the same axis values (starting with 0, 20, 35) and the S mode related tables share the same axis values (starting with 0, 4, 20). The ACC, steeper uphill and suspected unused ones all share another set of axis values (starting with 0, 4, 18) in the Alpina calibration. The related tables sharing the same axis values has to be more than chance.

Unless there are any objections, I will define the initial BB hosted community XDF as above and I'll note in the release notes that the shiftmap axis addresses are yet to be tested/confirmed. If it was another type of item with any risk involved, it would be a different story.

[RBT-Tuning]

May someone here with an LCI 535d like to help out?

If I get a full read-out from one of these cars today, we can add them to the next release in one sweep with the 535i cars.

Just shoot me a PM!

thx!

[_TB_]

Originally Posted by RBT-Tuning

May someone here with an LCI 535d like to help out?

If I get a full read-out from one of these cars today, we can add them to the next release in one sweep with the 535i cars.

Just shoot me a PM!

thx!

Yes, i might have one..

[RBT-Tuning]

Originally Posted by _TB_

Yes, i might have one..

Already done, thx!

[335dsleeper]

Any update on the 35d TCU flash?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by RBT-Tuning

Already done, thx!

[_TB_]

Originally Posted by RBT-Tuning

Already done, thx!

Ok, will he (Kim) be part of the beta?

[RBT-Tuning]

Originally Posted by _TB_

Ok, will he (Kim) be part of the beta?

The maps will go online in a few hours in public beta state. As both the platform (5-Series, from the 535i Beta) and the Engine/Transmission combination (M57/6HP28) are already tested, theres no need for a closed beta.