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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?
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10-20-2008, 01:10 PM | #2355 | |
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Do you know otherwise? |
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10-20-2008, 01:28 PM | #2356 |
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I posted last week about my failing to get a promised update from 30.0.2 to 31.1. I held off posting other thoughts as I wanted more time to check them.
I suspect the garage reset my throttle adaptation. Previously at 1,500 or 2,000 rpm (3rd/4th gear MT) the car would accelerate at a "medium" rate for 300 to 400 revs and then boost would some in with a typical turbo rush. Now the boost comes in a much more linear fashion, a consistent build over 300 or 400 revs. I feel that below 3,000 rpm the torque is not the full 300lb/ft, over 3,000 is better. Very, very subjective, maybe 220lb/ft at lower revs? I don't get really bad performance, ie I can't imagine I'd be blown off by a Smart Car. I have not driven a pre-29.2 car. It sounds like these are great beasts, my impression is that my car is not such a beast. I wonder if cars built with 29.2 onwards have slightly different hardware, sure MDS80 vs MDS81 but maybe there are other subtle differences? Some people (like me) may have a engines that aren't as responsive as they should be but others seem to have much worse issues. Are there some variables we've missed?
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10-20-2008, 02:56 PM | #2357 | |
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First, D mode is useless for the purposes of this thread. You need to operate the car in M mode. So, anything you've determined to this point in D mode can be thrown out. Secondly, as has already been mentioned, it's possible your car has neither v81 nor 29.2. We believe that v29.2 was released some time in LATE March, which means you could have missed it. |
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10-20-2008, 07:41 PM | #2358 |
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Another LAG problem source
I wonder if any of the problems (especially those who think the "lag" appeared
without a change in their Progman) may be caused by this? Worth checking! http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/...p/B111407g.htm
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10-20-2008, 07:51 PM | #2359 |
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where are these vacum hoses located in the engine?
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10-20-2008, 07:57 PM | #2360 | |
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plant integration is probably the original software installed when they built it (?) |
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10-20-2008, 08:04 PM | #2361 | |
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10-20-2008, 10:53 PM | #2362 | |
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And let me say that I have years of experience building and racing various cars both on the drag strip and the road courses. I've autocrossed everything from Miata's to Mustang's to WRX's to BMW's to Supra's (turbos) to Integra's with several class championships under my belt. So I am no rookie or stranger to turbo dynamics. My theory is that post-29.2 works differently with v81 cars than v80 cars. Perhaps there were hardware changes to the wastegates eliminating the need to electronically hold them open. All I know is that I have none of the lag described by many on this thread. |
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10-20-2008, 11:44 PM | #2363 | |
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1. You have an xi. I have an i 2. You have a step. I have MT 3. You did ED. I didn't 1 and 2 have already been debunked by others in this thread. I don't know about 3... it's possible your car received some "special ED software blend" that those of us who either bought off the lot or ordered shipped to the dealer didn't get ... or as was suggested just a few posts earlier that your butt dyno is off . I'm not sure what to believe, but in reality all that matters is i was baited and switched by BMW and they delivered me a neutered car that plain as day does not meet (or exceed) their advertising.
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10-21-2008, 03:52 AM | #2365 | |
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I just wanted to let you know that my dealer have sent me a statement similar to the bolded in your post above. So, now I have two email. one from 3 weeks ago saying, there is a problem with your car and BMW AG are aware of It and working on a fix. Latest email saying, there is no problem. This is how all 335i will from now on performe. BMW have amended the character of the turbos and the boost pressure. All new 2009 335i will behave like this. To the latest email I replied: That's all peachy but i ordered mine in Febuary, nobody mentioned to me that there will be changes made to my car in comparison to the demo i drove in Feb. Basically, they are preparing for some owners to sue and have calculated that it will do them less financial harm then to rectify all cars worldwide.... Just like you predicted Nova... & |
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10-21-2008, 04:05 AM | #2366 | |
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I can only confirm that for myself once I get my new 335i, however (in April 2009). In any case it will be tuned more or less immediately... Alpina_B3_Lux
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10-21-2008, 08:50 AM | #2367 |
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My car is 10/07 build, I bought my E92 in March 2008 and at that time had the software updated because I had a Sirius radio installed. I am not sure what version was out then and I do not know what revision my car has now, but I do not THINK I have the dreaded lag. I think everyone is using the wrong word, LAG. I had many turbos in the past and turbo lag is either there or not. One does not have to guess at it. However, I do not believe in BMW's represented torque curve. My car has little pull until at least 2500- 3000 RPM's and when I compare it to the first 335i's I had driven back in 2007, my car definitely has less pull and responsiveness. I remember everyone saying what a beast the 335i was. So I when I got a 335i loaner in late 2007, I agreed, it was a beast. I even said to myself that I couldn’t get this car because I’d get into trouble with the Law or put myself in the hospital. But now with my 2008 E92, I would not say it’s a beast. Fast yes, but definitely toned down. It’s a very drivable car, no lag to me, but not the throw you back into the seat fast like the first 335i’s I had driven either. My take is that BMW did tone down the car for reliability concerns and that what we are experiencing as “Lag” will be the norm going forward.
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10-21-2008, 09:27 AM | #2368 | |
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I also, wonder if BMW has included NEGATIVE press and future lost sales in their calculations. After all, it looks like their sales to date are doing just swimmingly (link below) http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=316121 |
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10-21-2008, 09:29 AM | #2369 |
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Pavel,
Thanks for that update. Good luck and hopefully they realize what idiots they are, flip flopping like that. As far as I'm concerned, I guess I have three choices: - wait for Jim C to finally (if ever) put out Shark Edit and fix the damn car MYSELF - sell my car and take the depreciation hit and get the new S5 next year, or the upcoming S4 (both with supercharged 6), or save up and get the C63. - hope that something with a class action happens soon, if not to force our cars to be fixed, then to compensate us enough to go buy a proper car without taking such a financial hit as in scenario 2, above. Anyway, weren't there two people or so on here who were getting V31.1 this week? What's the deal there? |
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10-21-2008, 10:23 AM | #2370 | |
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You cannot check for that with steptronic in AT or DS mode, since the push on the gas pedal will most likely make the car shift. Try this: In 5th gear (steptronic: M5), cruise at ~35 mph (lugging the car and giving ~1500 RPM). Push the gas pedal 2/3 and leave it in that position. The car will accelerate and then, after ~1 second, will develop a second, bigger thrust. If you do this in high gear, it will have ~1800 RPM when the turbo power builds up. So, in contradiction to what you may think, there IS power below 2500 RPM. The problem is dynamic, not static. This behaviour is a direct result of the wastegates being more open and pressure building up more slowly. We call that LAG. Period. It was not (or barely) noticeable before Progman v29.2 as the cars turbos were optimized for this and not for maximum power. Even the dyno chart posted above (if it was correct) does not prove otherwise, as the RPM constantly changes through the measurement. This should also be added to the FAQ as it has been discussed at least for the third time already. |
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10-21-2008, 11:51 AM | #2371 | |
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Thanks for the explanation, but it’s amazing you have to do all that to notice this so called LAG?? And who drives their car in 5th gear at 35 MPH? Question: Is torque a function of RPM and gear selection or just RPM? I am not an expert by any means on automobiles, but I would think if max torque is spec'd at 1400 RPM's then it should be at that max level regardless of which gear you are in?
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10-21-2008, 12:14 PM | #2372 | |
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In real life, the situation is different. Since the torque (and thus: power) build up slowly now, you don't notice any power down low. Thus, the car feels less aggressive and seems to develop punch only at higher RPM. So, you have the power but can't make use of it. This is really annoying, as the cars turbos have been optimized to have punch down low - matter of fact, the gained power over the 330i at high RPM is not that impressive. The main difference between these cars is (or better: was) torque at low RPM. The problem is that neither the measurable torque curve nor 0-60 times would be impacted and thus, BMW can say: "Everything is up to specs.". However, you said that LAG is the wrong word, and really, it is the most techically exact description for this problem one could think of. About your second question: From a static standpoint, crank power is crank torque multiplied by RPM. This torque is transferred to the wheel through the gearbox. That is, the higher the gear the lower the Wheel Horse Power. The reason for a much-too-high 5th gear in the procedure I described was to deliberately lower WHP in order to keep the RPM from rising too fast so you could see that there is power even under 2500 RPM. |
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10-21-2008, 12:22 PM | #2373 | |
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There wouldn't be 108 pages of complaints and discussion if it only manifested in obscure situations. AT drivers who always use DS mode can avoid much of the problem because DS mode likes to keep the car above 3k rpm. However, this is still not to say that DS mode post-29.2 is as good as DS mode pre-29.2, because it is not. |
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10-21-2008, 12:33 PM | #2374 | |
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That being said, if there was a way to get BMW to take my car back, I would jump at the opportunity. The new S4 looks very nice, and I think it could get in the range of what I have come to expect out of the N54..... Sad thing though, to think about getting rid of a car that I was so excited about....which had so much potential.....really sucks the way BMW has gone about making these changes to the N54.....
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10-21-2008, 12:35 PM | #2375 | |
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Thx.
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10-21-2008, 12:41 PM | #2376 | |
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I also ran some tests - at the moment if I select gear M3 it will accelerate from 20-40mph in 3 seconds. No apparent lag with my v27 software (as expected). We'll see what it will do when they perform the update.
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