[DWR]

Attached is a script for the 8HP45. Hopefully, you will have better luck with it than I. Need to rename it 8HP45.winolsskript and save in the "skript" folder of WinOLS.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by DWR

Attached is a script for the 8HP45. Hopefully, you will have better luck with it than I. Need to rename it 8HP45.winolsskript and save in the "skript" folder of WinOLS.

Try this version,

Seems like some of the parameters are not accepted.

I used the comment // marker to show them.

No time tonight to do any more.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by rjahl

Try this version,

Seems like some of the parameters are not accepted.

I used the comment // marker to show them.

No time tonight to do any more.

Thanks, that works. I'll see if I can take it further. Several columns are null and can be eliminated.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by DWR

Thanks, that works. I'll see if I can take it further. Several columns are null and can be eliminated.

I tinkered with this a little tonight by adding addresses for the map and axis. Seems like the address is decimal not hex.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by rjahl

I tinkered with this a little tonight by adding addresses for the map and axis. Seems like the address is decimal not hex.

Exactly. Here an example that works for the 8HP45 original bin. Just one map, but it is proof of concept. Now, we need to automate the process.

Unfortunately, it does not work in the demo version of WinOLS. Still I think those of us working on this will benefit. Nice find.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by DWR

Exactly. Here an example that works for the 8HP45 original bin. Just one map, but it is proof of concept. Now, we need to automate the process.

Unfortunately, it does not work in the demo version of WinOLS. Still I think those of us working on this will benefit. Nice find.

I've written a script that will convert the CSV file to a the winols script.

Three problems.

The CSV file I have has corrupted some of the addresses. Every now and then it converted the Hex address data to scientific notation. I cant fix that without the original data

The winols script seems to crash my Winols. There is a record between row 250 and 350 that cases a crash.

The data in the bin does not line up. maybe I have the wrong version.

At least we know this conversion process works.

Sample script with 100 maps attached. As usual needs to be renamed to *.winolsskript


More later

[Len_Beach]

Sorry if I've missed it; why are you Guys exploring 8HP files?

[DWR]

Originally Posted by rjahl

I've written a script that will convert the CSV file to a the winols script.

Three problems.

The CSV file I have has corrupted some of the addresses. Every now and then it converted the Hex address data to scientific notation. I cant fix that without the original data

The winols script seems to crash my Winols. There is a record between row 250 and 350 that cases a crash.

The data in the bin does not line up. maybe I have the wrong version.

At least we know this conversion process works.

Sample script with 100 maps attached. As usual needs to be renamed to *.winolsskript


More latter

I did some home work also.
Had the similar results, except I have been filtering the data in Excel and use a macro to grab the data from cells.
.
The attached script is for the shift pressure maps and some 8X8 timing maps that could be confused with the pressure maps (just for rjahl ) . It does not crash and the addresses all seem to line up - I did not look at everything.

Here's a peek:


It does not work with WinOLS Demo version. And for some reason I can't seem to save the scripted file in my "custom" WinOLS version.

I will check into getting a cleaner CVS.

Any thoughts on making a script for TunerPro XDF? The XDF is more work, but I really prefer using the compare function. I can get more maps/tables on the screen. Many of these maps are interdependent and seeing them together is a benefit. WinOLS does not use the screen real estate as efficiently, IMO. And making "formulaic" modifications is easier in TunerPro.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Len_Beach

Sorry if I've missed it; why are you Guys exploring 8HP files?

To learn.

Here's an example true scenario. Noticed something in a VAG file first, because the VAG file is better structured. Then looked for it in 8HP45 file and found it. Never saw it in BMW 6HPxx stuff. But, and here's the kicker, it could be used to improve performance in a 6HPxx tune. Sorry if that seems a little cryptic.

Not enough info on 6HP - but we are going to solve that shortly

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by DWR

I did some home work also.
Had the similar results, except I have been filtering the data in Excel and use a macro to grab the data from cells.
.
The attached script is for the shift pressure maps and some 8X8 timing maps that could be confused with the pressure maps. It does not crash and the addresses all seem to line up - I did not look at everything.

Here's a peek:
Attachment 1630056

It does not work with WinOLS Demo version. And for some reason I can't seem to save the scripted file in my "custom" WinOLS version.

I will check into getting a cleaner CVS.

Any thoughts on making a script for TunerPro XDF? The XDF is more work, but I really prefer using the compare function. I can get more maps/tables on the screen. Many of these maps are interdependent and seeing them together is a benefit. WinOLS does not use the screen real estate as efficiently, IMO. And making "formulaic" modifications is easier.

Great work,

The problem with TunerPro is the limit on the number of folders. It's currently something like 300.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by rjahl

Great work,

The problem with TunerPro is the limit on the number of folders. It's currently something like 300.

I'm not that good, yet.

I actually see a different organization in my head than what is in the WinOLS files. All parameters per shift, by mode, various shift maps by mode, misc/other. That's a lot less than 300 folders. I do wish we could do sub-folders though.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by DWR

I'm not that good, yet.

I actually see a different organization in my head than what is in the WinOLS files. All parameters per shift, by mode, various shift maps by mode, misc/other. That's a lot less than 300 folders. I do wish we could do sub-folders though.

Actually the script to go from the CSV file to a Winols script is really easy. You just need to start with the original German field names and good hex address data.

It's the German that killed me. I kept missing the words that are spelled similar ,like signature for signatur

[Len_Beach]

Originally Posted by DWR

To learn.

Here's an example true scenario. Noticed something in a VAG file first, because the VAG file is better structured. Then looked for it in 8HP45 file and found it. Never saw it in BMW 6HPxx stuff. But, and here's the kicker, it could be used to improve performance in a 6HPxx tune. Sorry if that seems a little cryptic.

Not enough info on 6HP - but we are going to solve that shortly

Spot on!

Loving the persistence

[DWR]

Just a quick update: rjahl and I have been working on the scripting for an english version of the various TCU OLS files we have obtained. That is already proving to be very useful.

We found some maps that look to be important and yet not documented. Getting organized so that we can catalog a larger set of parameters with phases of the shift control strategy. For those who may not have been following along, rjahl has adjusted parameter(s) not in the xHP XDF with some very nice results. So, we are still progressing, all depending on free time we can carve out around family and work obligations.

One of the things some have complained about is delayed shifting around corners. That can be disabled.
Also, adaption of the driver style can be disabled so that shifting behavior is more predictable. Looks like we can increase the engine loading that is allowed when brake boosting at a stop. Just a short list of things that might be interesting...

[335dsleeper]

This is exciting.

Originally Posted by DWR

Looks like we can increase the engine loading that is allowed then brake boosting at a stop.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by DWR

Just a quick update: rjahl and I have been working on the scripting for an english version of the various TCU OLS files we have obtained. That is already proving to be very useful.

We found some maps that look to be important and yet not documented. Getting organized so that we can catalog a larger set of parameters with phases of the shift control strategy. For those who may not have been following along, rjahl has adjusted parameter(s) not in the xHP XDF with some very nice results. So, we are still progressing, all depending on free time we can carve out around family and work obligations.

One of the things some have complained about is delayed shifting around corners. That can be disabled.
Also, adaption of the driver style can be disabled so that shifting behavior is more predictable. Looks like we can increase the engine loading that is allowed when brake boosting at a stop. Just a short list of things that might be interesting...

Do you get a delayed shift around corners in all modes (D,S,Alpina)?, I only get that in Sport modes. While I almost never use sport mode, my thought was to raise the horizontal acceleration threshold to a higher level. That way you could still lift the throttle during a hard corner and not have the gearbox upshift, only to downshift again when you try to accurate after the corner.

When I'm driving in a spirited way, I usually move to manual mode. With the E85 the sport mode is just too aggressive and in some ways stupid and holds gears far too long.

Like DWR mentioned, we are just really starting to crack into this. The TCU has 4,300 maps to control the operations and It's going to take a little time to figure out.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by rjahl

When I'm driving in a spirited way, I usually move to manual mode. With the E85 the sport mode is just too aggressive and in some ways stupid and holds gears far too long.
.

I guess it depends upon what aspects of the shift we are talking about. In the E90, sport and manual mode share many of the same maps (not shift points). I assumed it was similar in the E85. I'm really getting interested in going the Alpina route for TCU tuning because of the increased separation between the modes.

I've asked @_TB_ to give us a few hints on how to do that, since he has done so and I would like NOT to reinvent the wheel, and continue our current investigations without delay. Still hoping for a reply.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by DWR

I guess it depends upon what aspects of the shift we are talking about. In the E90, sport and manual mode share many of the same maps (not shift points). I assumed it was similar in the E85. I'm really getting interested in going the Alpina route for TCU tuning because of the increased separation between the modes.

I've asked @_TB_ to give us a few hints on how to do that, since he has done so and I would like NOT to reinvent the wheel, and continue our current investigations without delay. Still hoping for a reply.

Yes, the E85 and E90/E60 gasoline variants are pretty similar. I'm seeing two type of shifts. Sport and Regular but I'm not sure where the Quickshift fits into the picture. IS Quickshift just another way of saying Sport mode/manual mode?

Forgive my ignorance, But I'm not sure what the Alpina mode really is. From the maps, it looks like an extreme Sport mode.

On the other front, I have managed to move about 2,000 of the 4,300 maps from the E60 OLS file into my E85 file. Probably enough to start digging in and taking a close look at the E85 file.

I've also had to take all of the Zeit 1 values in my tune back to stock. After running modified values for over two weeks, the trans started to make really ugly up shifts in D mode. Felt like the off going clutch was behind the oncoming clutch. Moved those value back to stock and all was good. I'm not a big believer in the Zeit 1 stuff anyways. Makes the tranny go bang but only partially helps with the actual shift times.

I'm starting to think that the grinding time or deceleration time is managed by a map that controls total torque or inertia rather than time. As an example, with elevated shift pressures, my part load shift times are shorter but full load shifts hardly changed. Part load 4,000 RPM shifts are faster than a full load 7,000 RPM shift. Faster being less bump in the bum. I guess I should do some math on the logged deceleration. Maybe go back and look at what the TCC is doing as well.

This has me wondering why we can find inertia values for both the engine and transmission in the OLS.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by rjahl

Yes, the E85 and E90/E60 gasoline variants are pretty similar. I'm seeing two type of shifts. Sport and Regular but I'm not sure where the Quickshift fits into the picture. IS Quickshift just another way of saying Sport mode/manual mode?

Perhaps, it is another way to say Alpina.

Originally Posted by rjahl

Forgive my ignorance, But I'm not sure what the Alpina mode really is. From the maps, it looks like an extreme Sport mode.

While we can manipulate shift points in all 3 modes, that's not true for other tuning parameters. Alpina appears to rectify that. Whether the Alpina is tuned for aggressive shifts in M mode is immaterial to me because I'm assuming it can be tuned to whatever we want. Someone please correct me if I have gotten this wrong.

Originally Posted by rjahl

On the other front, I have managed to move about 2,000 of the 4,300 maps from the E60 OLS file into my E85 file. Probably enough to start digging in and taking a close look at the E85 file.

Nice job. I'm feeling like a slacker.

Originally Posted by rjahl

I've also had to take all of the Zeit 1 values in my tune back to stock. After running modified values for over two weeks, the trans started to make really ugly up shifts in D mode. Felt like the off going clutch was behind the oncoming clutch. Moved those value back to stock and all was good. I'm not a big believer in the Zeit 1 stuff anyways. Makes the tranny go bang but only partially helps with the actual shift times.

Yes, I have to agree. I think we are dealing with the torque transfer phase here. Bring the oncoming clutch in sooner is great, as long as the off going clutch can follow. Otherwise, the TCU adaptions will try to compensate and if they can't increased wear and unnecessary harshness will result.

Originally Posted by rjahl

I'm starting to think that the grinding time or deceleration time is managed by a map that controls total torque or inertia rather than time. As an example, with elevated shift pressures, my part load shift times are shorter but full load shifts hardly changed. Part load 4,000 RPM shifts are faster than a full load 7,000 RPM shift. Faster being less bump in the bum. I guess I should do some math on the logged deceleration. Maybe go back and look at what the TCC is doing as well.

Isn't "grinding" time in the GLS part of the control? That's the torque transfer phase. That's different than deceleration of the inertia phase. What you describe is interesting. Did you increases pressure with a multiplier? I have had fairly predictable results adjusting the "shifting pressure" vs engine torque vs speed. Been able to soften part throttle shifts while firming up WOT.

Originally Posted by rjahl

This has me wondering why we can find inertia values for both the engine and transmission in the OLS.

Let's also note that the transmission inertia values are gear by gear. While the engine inertia is all on input side of the transmission, the transmission itself has inertial components on both sides of the gear change. Every gear change involves a different set of inertial components.

[rjahl]

As I've mentioned before, we need to create a glossary of terms for this project. So many acronyms and functions, it's hard to keep track.

I don't think QuickShift and Alpina are similar. The first gen 6HP clearly only had two sets of pressure maps while the Second gen has three, D,S and Alpina.

Looking at the maps, I'm beginning to wonder if Quickshift is a method used to shift quickly through the gears. For instance a "quickshift" from 6 to 3rd. The second generation gearbox can do that directly while the first gen needs to shift through each gear 6>5, 5>4,4>3. It does this much quicker than normal shift patterns. Could be wrong, but it's the theory for the day.

There are at least two sets of maps that I know are missing from the E60 OLS file. Torque management and the Zeit 1. I think the Zeit 1 maps are just different being 4x4 vs 4x1.

I need to rebuild the ZF8HP OLS and VAG 6HP OLS files with the scripts so I can compare them against what I am seeing in the E60 diesel /E85 maps.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by DWR

Did you increases pressure with a multiplier? I have had fairly predictable results adjusting the "shifting pressure" vs engine torque vs speed. Been able to soften part throttle shifts while firming up WOT.

.

Yes, I used a multiplier for the shift pressure. I am up to about 20% additive on the upper ranges. Thinking about the pressure maps again, maybe I've been too conservative. The pressure maps seems exponential in nature and adding 20% just may not be enough. I'd like to get to a point where I can feel a bump on those shifts then work on the torque control.

Inertia data, I have found a map for the inertia per gear as well as the drive train and engine.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by rjahl

I don't think QuickShift and Alpina are similar. The first gen 6HP clearly only had two sets of pressure maps while the Second gen has three, D,S and Alpina.

Looking at the maps, I'm beginning to wonder if Quickshift is a method used to shift quickly through the gears. For instance a "quickshift" from 6 to 3rd. The second generation gearbox can do that directly while the first gen needs to shift through each gear 6>5, 5>4,4>3. It does this much quicker than normal shift patterns. Could be wrong, but it's the theory for the day.

OK, number of pressure maps negates my theory.

I like your theory. And now I understand why you asked about the Alpina.