[D_o_S]

Thanks for the replies...

Ya, I will admit, I have been in the position of Mr. Nice Guy historically - and yes, it wasn't so nice... or, better said, I did have secondary intentions behind my niceness...

I have moved on from that stage, and I am certainly not entertaining her on the level of being a nice guy. I just, honestly, think that she's nice. And, it's about understanding, and my senses could very well be tricking me...

She could be narcissistic and centered... she could just be using me...

But then again, I see what I see, and it just doesn't play out that way, in my eyes. If she wanted to use me, if she wanted to be narcissistic... then she would probably throw a lot more stuff my way... I.e. if you get me this and that, I will be all the nicer to you...
You're not good enough for me if you don't do this... etc etc.

All in all, when and if I am to judge, it does seem like she has just had a different upbringing. Imagine if your parents always told you not to ask questions... or if your significant other told you to stop asking about how they are, always stalking them... Would you open up in your relationship and start asking "How are you"?

If you were brought up with a "cannot-do" mentality, would you switch just because you have a new partner?? I dunno... this is what I feel at the moment.

And all in all, I want to give her the chance to understand how I feel. I don't want to be treated like a psychic, and similarly, I don't expect the same from her ("Hey, you should have read my mind!"). So, if we can talk it out... reconcile and respect our differences... then I think I will be "pleased".

If we cannot talk this out, then why bother anymore?

However, I'm not going to change the way I behave towards her because I am not getting something from her - I will be the one choosing how I behave because of ME, not because of the outside world.

A warrior acts, only a fool reacts.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Thanks for the replies...

Ya, I will admit, I have been in the position of Mr. Nice Guy historically - and yes, it wasn't so nice... or, better said, I did have secondary intentions behind my niceness...

I have moved on from that stage, and I am certainly not entertaining her on the level of being a nice guy. I just, honestly, think that she's nice. And, it's about understanding, and my senses could very well be tricking me...

She could be narcissistic and centered... she could just be using me...

But then again, I see what I see, and it just doesn't play out that way, in my eyes. If she wanted to use me, if she wanted to be narcissistic... then she would probably throw a lot more stuff my way... I.e. if you get me this and that, I will be all the nicer to you...
You're not good enough for me if you don't do this... etc etc.

All in all, when and if I am to judge, it does seem like she has just had a different upbringing. Imagine if your parents always told you not to ask questions... or if your significant other told you to stop asking about how they are, always stalking them... Would you open up in your relationship and start asking "How are you"?

If you were brought up with a "cannot-do" mentality, would you switch just because you have a new partner?? I dunno... this is what I feel at the moment.

And all in all, I want to give her the chance to understand how I feel. I don't want to be treated like a psychic, and similarly, I don't expect the same from her ("Hey, you should have read my mind!"). So, if we can talk it out... reconcile and respect our differences... then I think I will be "pleased".

If we cannot talk this out, then why bother anymore?

However, I'm not going to change the way I behave towards her because I am not getting something from her - I will be the one choosing how I behave because of ME, not because of the outside world.

A warrior acts, only a fool reacts.

dude, what?

she isnt in to you. at best you are in the friendzone. at worst, she doesnt even care if you guys are friends but doesnt know a good way to tell you to stop bothering her. Although, imo, shes done a pretty good job of telling you that she doesnt want to hang out.

It has nothing to do with her upbringing, has nothing to do with her not knowing how you feel (she knows you wanna bang). it has everything to do with her not being in to you.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Thanks for the replies...

Ya, I will admit, I have been in the position of Mr. Nice Guy historically - and yes, it wasn't so nice... or, better said, I did have secondary intentions behind my niceness...

I have moved on from that stage, and I am certainly not entertaining her on the level of being a nice guy. I just, honestly, think that she's nice. And, it's about understanding, and my senses could very well be tricking me...

She could be narcissistic and centered... she could just be using me...

But then again, I see what I see, and it just doesn't play out that way, in my eyes. If she wanted to use me, if she wanted to be narcissistic... then she would probably throw a lot more stuff my way... I.e. if you get me this and that, I will be all the nicer to you...
You're not good enough for me if you don't do this... etc etc.

All in all, when and if I am to judge, it does seem like she has just had a different upbringing. Imagine if your parents always told you not to ask questions... or if your significant other told you to stop asking about how they are, always stalking them... Would you open up in your relationship and start asking "How are you"?

If you were brought up with a "cannot-do" mentality, would you switch just because you have a new partner?? I dunno... this is what I feel at the moment.

And all in all, I want to give her the chance to understand how I feel. I don't want to be treated like a psychic, and similarly, I don't expect the same from her ("Hey, you should have read my mind!"). So, if we can talk it out... reconcile and respect our differences... then I think I will be "pleased".

If we cannot talk this out, then why bother anymore?

However, I'm not going to change the way I behave towards her because I am not getting something from her - I will be the one choosing how I behave because of ME, not because of the outside world.

A warrior acts, only a fool reacts.

So have the talk already. Sheesh. It's been months. Are you nervous about what her response will be?

I hear what you are saying about not changing your behaviors towards her, but let me ask you this: If you have "the talk" and she comes back with "You're just a super nice guy and a good friend, but I have absolutely zero interest in you romantically. In fact, I'm dating this great guy right now. So you and I always have been and always will be friends but trust me, there is exactly zero chance of anything romantic happening." Do you continue to behave exactly the same towards her as you have been?

[No one]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

All in all, when and if I am to judge, it does seem like she has just had a different upbringing. Imagine if your parents always told you not to ask questions... or if your significant other told you to stop asking about how they are, always stalking them... Would you open up in your relationship and start asking "How are you"?

Being delicate and being indifferent aren't the same thing. If she doesn't bother you requesting updates on how you feel, it doesn't mean she doesn't care. But if she skips her chance, say, you call her and she doesn't ask (having been told you were ill) it's not so good.

Originally Posted by D_o_S

And all in all, I want to give her the chance to understand how I feel. I don't want to be treated like a psychic, and similarly, I don't expect the same from her ("Hey, you should have read my mind!"). So, if we can talk it out... reconcile and respect our differences... then I think I will be "pleased".

This can be a matter of upbringing. Or just intelligence. A girl can be too shy to let you know she's interested or just too dumb to appreciate your delicacy: while you are waiting for her sign of being ready to elaborate your acquaintance to a higher level she might be frustrated you don't make your advances. If she happened to get mad just out of nothing while you were being nice and patient that should be it: you just missed your chance and made her wonder (what you want then, if she's attractive). Some girls like it simple, to be treated just inconsiderately.

Originally Posted by D_o_S

However, I'm not going to change the way I behave towards her because I am not getting something from her - I will be the one choosing how I behave because of ME, not because of the outside world.

It's all right if you value what you get. It's not so right if your hopes are in vain.

Originally Posted by D_o_S

A warrior acts, only a fool reacts.

This reminds me of a "Taxi" film scene. Boys tell him to stop contemplating and go find it out by simply kissing her: "Take it as a lottery: you either win or lose. You'll know it immediately anyway!". He returns with a bruise on his face: "He needs another draw!".

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

If you have "the talk" and she comes back with "You're just a super nice guy and a good friend, but I have absolutely zero interest in you romantically. In fact, I'm dating this great guy right now."

He's the guy she's dating: she had no better Valentine's option, apparently. It's just she might be hating herself for that (having this option as her best one).

[sygazelle]

I've read your multi-page saga and I have some advice.

Make the move and do it next time you see her. This has gone on long enough. You will know instantly if she is of like mind or not. Either way, you win and she wins. Continuing this game you two are playing with each other is painful for you, for her, and for us!

Check out this link. Maybe it will help you grow some balls and just go take a chance. If she says no, respect that answer and move on.

Good luck!

https://www.themodernman.com/blog/sh...irst-move.html

[D_o_S]

No one, thank you for your post, it's quite fitting in terms of what I feel.

DETRoadster - yes, I will behave *more or less* the way I have been behaving. I think I would just let her know that I respect her freedom and let her know that if she needs space that I respect that...

Soooo... I'm just trying to live the journey, I'm not here for the outcome... maybe I'm weird, but that's me... the whole purpose of this thread at the outset, I believe, was to understand her, not to rate her or assess if we're friend or partner... Might sound like strange intentions, but whatever.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

No one, thank you for your post, it's quite fitting in terms of what I feel.

DETRoadster - yes, I will behave *more or less* the way I have been behaving. I think I would just let her know that I respect her freedom and let her know that if she needs space that I respect that...

Soooo... I'm just trying to live the journey, I'm not here for the outcome... maybe I'm weird, but that's me... the whole purpose of this thread at the outset, I believe, was to understand her, not to rate her or assess if we're friend or partner... Might sound like strange intentions, but whatever.

you need to livestream this conversation so we can live bet it.

I'll start by putting $20 down on her saying "what are you talking about, we arent dating" when you tell her she can have freedom and space.

[upstatedoc]

I'm good for 20

[kimbow]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

I would like to "appreciate" this post but some may find it insensitive.

I appreciated it, someone needs to get a life And get a proper M car, turn up the stereo, open the windows and drive through a long tunnel listening to Iron Maiden

[KevinC]

Pass!

[kimbow]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Update... I don't want to leave you guys out in the cold, but we haven't had the aforementioned conversation yet.

A lot has happened in between, I saw her post covid and again had a strange encounter: given the fact that we hadn't seen each other for a while and we were supposed to go to out to dinner with friends, she didn't even say hello in the doorway (maybe I'm being too harsh... my memory would like to be merciful), but instead said "you can throw out the garbage" and "we're taking my car"... upon which she didn't even say anything to me in the car? I mean, so long as I was trying to converse with her, it was "a little here, a little there", but if I was silent (and as I say, we hadn't seen each other in a while), she didn't ask me how I am... what's up, etc.

Soooooo, I helped her out with some stuff (simp? nice guy? yeah whatever)...

Saw her since then a few times, she called me a few times and everything was "good"... we had some good, positive conversations, we both had laughs...

I had a 4 year "hobby" project fail on me one week (I was supposed to meet some certification deadlines for a product, which I had no time for), I told her "I had failed" and she just said "yeah, life goes on"... It sort of hurt me, but not much, I was expecting the project to fail...

I took her out for Valentine's, which was nice - had a nice dinner, a good conversation... She said she is happy to have me in her life, that she is grateful for how I support her... I thanked her for being who she is...

And lo and behold, I fall sick this week... and she doesn't ask me how I am? I was planning on having this convo with her as well, as she almost never asks me how I am... which on the level of day to day life I can understand... but when your loved one is sick, do you just go by, not noticing? Waiting for them to tell you how they feel? So, I think I will bring up this convo first... and then proceed regarding the "exercise and supportive side of things"...

At the end of the day, we live in a society where both man and woman can make it through life without ever needing anybody. That doesn't mean they should.

Grow a pair, a large pair sir

[kimbow]

Originally Posted by KevinC

Pass!

Id love a tyre size starting with a 3 but they would rub my arches

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

ive said this before, but ill say it again

if you've lost the sexual desire in the early stages, there is absolutely
NO recovering from this...dude you can't live your life like this. cut this hoe off and move on. id rather marry my right hand then deal with BS like this. and you aint even getting any. just stress and problems in ur life

[upstatedoc]

Originally Posted by kimbow

I appreciated it, someone needs to get a life And get a proper M car, turn up the stereo, open the windows and drive through a long tunnel listening to Iron Maiden

Now that's what I'm talking about

[kimbow]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

Now that's what I'm talking about

Boo yah mamma!!

[rebekahb]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Soooo... I'm just trying to live the journey, I'm not here for the outcome... maybe I'm weird

If you're not here for the outcome then why in the world are you putting up with this? You're selling yourself short. Why put energy into someone who can't even have the decency to ask how you feel? It's a simple question and basic manners.


DETRoadster I should be working but instead sitting in my car reading a page and a half shaking my head. Thanks buddy

[TiMSport]

^^^ Don't pretend you had something better to do rebekahb .

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by rebekahb

If you're not here for the outcome then why in the world are you putting up with this? You're selling yourself short. Why put energy into someone who can't even have the decency to ask how you feel? It's a simple question and basic manners.


DETRoadster I should be working but instead sitting in my car reading a page and a half shaking my head. Thanks buddy

THANK YOU for noticing and calling that out.

What I dont get is the OP has spent a dozen pages talking about working up the courage to have "the talk" with her about his needs in the "relationship", and is now backpedaling and saying he's totally fine with whatever it is you call this arrangement. Status quo. He's not concerned with getting anything further out of it and wouldn't behave any differently if she told him there's no romantic future.

So then why the need to have "the talk?" It's total BS! I'm not sure if the OP has actually convinced himself that he's happy and wants nothing more? But then why come on here and post about this whole thing in the first place? Clearly, none of us are convinced by his excuses. Dude is going in circles making excuses on top if excuses. He's desperately in love with her and will literally allow her to do and say anything just so that he can keep her in his life. The only question in my mind is whether he's actually still hanging onto hope for a romantic future with her, or is he actually so beaten into submission that he actually understands there's no future and holds so little value in himself that he's willing to accept that and still stick around just to be near her. It's sad either way.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

THANK YOU for noticing and calling that out.

What I dont get is the OP has spent a dozen pages talking about working up the courage to have "the talk" with her about his needs in the "relationship", and is now backpedaling and saying he's totally fine with whatever it is you call this arrangement. Status quo. He's not concerned with getting anything further out of it and wouldn't behave any differently if she told him there's no romantic future.

So then why the need to have "the talk?" It's total BS! I'm not sure if the OP has actually convinced himself that he's happy and wants nothing more? But then why come on here and post about this whole thing in the first place? Clearly, none of us are convinced by his excuses. Dude is going in circles making excuses on top if excuses. He's desperately in love with her and will literally allow her to do and say anything just so that he can keep her in his life. The only question in my mind is whether he's actually still hanging onto hope for a romantic future with her, or is he actually so beaten into submission that he actually understands there's no future and holds so little value in himself that he's willing to accept that and still stick around just to be near her. It's sad either way.

hes saying that because he knows what we are saying is true but he doesnt want to believe it. So when it turns out to be confirmed true to him, he can say "no big deal" and carry on doing, or in this case not doing, what hes been doing.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

hes saying that because he knows what we are saying is true but he doesnt want to believe it. So when it turns out to be confirmed true to him, he can say "no big deal" and carry on doing, or in this case not doing, what hes been doing.

Yeah, he does seem to be setting the stage to be "OK" with any outcome, doesnt he.

[antgenn]

The more pages it goes here the more I am getting convinced that it's a classic trolling. It cannot be real! But if it is, it's... My vocabulary is too short to find the right words. Beyond sad? Beyond pathetic? Why waste your life? It's too short...

[D_o_S]

Ugh... I'm not going to defend myself here, as I find it rather meaningless... but, in brief:

Yes, indeed, what does her "yes" or "no" change? Or, moreover, what is it supposed to change?

In my original post, I asked if I can communicate with her better. The thread derailled into: "ask her if she's into you, if yes, bang her and sort things out", or "if she's not into you, why spend your time with her?" (this ofc spawns more questions, like can a man have a female friend without wanting to bang her, etc etc etc... don't want to go there)

Frankly, I am wondering how to be a better person. If I am not communicating clearly, wittingly, honestly, assertively, I want to learn how to do so. So I wrote my post, wondering if I could do better... say things differently, act differently...

Or if I ought just to accept the way she is...

I want to promote understanding where possible, I want to understand her and be understood. So that's why I've repeatedly said: I will handle these situations and give her a chance. If she doesn't want to change, I will respect it. Will I remove myself from some situations in the future? Maybe. But will I stop being myself, well, um no...