[houtan]

Originally Posted by Bours

Why did you drop the protune for jb4. Did you dislike something about it ?

On 91 the protune was awesome absolutely awesome. We kept hitting stumbling blocks on E50 though so I switched to JB4.

But, I was just reviewing my logs that are in the thread that I linked to a few posts earlier, and I may be overlooking something. The new 91 octane protune i tested has better boost than my current JB4 E50 maxed out map 6 tune, with both having similar timing! The advantage of E50 on the protune was higher timing, and it is definitely faster than the 91 protune. But now that I am looking at it, my most recent 91 tune may be faster than my E50 jb4 map6 tune.

also, got your PM. figured I would reply to the thread since it was the same subject.

[Bours]

Originally Posted by houtan

On 91 the protune was awesome absolutely awesome. We kept hitting stumbling blocks on E50 though so I switched to JB4.

But, I was just reviewing my logs that are in the thread that I linked to a few posts earlier, and I may be overlooking something. The new 91 octane protune i tested has better boost than my current JB4 E50 maxed out map 6 tune, with both having similar timing! The advantage of E50 on the protune was higher timing, and it is definitely faster than the 91 protune. But now that I am looking at it, my most recent 91 tune may be faster than my E50 jb4 map6 tune.

also, got your PM. figured I would reply to the thread since it was the same subject.

Yea perfect thank you for your input i want to get a protune but i heard they stumble a lot and it might be really long to perfectly dial the car sometimes. I use my car a lot and work a lot so dont want to send a ton of logs to them !

[houtan]

Are you planning on a pump flash or ethanol blend? If pump, I wouldn't worry at all. Yes you will probably have to do five to ten revisions, but it shouldn't impact normal driving. On ethanol, I have yet to test the latest flash, but even then, the stumble/misfires would occur at WOT, not cruising around.

[Bours]

Originally Posted by houtan

Are you planning on a pump flash or ethanol blend? If pump, I wouldn't worry at all. Yes you will probably have to do five to ten revisions, but it shouldn't impact normal driving. On ethanol, I have yet to test the latest flash, but even then, the stumble/misfires would occur at WOT, not cruising around.

Im fbo and plan on running only 93 oct until spring when i will upgrade the oem turbo. The pump tune made your car faster ?

[Turbod]

The PTF custom pump tune will target much higher boost levels with 93 octane and should feel a lot better than map 2 with the JB4.

[CantCatchMe]

Boost on the Cobb was more consistent I've tend to notice that as well over the JB4. However, in the long run its better to use the JB4 when upgrading the turbo anyways.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by CantCatchMe

in the long run its better to use the JB4 when upgrading the turbo anyways.

Why?

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by houtan

On 91 the protune was awesome absolutely awesome. We kept hitting stumbling blocks on E50 though so I switched to JB4.

Do you have upgraded LPFP? I have OEM LPFP but could not overcome misfires w/ PTF tune on anything higher than E30, which is where I ended up.

[CantCatchMe]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Why?

Only because to take control of the BEF on a stage 2 Pure turbo. JB4 is great for boost control on an upgraded turbo as well. You can't take the full potential of the turbo with just a Cobb. Unless, MHD comes out with good developments on the flash tool if they complete it!

[houtan]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Do you have upgraded LPFP? I have OEM LPFP but could not overcome misfires w/ PTF tune on anything higher than E30, which is where I ended up.

So you dont have any issues on e30?

Im still on stock LPFP. With the pure stage 2 I'm pretty sure you need an upgraded LPFP to run higher E content.

You can do PTF flash tune with the pure stage 2 and have a very fast car. The reason why people say you will get more with the jb4 is because the stock TMAP sensor can only read up to 21.5ish psi. If you want to boost more, the Jb4 allows you to run the N20 TMAP sensor, which can read much higher boost. also, to run higher boost, most need to run an ethanol blend, which the jb4 does without issue.

tbh, 20psi is probably around 500whp with the pure stage 2, which would be plenty for me. I don't think running 20psi is possible on straight 91 octane though. On the stock turbo, i think my car may be faster on my 91 etune vs my E50 jb4 map 6 tune based on looking back over my logs. not sure how, but the boost is higher and avg ignition is less than 1.

[trixdout]

Originally Posted by CantCatchMe

Only because to take control of the BEF on a stage 2 Pure turbo. JB4 is great for boost control on an upgraded turbo as well. You can't take the full potential of the turbo with just a Cobb. Unless, MHD comes out with good developments on the flash tool if they complete it!

Who told you this? All the paramters can be manipulated whereas the jb4 primarily works with the boost. The cobb can do that and much more.

Honestly you need a good tuner if you had a shitty time with a Cobb. You can't just edit the timing and fueling for certain map numbers. There are alot more variable that need to be edited to make it smooth and not have hickups.

Every tuner is like a chef, no two same dishes will be the same in taste. (if you get my drift, couldn't word that right).

[CantCatchMe]

Originally Posted by trixdout

Who told you this? All the paramters can be manipulated whereas the jb4 primarily works with the boost. The cobb can do that and much more.

Honestly you need a good tuner if you had a shitty time with a Cobb. You can't just edit the timing and fueling for certain map numbers. There are alot more variable that need to be edited to make it smooth and not have hickups.

Every tuner is like a chef, no two same dishes will be the same in taste. (if you get my drift, couldn't word that right).

Go do some reading on N54tech, you'll understand it better. I liked the Cobb only because it was stock like smooth power and it shows me what's going on with timing 1-6 cylinders.

In the end, again, it's better to run a BEF via Cobb on an upgraded turbo. You can't run just a Cobb on PS2, ask everyone. There's too many issues that even the 'best' tuners are having issues. You want to run E85 and a TBI, you'll be running blind on boost. Take a read on N54tech, plenty of good information. You're welcome.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by CantCatchMe

Go do some reading on N54tech, you'll understand it better. I liked the Cobb only because it was stock like smooth power and it shows me what's going on with timing 1-6 cylinders.

In the end, again, it's better to run a BEF via Cobb on an upgraded turbo. You can't run just a Cobb on PS2, ask everyone. There's too many issues that even the 'best' tuners are having issues. You want to run E85 and a TBI, you'll be running blind on boost. Take a read on N54tech, plenty of good information. You're welcome.

Just going to clarify your post.

you can definitely run stand alone cobb flash with a pure stage 2 on pump fuel (91 or 93). There are two things to consider though. 1. you may be limited in the amount of boost you can run due to the lower octane. Switching to E50 as far as I've seen is not an option, so if you hit an octane limit, thats as far as you can go. 2. you will be limited to 21.5ish psi due to the limitation of the N55 tmap sensor.

For number 1, On my stock turbo, my 91 octane flash tune peaks at 20 psi, where the turbo is very inefficient, and my logs are still clean. I am working on getting a log from a guy running flash only 20psi pure stage 2 on pump gas and he says the logs are clean. either way, it seems like running close to 20 psi may possible.

For number 2, there are very few E series n55s running higher than 20ish psi successfully. Even with the JB4, we are seeing misfire issues at 20 psi. It's unfortunate because there is more boost left in the turbo.

It would be nice to see a flash only pure stage 2 log on pump gas, so hopefully someone can get their hands on one.

100% agree there is a ton of good information on n54tech.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by Bours

Im fbo and plan on running only 93 oct until spring when i will upgrade the oem turbo. The pump tune made your car faster ?

Sorry, missed this.

My ptf pump tune is faster than the ots maps and possibly faster than my jb4 map 6 e50 tune. I am going to load my ptf pump flash and grab a log with jb4 on map 4. Not sure if it wilk work the same as with the jb4 removed, but I should know soon haha.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by houtan

So you dont have any issues on e30?

Im still on stock LPFP. With the pure stage 2 I'm pretty sure you need an upgraded LPFP to run higher E content.

You can do PTF flash tune with the pure stage 2 and have a very fast car. The reason why people say you will get more with the jb4 is because the stock TMAP sensor can only read up to 21.5ish psi. If you want to boost more, the Jb4 allows you to run the N20 TMAP sensor, which can read much higher boost. also, to run higher boost, most need to run an ethanol blend, which the jb4 does without issue.

tbh, 20psi is probably around 500whp with the pure stage 2, which would be plenty for me. I don't think running 20psi is possible on straight 91 octane though. On the stock turbo, i think my car may be faster on my 91 etune vs my E50 jb4 map 6 tune based on looking back over my logs. not sure how, but the boost is higher and avg ignition is less than 1.

Thanks for explaining that.

I have stage 2 turbo w/ inlet and DV+, FMIC and CP, PTF protune. OEM LPFP, DP and exhaust. No JB4.

PTF protune on 91 octane was great, but dyno a bit disappointing at 340 WHP (see this thread). Had all sorts of trouble tuning for ethanol blends. Installed stage 2 LPFP but could not get rid of pesky warning lights, even after installing new oversized battery and consulting with Steve at Fuel-It, so uninstalled it. It was misfire city on E40 and E50 on OEM LPFP, hard limps and everything. Just finished E30 tune a few days ago and so far so good. Car feels really smooth. Even had some minor hiccups on E33, and Dzenno and I both concluded that E30 is the limit on my car. I'm at 20 PSI on E30, 19 PSI on 91 octane. Gonna drive it like this for a while and then repeat the dyno to see what kind of numbers I get. No way I get anything close to 500 though.

[CantCatchMe]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Thanks for explaining that.

I have stage 2 turbo w/ inlet and DV+, FMIC and CP, PTF protune. OEM LPFP, DP and exhaust. No JB4.

PTF protune on 91 octane was great, but dyno a bit disappointing at 340 WHP (see this thread). Had all sorts of trouble tuning for ethanol blends. Installed stage 2 LPFP but could not get rid of pesky warning lights, even after installing new oversized battery and consulting with Steve at Fuel-It, so uninstalled it. It was misfire city on E40 and E50 on OEM LPFP, hard limps and everything. Just finished E30 tune a few days ago and so far so good. Car feels really smooth. Even had some minor hiccups on E33, and Dzenno and I both concluded that E30 is the limit on my car. I'm at 20 PSI on E30, 19 PSI on 91 octane. Gonna drive it like this for a while and then repeat the dyno to see what kind of numbers I get. No way I get anything close to 500 though.

I could definitely see 450-465whp since 91 isn't good enough fuel still. I'll buy you some 93 and 94 to send it over to you. That's good though you finally had some resolution at least on E30 with no more codes.

[CantCatchMe]

Originally Posted by houtan

Just going to clarify your post.

you can definitely run stand alone cobb flash with a pure stage 2 on pump fuel (91 or 93). There are two things to consider though. 1. you may be limited in the amount of boost you can run due to the lower octane. Switching to E50 as far as I've seen is not an option, so if you hit an octane limit, thats as far as you can go. 2. you will be limited to 21.5ish psi due to the limitation of the N55 tmap sensor.

For number 1, On my stock turbo, my 91 octane flash tune peaks at 20 psi, where the turbo is very inefficient, and my logs are still clean. I am working on getting a log from a guy running flash only 20psi pure stage 2 on pump gas and he says the logs are clean. either way, it seems like running close to 20 psi may possible.

For number 2, there are very few E series n55s running higher than 20ish psi successfully. Even with the JB4, we are seeing misfire issues at 20 psi. It's unfortunate because there is more boost left in the turbo.

It would be nice to see a flash only pure stage 2 log on pump gas, so hopefully someone can get their hands on one.

100% agree there is a ton of good information on n54tech.

True on every point. I also like the fact there's boost safety, boost control, and oil protection program on the JB4.

Again my post was about maximizing the PS2 FBO on E85. If you just want a pump tune, get the protune and you'll be satisfied. You can also try BMS flash on pump as well to compare which one is better for the needs of the driver.

Personally, I'll be using the 93 and E50 maps in order to enjoy the PS2.

[Ozzie335i]

Originally Posted by CantCatchMe

I could definitely see 450-465whp since 91 isn't good enough fuel still. I'll buy you some 93 and 94 to send it over to you. That's good though you finally had some resolution at least on E30 with no more codes.

The max pump octane level in the fuel we end up with is directly proportional to the people we elect in public office.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by Ozzie335i

The max pump octane level in the fuel we end up with is directly proportional to the people we elect in public office.

I still have 101 octane race gas available if all else fails!

[M.a.r.k.u.s]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Thanks for explaining that.

I have stage 2 turbo w/ inlet and DV+, FMIC and CP, PTF protune. OEM LPFP, DP and exhaust. No JB4.

PTF protune on 91 octane was great, but dyno a bit disappointing at 340 WHP (see this thread). Had all sorts of trouble tuning for ethanol blends. Installed stage 2 LPFP but could not get rid of pesky warning lights, even after installing new oversized battery and consulting with Steve at Fuel-It, so uninstalled it. It was misfire city on E40 and E50 on OEM LPFP, hard limps and everything. Just finished E30 tune a few days ago and so far so good. Car feels really smooth. Even had some minor hiccups on E33, and Dzenno and I both concluded that E30 is the limit on my car. I'm at 20 PSI on E30, 19 PSI on 91 octane. Gonna drive it like this for a while and then repeat the dyno to see what kind of numbers I get. No way I get anything close to 500 though.

I would assume the oem dp is the main reason you're not making more power. Seems like that would be a huge restriction in getting all that extra air out. Even on a stock turbo, it made a huge difference. I can't even imagine what the difference would be with a ps2

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by M.a.r.k.u.s

I would assume the oem dp is the main reason you're not making more power. Seems like that would be a huge restriction in getting all that extra air out. Even on a stock turbo, it made a huge difference. I can't even imagine what the difference would be with a ps2

Yep, I'm looking into that too. Probably after next smog check in May.

[trixdout]

Originally Posted by houtan

Just going to clarify your post.

you can definitely run stand alone cobb flash with a pure stage 2 on pump fuel (91 or 93). There are two things to consider though. 1. you may be limited in the amount of boost you can run due to the lower octane. Switching to E50 as far as I've seen is not an option, so if you hit an octane limit, thats as far as you can go. 2. you will be limited to 21.5ish psi due to the limitation of the N55 tmap sensor.

For number 1, On my stock turbo, my 91 octane flash tune peaks at 20 psi, where the turbo is very inefficient, and my logs are still clean. I am working on getting a log from a guy running flash only 20psi pure stage 2 on pump gas and he says the logs are clean. either way, it seems like running close to 20 psi may possible.

For number 2, there are very few E series n55s running higher than 20ish psi successfully. Even with the JB4, we are seeing misfire issues at 20 psi. It's unfortunate because there is more boost left in the turbo.

It would be nice to see a flash only pure stage 2 log on pump gas, so hopefully someone can get their hands on one.

100% agree there is a ton of good information on n54tech.

I'm going based off the idea that everyone and their mother can get 91/93 not e85. E85 is the issue here with any aftermarket turbo setup for us.

You are probably right when it comes to running flex fuel, the jb4 is better than cobb. I'll probably be running port injection rather than e85 since i can't get it readily (granted its only 20 minutes away).

Personally, I rather see the timing in all 6 cylinders rather than just one.