[catcher22]

I'm glad people are finally putting this to rest as the dumbest idea on the campaign trail yet.

It is not enforcable
It makes no sense
It makes America less safe
It divides an entire class of citizens

How can the United States have a President who is banned from most Muslim countries? I'm sure this would be the reaction if Trump did this.

Why would we ban King Abdullah of Jordan from entering the US?

Why would we ban the leaders of the 50-majority Muslim countries from entering the US?

Since they're Muslims, but are actively fighting for and with the United States, would they get waivers? Would we instead be subjective of whom we let in, instead of objectively saying "All Muslims are Banned"?

What about Muslims, like myself, who identify as Muslim but do not practice? Would we let them in? How about converts from Islam to another religion? Would we ask all 1.6 Billion people, or just speculate?

So if we ban all Muslims until we 'figure it out', exactly what criteria has to be met? Is this indefinite? What does 'figure it out' even mean?

There are so many flaws with Donald Trump himself, and his policies, he Makes America Dumber.

[fazman]

Originally Posted by Sara504

For right now, yes. It's not permanent but it's an idea until we can get a grip on this whole ordeal.

Makes sense to me, all muslims should leave the USA and go live in Muslim countries (voluntarily or by some selective method or just all booted out at the same time). Because we all know no terrorism happens in the "muslim countries"

Mexicans will also be leaving by some plan back to their "homeland".

whats next? Jewish people have to leave the USA and they cut off support to/from Israel?

All african americans need to leave to go back to their ancestry locations?

All Christians need to leave and go back to England?

eventually the only people left here are going to be the 0.0001% native american peeps with their Casinos maybe there will be a couple eskimo's chilling at Red Lobster too?

its called a "Slippery Slope" logic.... it makes for a fun discussion and great dog and pony show for an election year. But no one that is educated really believes any thing that trump spews. Trump may be a "business man" but how leveraged is he? If a few mis steps happen, he will be bankrupt AGAIN (not his first time mind you).

You have to admit, every group gets their "time" paying their racism dues. Before 1999, islam was some cutsy exotic religion that no one knew anything about in the USA and people mostly thought they were like Aladdin or something silly like that. 15 years later... they are what the African Americans, Chinese, Japanese, Women, etc had already gone thru. Seriously, America is the only place where a woman hasn't become president yet... 2008 it was black guy or woman.... hummm i dunno, okay fine black guy cuz you really can't trust a woman yet

All i can say from growing up here in the USA, every individual resident here has to feel someone else is a bad guy so they themselves can believe they are a good guy. That will never change... just changing of the flavor of the month on who to blame for something. We are just stuck with being a mob mentality

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by fazman

Makes sense to me, all muslims should leave the USA and go live in Muslim countries (voluntarily or by some selective method or just all booted out at the same time). Because we all know no terrorism happens in the "muslim countries"

Mexicans will also be leaving by some plan back to their "homeland".

whats next? Jewish people have to leave the USA and they cut off support to/from Israel?

All african americans need to leave to go back to their ancestry locations?

All Christians need to leave and go back to England?

eventually the only people left here are going to be the 0.0001% native american peeps with their Casinos maybe there will be a couple eskimo's chilling at Red Lobster too?

its called a "Slippery Slope" logic.... it makes for a fun discussion and great dog and pony show for an election year. But no one that is educated really believes any thing that trump spews. Trump may be a "business man" but how leveraged is he? If a few mis steps happen, he will be bankrupt AGAIN (not his first time mind you).

You have to admit, every group gets their "time" paying their racism dues. Before 1999, islam was some cutsy exotic religion that no one knew anything about in the USA and people mostly thought they were like Aladdin or something silly like that. 15 years later... they are what the African Americans, Chinese, Japanese, Women, etc had already gone thru. Seriously, America is the only place where a woman hasn't become president yet... 2008 it was black guy or woman.... hummm i dunno, okay fine black guy cuz you really can't trust a woman yet

All i can say from growing up here in the USA, every individual resident here has to feel someone else is a bad guy so they themselves can believe they are a good guy. That will never change... just changing of the flavor of the month on who to blame for something. We are just stuck with being a mob mentality

I'm hoping you posted this sarcastically?

No one (especially Trump) ever said Muslims citizens in the US (or any other citizens) should leave. And it's not a "slippery slope" of logic to say that Visas should not be granted to people coming from foreign countries who often want to do harm to the US. President Carter did the exact same thing in 1978, and used the powers granted by Congress in 1952 to do it. So it's not like there isn't precedent for an action like this.

The same thing with any illegals being deported; this has been done in the past (like the early 1950's, when President Eisenhower deported nearly 2M illegals).

"Before 1999, Islam was a cutesy religion"?? How old are you? Did you miss the attacks on the US by radical Islamists all through the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's? And Islam is a religion, not a race. "People mostly thought they were like Aladdin" - would those people be you?

"America is the only place where a woman hasn't been President yet" - Huh? I don't remember a woman President in Egypt, or Syria, or Russia, or about 9/10ths of the world.

Your last paragraph about a "mob mentality" says a lot about you, not America. Have you ever left your state, or the country?

[RedlinePSI]

I wish I saw this thread earlier. I can't read through 10 pages before commenting so i'll just get to my opinion. Banning all Muslim's from entering the country, and in effect waging war on ALL Muslims is exactly the kind of reaction ISIS wants. This war is not Muslim vs the world; It's ISIS vs the world, and this is a modern war that LITERALLY needs to be fought with as much brain as brawn. We need to sure up our immigration process to seal up any leaks. Devote more budget to background checks etc. This blunt reaction to ban all Muslims is not the way to do it. That will do as much harm as good.

Even as I say all of this, I am in a way giving the benefit of the doubt. I have not read the Quran so I really don't know what it teaches. Every other person will have a different point of view on it, usually based on their political stance and what chosen media source has brainwashed them. The bottom line is I do not feel like I can trust anybody to give me a fair understanding of the text, and I just don't have the time/desire to read it for myself right now. My job is not politics and there is not enough time in the day. What I do understand is that the Bible is not 100% peaceful either, and hardcore Christians conveniently forget that fact when they are screaming in the streets.

[fazman]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

I'm hoping you posted this sarcastically?

No one (especially Trump) ever said Muslims citizens in the US (or any other citizens) should leave. And it's not a "slippery slope" of logic to say that Visas should not be granted to people coming from foreign countries who often want to do harm to the US. President Carter did the exact same thing in 1978, and used the powers granted by Congress in 1952 to do it. So it's not like there isn't precedent for an action like this.

The same thing with any illegals being deported; this has been done in the past (like the early 1950's, when President Eisenhower deported nearly 2M illegals).

"Before 1999, Islam was a cutesy religion"?? How old are you? Did you miss the attacks on the US by radical Islamists all through the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's? And Islam is a religion, not a race. "People mostly thought they were like Aladdin" - would those people be you?

"America is the only place where a woman hasn't been President yet" - Huh? I don't remember a woman President in Egypt, or Syria, or Russia, or about 9/10ths of the world.

Your last paragraph about a "mob mentality" says a lot about you, not America. Have you ever left your state, or the country?

Yup, I've travelled to many parts of Asia and Europe in my lifetime. Your Mob mentality comment can be addressed in many a South Park episode if you feel it's just unique to me?

I've walked this rock since the '70's. I am muslim, so yes I know what I am talking about more than you do about this religion and how it interacts with me.

you seemed to have glanced over the comment/part where all other backgrounds have to pay their dues in this country. You also seemed to have little understanding of what is a "Slippery Slope": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Education levels of the population really make it easy for Mass Media to shape/impact perception... that was the meaning which you seemed to have missed. Not trying to be rude to you... just point you towards my intent. Please re-read my comments in my original post with this new understanding: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=222

Let me know if you have more questions that need to be clarified for you... I'm open to discussing if you are able to be mature about it.

[fazman]

Originally Posted by RedlinePSI

I wish I saw this thread earlier. I can't read through 10 pages before commenting so i'll just get to my opinion. Banning all Muslim's from entering the country, and in effect waging war on ALL Muslims is exactly the kind of reaction ISIS wants. This war is not Muslim vs the world; It's ISIS vs the world, and this is a modern war that LITERALLY needs to be fought with as much brain as brawn. We need to sure up our immigration process to seal up any leaks. Devote more budget to background checks etc. This blunt reaction to ban all Muslims is not the way to do it. That will do as much harm as good.

Even as I say all of this, I am in a way giving the benefit of the doubt. I have not read the Quran so I really don't know what it teaches. Every other person will have a different point of view on it, usually based on their political stance and what chosen media source has brainwashed them. The bottom line is I do not feel like I can trust anybody to give me a fair understanding of the text, and I just don't have the time/desire to read it for myself right now. My job is not politics and there is not enough time in the day. What I do understand is that the Bible is not 100% peaceful either, and hardcore Christians conveniently forget that fact when they are screaming in the streets.

So just a quick answer to this question... keep in mind I have a Computer Science back ground... not theology. But for some reason they make us take a bunch of non-CS classes to get a degree and for shits and giggles I have taken a world religions course in college (maybe some that were required in high school or Jr high as well). Here is the 5 second version

* First you have Polytheism
* Then came the major monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and then Islam)... let's not get into the various divisions of each also let's put aside (while still important) beliefs like Bahai/Flying Spaghetti Monster and what not.
* Judaism has a belief in one God (bunch of other stuff that I know little about)
* Christianity has a belief in one God (bunch of stuff that I know little about) but humm... its the same God and similar to Judaism (I'm talking Old testament before Greek influences where Pork became acceptable and Women WERE asked to cover their heads in modesty).
* Islam has a belief in one God (bunch of stuff that I know a little about) - OMG they believe in the same God as Jews and Christians, OMG they believe that the religious books of Jews and Christians are ALSO the words of GOD
* Modern day, Politics/Money/Media want the masses to believe that "We" are the good guys and "They" are the bad guys. I use these terms vaguely because it's true to everyone on this planet:
- When you are in the USA "We" refers people in the USA and "They" are everyone else
- When you are in the UK "We" refers people in the UK and "They" are everyone else
- When you are in the Singapore "We" refers people in Singapore and "They" are everyone else
- When you are in France "We" refers people in France and "They" are everyone else
- When you are in the Saudia Arabia Kingdom "We" refers people in the Saudia Arabia Kingdom and "They" are everyone else
- When you are in Vietnam "We" refers people in Vietnam and "They" are everyone else
- so on and so forth.... get it?

Libyans/Iranians/ISIS/terrorist/tomorrow's flavor that Media wants to make popular... are all terms to point a finger without actually thinking that nut jobs are actually of all backgrounds and from all parts of the world (not limited to just these places) it's only that the Media wants to label things differently. You have many people that claim things, but in reality all they wanted to do is do bad... because they were bad people and the people in the Media need to assign a correlation to it for viewers to watch (this sells commercials/papers/ad space so they can profit from it).

I've pretty much turned off all news and public TV since about 2000. I focused mostly watching stuff online, most movies I can stream via netflix and the like... I've realized that most of the hate you learn about comes from public access and news.

When I was in the UK visiting family, their big thing was news papers about stabbings. Anytime I would go to the tubes/underground/subway... they always have a guy selling newspapers with the front story about a new stabbing, EVERYDAY!!! my perception of London was... damn.... they have nothing better to do then go around stabbing each other.

I have a lot of Taiwanese parachute kid friends from college days, their big thing was about Taiwan politics and didn't really care anything about it or knew anything about it... but what I realized from hearing them argue about X party and differing view points, they would always quote what they "heard" on the news. Since when has the Media ever really reported things of fact... how many times do you hear about the corrections they have to make? Does it ever become a news item that the news was wrong?

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by fazman

Yup, I've travelled to many parts of Asia and Europe in my lifetime. Your Mob mentality comment can be addressed in many a South Park episode if you feel it's just unique to me?

I've walked this rock since the '70's. I am muslim, so yes I know what I am talking about more than you do about this religion and how it interacts with me.

you seemed to have glanced over the comment/part where all other backgrounds have to pay their dues in this country. You also seemed to have little understanding of what is a "Slippery Slope": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Education levels of the population really make it easy for Mass Media to shape/impact perception... that was the meaning which you seemed to have missed. Not trying to be rude to you... just point you towards my intent. Please re-read my comments in my original post with this new understanding: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=222

Let me know if you have more questions that need to be clarified for you... I'm open to discussing if you are able to be mature about it.

Sorry - I still disagree about the slippery slope - it's logical to conclude:

our current terrorist activities are coming from Muslim countries,

We don't have adequate background checks and screening procedures,

Terrorists want to wage war on our soil,

And until we get proper, effective procedures in place, we should put a moratorium on this kind of immigration.

It appears you are comparing being a Muslim with the history of oppression of other races and religions in the US, from 70+ years ago? Again, I completely disagree. And, it seems that some Muslims in the US are anxious to leverage a victim mentality for their own benefit (see:CAIR, for starters). Again, Islam is a religion, not a race.

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by fazman

So just a quick answer to this question... keep in mind I have a Computer Science back ground... not theology. But for some reason they make us take a bunch of non-CS classes to get a degree and for shits and giggles I have taken a world religions course in college (maybe some that were required in high school or Jr high as well). Here is the 5 second version

* First you have Polytheism
* Then came the major monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and then Islam)... let's not get into the various divisions of each also let's put aside (while still important) beliefs like Bahai/Flying Spaghetti Monster and what not.
* Judaism has a belief in one God (bunch of other stuff that I know little about)
* Christianity has a belief in one God (bunch of stuff that I know little about) but humm... its the same God and similar to Judaism (I'm talking Old testament before Greek influences where Pork became acceptable and Women WERE asked to cover their heads in modesty).
* Islam has a belief in one God (bunch of stuff that I know a little about) - OMG they believe in the same God as Jews and Christians, OMG they believe that the religious books of Jews and Christians are ALSO the words of GOD
* Modern day, Politics/Money/Media want the masses to believe that "We" are the good guys and "They" are the bad guys. I use these terms vaguely because it's true to everyone on this planet:
- When you are in the USA "We" refers people in the USA and "They" are everyone else
- When you are in the UK "We" refers people in the UK and "They" are everyone else
- When you are in the Singapore "We" refers people in Singapore and "They" are everyone else
- When you are in France "We" refers people in France and "They" are everyone else
- When you are in the Saudia Arabia Kingdom "We" refers people in the Saudia Arabia Kingdom and "They" are everyone else
- When you are in Vietnam "We" refers people in Vietnam and "They" are everyone else
- so on and so forth.... get it?

Libyans/Iranians/ISIS/terrorist/tomorrow's flavor that Media wants to make popular... are all terms to point a finger without actually thinking that nut jobs are actually of all backgrounds and from all parts of the world (not limited to just these places) it's only that the Media wants to label things differently. You have many people that claim things, but in reality all they wanted to do is do bad... because they were bad people and the people in the Media need to assign a correlation to it for viewers to watch (this sells commercials/papers/ad space so they can profit from it).

I've pretty much turned off all news and public TV since about 2000. I focused mostly watching stuff online, most movies I can stream via netflix and the like... I've realized that most of the hate you learn about comes from public access and news.

When I was in the UK visiting family, their big thing was news papers about stabbings. Anytime I would go to the tubes/underground/subway... they always have a guy selling newspapers with the front story about a new stabbing, EVERYDAY!!! my perception of London was... damn.... they have nothing better to do then go around stabbing each other.

I have a lot of Taiwanese parachute kid friends from college days, their big thing was about Taiwan politics and didn't really care anything about it or knew anything about it... but what I realized from hearing them argue about X party and differing view points, they would always quote what they "heard" on the news. Since when has the Media ever really reported things of fact... how many times do you hear about the corrections they have to make? Does it ever become a news item that the news was wrong?

So in summary:

-you have a fragmented and partial understanding of the topic, and don't want to take the time to learn more,

-you haven't watched the news since 2000,

-you have no better information source.

Thanks for the input.

[fazman]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

So in summary:

-you have a fragmented and partial understanding of the topic, and don't want to take the time to learn more,

-you haven't watched the news since 2000,

-you have no better information source.

Thanks for the input.

I don't watch TV news, i still am aware of what is going on in the world from online sources but I also realize that the Media sources that are available from all over the planet are all biased and they are all geared towards making money for the media.

Here is the template of all news events (Not natural disasters, that uses a different template):
1) something happened, some place (Affected a small group of people some place other than where I am at).
2) Media tries to justify it with some reason/correlation and give their "views" saying they are not biased.
3) Event impacted someone else, usually caused by someone stupid.
4) Media tries to make an event/story out of something so they can make $$$

This is no different than watching a Live car chase on TV. It's like seriously, you really want to waste all this time watching all this drama? If really wanted to waste time with something stupid I could go rubber necking traffic accidents on the freeways and help contribute to 1000's on the road being hours late just so I can get a glimpse of a wrecked car for 2 seconds.

Am I the only one that gets this?

BTW - is shooting up your work place Terrorism only if you are muslim? How come these are not terrorist activities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_postal

[530iAndroid]

There is a lot of talk about racism being thrown around in general these days. Everyone is good at pointing fingers because the person next to them is doing it as well, making it feel righteous and acceptable but how much do the underlying assumptions about race just make the discussion pointless and asinine?

Here is something to think about:

What is 'race' exactly? Not everyone defines it the same way. In this country we like to think that it is based on biology, but how accurate is this? Ultimately we are all human with a mix of genes and there really isn't any scientific way to separate people into categories like that, so 'race' is really a social invention, the basis for which can be found in all sorts of ideologies.

Nazi propaganda taught people that the Arian race was superior because it had a distinctly different biological makeup to Neanderthals who watered down the gene pool. We now laugh at this but at the time it was believed to be scientific fact. So one source of this categorization we call 'race' is pseudo-science.

At the same time, Hitler was a huge fan of Islam because he viewed it as strong and based on a warrior mentality, even having formed a muslim SS division and taking a huge role in supporting a guy named Al Husseini as he was spreading antisemitism in the Arab world. Purely applying the Nazi pseudoscience, one would have concluded that Arabs were not Arian, thus supposedly making them inferior. Well, being a of a warrior religion in his mind apparently made up for it somehow. Hitler certainly contributed to the blurring of the lines between 'race' and religion. Many of the beliefs held in the Arab world to this day lead back to Nazi Germany, hence we sometimes hear ridiculous references to Mein Kampf and other books. How does a militant Muslim view himself/herself? Does it not appear that race and religion are often used interchangeably?

What about Judaism and especially Zionism, which is something which many angered Muslims have equated to being like a Jewish Nazism. I am not an expert on the subject but my understanding is that the belief is based on the idea that Jews are God's chosen people, thereby inherently assuming that everyone else is inferior. Until fairly recently in history, I don't think you could convert to become a Jew. A lot of the belief is based on blood lines which follow the mother's side. So here we again have biological theories popping up in what is otherwise considered a religious belief that should not have anything to do with biology. If your Mother's Mother was Jewish, and you are therefore considered to be 100% Jewish, even if you are an atheist or believe in another religion, racial purity has entered the picture. Again, where does one draw the line between race and religion?

In the US, we like to believe that skin color and other prominent features dictate our race, but this is highly subjective and doesn't have much basis in reality either. How does one differentiate between Hispanic and Caucasian? It seems language has more to do with it than your looks and ultimately much of it comes down to personal preference. Plenty of Latin/Central Americans could easily be mistaken for completely Asian or Native American based purely on physical appearance, but how likely are they to self-identify as that when going to the DMV to check that box? Is it less desirable to self-identify as those when compared to calling oneself Caucasian? It seems many people would prefer it. Is that racist? Is it white supremacy being perpetuated by non-whites? Who knows!

'Race' is whatever you want it to be or even whatever your leaders want you to believe it is.

To assume that everyone thinks the way we do limits our understanding of what us really going on.

What should one take away from this? When someone complains that your rational disapproval of their dangerous hate filled beliefs is racist, should you let them put you on the defensive by making you explain to everyone how you have nothing against their race but their beliefs? Only for them to come back and tell you that your beliefs are fueled by racist thinking?

Their 'race' IS a belief, such as religion. You can't separate the two in most parts of the world. Attempting to do so at the immigration counter would be a philosophical exercise which I doubt Border security is going to have much luck with.

[direwolfM3]

Looks like I've stumbled into the dark, bigoted corner of bimmerpost.

Happy New Year, all!

[fazman]

Originally Posted by 530iAndroid

There is a lot of talk about racism being thrown around in general these days. Everyone is good at pointing fingers because the person next to them is doing it as well, making it feel righteous and acceptable but how much do the underlying assumptions about race just make the discussion pointless and asinine?

Here is something to think about:

What is 'race' exactly? Not everyone defines it the same way. In this country we like to think that it is based on biology, but how accurate is this? Ultimately we are all human with a mix of genes and there really isn't any scientific way to separate people into categories like that, so 'race' is really a social invention, the basis for which can be found in all sorts of ideologies.

Nazi propaganda taught people that the Arian race was superior because it had a distinctly different biological makeup to Neanderthals who watered down the gene pool. We now laugh at this but at the time it was believed to be scientific fact. So one source of this categorization we call 'race' is pseudo-science.

At the same time, Hitler was a huge fan of Islam because he viewed it as strong and based on a warrior mentality, even having formed a muslim SS division and taking a huge role in supporting a guy named Al Husseini as he was spreading antisemitism in the Arab world. Purely applying the Nazi pseudoscience, one would have concluded that Arabs were not Arian, thus supposedly making them inferior. Well, being a of a warrior religion in his mind apparently made up for it somehow. Hitler certainly contributed to the blurring of the lines between 'race' and religion. Many of the beliefs held in the Arab world to this day lead back to Nazi Germany, hence we sometimes hear ridiculous references to Mein Kampf and other books. How does a militant Muslim view himself/herself? Does it not appear that race and religion are often used interchangeably?

What about Judaism and especially Zionism, which is something which many angered Muslims have equated to being like a Jewish Nazism. I am not an expert on the subject but my understanding is that the belief is based on the idea that Jews are God's chosen people, thereby inherently assuming that everyone else is inferior. Until fairly recently in history, I don't think you could convert to become a Jew. A lot of the belief is based on blood lines which follow the mother's side. So here we again have biological theories popping up in what is otherwise considered a religious belief that should not have anything to do with biology. If your Mother's Mother was Jewish, and you are therefore considered to be 100% Jewish, even if you are an atheist or believe in another religion, racial purity has entered the picture. Again, where does one draw the line between race and religion?

In the US, we like to believe that skin color and other prominent features dictate our race, but this is highly subjective and doesn't have much basis in reality either. How does one differentiate between Hispanic and Caucasian? It seems language has more to do with it than your looks and ultimately much of it comes down to personal preference. Plenty of Latin/Central Americans could easily be mistaken for completely Asian or Native American based purely on physical appearance, but how likely are they to self-identify as that when going to the DMV to check that box? Is it less desirable to self-identify as those when compared to calling oneself Caucasian? It seems many people would prefer it. Is that racist? Is it white supremacy being perpetuated by non-whites? Who knows!

'Race' is whatever you want it to be or even whatever your leaders want you to believe it is.

To assume that everyone thinks the way we do limits our understanding of what us really going on.

What should one take away from this? When someone complains that your rational disapproval of their dangerous hate filled beliefs is racist, should you let them put you on the defensive by making you explain to everyone how you have nothing against their race but their beliefs? Only for them to come back and tell you that your beliefs are fueled by racist thinking?

Their 'race' IS a belief, such as religion. You can't separate the two in most parts of the world. Attempting to do so at the immigration counter would be a philosophical exercise which I doubt Border security is going to have much luck with.

I'm muslim and i have a lot of friends of various backgrounds. Some of the people i know who are really cool and respected/intelligent in my opinion are jewish (they are also very knowledgeable in their religion). I've been fortunate to be able to ask a lot of questions that they don't take personally since its just for me to learn about another culture. Some of what you said above doesn't matche up with what i have heard, learned, or researched in all the years that i have walked this planet. Not saying your wrong... just you have a highly unique perspective that i have never heard of between hitler/arabs/muslims/jews.

your right that as a race, we are all part of the human race. All religions teach peace and to spread across all walks of life. But i think you are confusing race with culture. People are all from different regions of the world all with their own ways of adapting to living on this planet that makes sense to them based on regional differences. They have customs that are held dear to them because of some historical importance.

[530iAndroid]

@fazman

I am not surprised that you may not have heard of some of the info about the Hitler connection to Islam as it seems to barely ever get touched on. Some have claimed that Hitler got the idea to not just deport but actually exterminate the Jews from the Grand Mufti but people angrily dismissed the theory claiming that it was somehow intended to absolve Hitler (which I don't see how that makes him less guilty) but perhaps that is why nobody talks about it a whole lot.

Aside from this being a different viewpoint though, do you find anything inconsistent with what your friends told you? I am not all knowing of course so it might be that your friends know something I don't. Spreading the knowledge is my aim and I am always happy to learn.

Check out these photos if you have never seen SS Soldiers who were Muslim and wearing a Fez before. I could not believe my eyes the first time I saw this stuff. I grew up in Germany and I was also under the impression that only the most 'pure' blond and blue eyed Germanic people could be enlisted. History is often forgotten or skewed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th..._SS_Handschar_(1st_Croatian)

[mylydiamy]

Originally Posted by Lups

Oh come on, put the money in drivers education and less people will be killed yearly.

Wow!!! Smartest post of the year!!! Make that in a decade!!!

[TrAcK TRaP]

Originally Posted by fazman

Makes sense to me, all muslims should leave the USA and go live in Muslim countries (voluntarily or by some selective method or just all booted out at the same time). Because we all know no terrorism happens in the "muslim countries"

Mexicans will also be leaving by some plan back to their "homeland".

whats next? Jewish people have to leave the USA and they cut off support to/from Israel?

All african americans need to leave to go back to their ancestry locations?

All Christians need to leave and go back to England?

eventually the only people left here are going to be the 0.0001% native american peeps with their Casinos maybe there will be a couple eskimo's chilling at Red Lobster too?

its called a "Slippery Slope" logic.... it makes for a fun discussion and great dog and pony show for an election year. But no one that is educated really believes any thing that trump spews. Trump may be a "business man" but how leveraged is he? If a few mis steps happen, he will be bankrupt AGAIN (not his first time mind you).

You have to admit, every group gets their "time" paying their racism dues. Before 1999, islam was some cutsy exotic religion that no one knew anything about in the USA and people mostly thought they were like Aladdin or something silly like that. 15 years later... they are what the African Americans, Chinese, Japanese, Women, etc had already gone thru. Seriously, America is the only place where a woman hasn't become president yet... 2008 it was black guy or woman.... hummm i dunno, okay fine black guy cuz you really can't trust a woman yet

All i can say from growing up here in the USA, every individual resident here has to feel someone else is a bad guy so they themselves can believe they are a good guy. That will never change... just changing of the flavor of the month on who to blame for something. We are just stuck with being a mob mentality

I love all of you guys here but please ''DO NOT'' make a comment if you don't know enough for other Countries. I am from Turkey and we've been fighting against terrorism since 1977 and spending hell of a money. They want freedom, they say they wanna speak their own language, they claim that our government doesn't help them enough, they kill our soldiers without mercy AND YESSS they live in our country its very complicated. Is anyone know who created ISIS? I am tired and sick of hearing terrors in my country already I am happy to be here I am a citizen since 2007 I can fight for this Country if I have to while most of people hiding safely. "IF I DO SOMETHING WRONG, BLAME ME. NOT MY RELIGION. I AM A MUSLIM, NOT A TERRORIST..

[fazman]

Originally Posted by N54CherryHill

I love all of you guys here but please ''DO NOT'' make a comment if you don't know enough for other Countries. I am from Turkey and we've been fighting against terrorism since 1977 and spending hell of a money. They want freedom, they say they wanna speak their own language, they claim that our government doesn't help them enough, they kill our soldiers without mercy AND YESSS they live in our country its very complicated. Is anyone know who created ISIS? I am tired and sick of hearing terrors in my country already I am happy to be here I am a citizen since 2007 I can fight for this Country if I have to while most of people hiding safely. "IF I DO SOMETHING WRONG, BLAME ME. NOT MY RELIGION. I AM A MUSLIM, NOT A TERRORIST..

I'm a USA citizen as well, i have security patents granted by the USPTO and various other personal accomplishments that are valued by any of the top tech shops you can think of, but frankly speaking... I'm getting tired of the BS by media singling out Terrorism as only a muslim thing (Many examples of non-muslim acts of terrorism are not brought up in media nor are "marketed" as terrorism by main stream media). I'm actually okay with the US gov't giving muslims in this country a free pass to give up their citizenship (no additional tax penalties) and leave to go live some place else (and never come back to the USA).

Taxes are zero in places like Saudi Arabia and lots of people from the western world love working as ex-pats in places like these. They like to live LARGE out there.

[fazman]

Originally Posted by 530iAndroid

@fazman

I am not surprised that you may not have heard of some of the info about the Hitler connection to Islam as it seems to barely ever get touched on. Some have claimed that Hitler got the idea to not just deport but actually exterminate the Jews from the Grand Mufti but people angrily dismissed the theory claiming that it was somehow intended to absolve Hitler (which I don't see how that makes him less guilty) but perhaps that is why nobody talks about it a whole lot.

Aside from this being a different viewpoint though, do you find anything inconsistent with what your friends told you? I am not all knowing of course so it might be that your friends know something I don't. Spreading the knowledge is my aim and I am always happy to learn.

Check out these photos if you have never seen SS Soldiers who were Muslim and wearing a Fez before. I could not believe my eyes the first time I saw this stuff. I grew up in Germany and I was also under the impression that only the most 'pure' blond and blue eyed Germanic people could be enlisted. History is often forgotten or skewed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th..._SS_Handschar_(1st_Croatian)

Maybe i'm missing something in what you are saying and that is my bad. But just wanted to point out one thing, you do realize that a lot of persians/irani's are jewish too? Same as in Arab's, peeps being Christain or Jewish as well. Religion is not the same as ethnicity/race.

[TrAcK TRaP]

Originally Posted by fazman

I'm a USA citizen as well, i have security patents granted by the USPTO and various other personal accomplishments that are valued by any of the top tech shops you can think of, but frankly speaking... I'm getting tired of the BS by media singling out Terrorism as only a muslim thing (Many examples of non-muslim acts of terrorism are not brought up in media nor are "marketed" as terrorism by main stream media). I'm actually okay with the US gov't giving muslims in this country a free pass to give up their citizenship (no additional tax penalties) and leave to go live some place else (and never come back to the USA).

Taxes are zero in places like Saudi Arabia and lots of people from the western world love working as ex-pats in places like these. They like to live LARGE out there.

Because we all know no terrorism happens in the "muslim countries".. I actually wrote you back because you said that. And I told you that terrorism happens in the muslim countries also if you read enough you would know thats all..

[fazman]

Originally Posted by N54CherryHill

Because we all know no terrorism happens in the "muslim countries".. I actually wrote you back because you said that. And I told you that terrorism happens in the muslim countries also if you read enough you would know thats all..

i think you misunderstood my Sarcasim, i was trying to point out that Terrorism happens everywhere actually PM me and i'll go over it all with you so it makes more sense (probably a lot of other points might have been misinterpreted).

[TrAcK TRaP]

Originally Posted by fazman

i think you misunderstood my Sarcasim, i was trying to point out that Terrorism happens everywhere actually PM me and i'll go over it all with you so it makes more sense (probably a lot of other points might have been misinterpreted).

I am sorry bro

[fazman]

Originally Posted by N54CherryHill

I am sorry bro

no worries brother, i should have used the /Sarcasim tag

its all good man...

[530iAndroid]

Originally Posted by fazman

Maybe i'm missing something in what you are saying and that is my bad. But just wanted to point out one thing, you do realize that a lot of persians/irani's are jewish too? Same as in Arab's, peeps being Christain or Jewish as well. Religion is not the same as ethnicity/race.

Yes, in fact I had a girlfriend who was of Persian descent but Jewish and my best friend is Armenian and Christian. But many people don't have such first hand experience or exposure. Having moved to SoCal which has a huge Persian community, I often see people just assume Persians are Arabs because most of them are Muslim and because their physical features aren't vastly different to someone not from the region. They are both from the middle east of course, but try calling a Persian an Arab and see how frustrating it is for them. Which kind of brings me back to my point though. When it comes to telling people apart, lines are often very blurry, and that is especially the case because the social construct of 'race' is incredibly imprecise and subjective, not to mention confusing. Whether right or wrong, many people use race and religion, and as you pointed out, race and culture, interchangeably. Race derives from ethnicity and ethnicity derives from culture, language and religion. One can not categorically draw a line between any of them.

So in my opinion the underlying problem which leads to a lot of misunderstanding is that we pay way too much attention to the wording of things and not the actual content and context of what people are saying. Nowadays any time a group of people wants to avoid being criticized for something it merely needs to pull the race card. Sadly, a lot of Muslims are doing this, therefore not contributing to the dialogue but instead further obscuring things for everyone. By calling other people racist, one does nothing more than promote racism.

Just a side note: An anglo/white westerner may not be able to tell an Arab and a Persian person apart any more than the average South East Asian individual would probably be able to see any difference between a Czech and a Slav, or a Serbian and Croatian, given the the lack of exposure to the cultural or ethnical differences. Sadly, one could get away with calling a white person a racist for making such a mistake whereas the Asian's intentions are likely to not even be questioned in the first place.

In Germany there is a growing problem with Muslim, predominately Turkish, school children acting physically violent towards the the local native German speakers for being non-muslims. These attacks are often accompanied with a common repeated verbal assault where kids are called 'Christ', intended as a derogatory form of Christian. Whether or not the child is really christian or not plays little role so long as they 'look' the part. In the eyes of these Muslim children, and seemingly in those of their parents who are teaching hatred, Christianity is not merely a religion but an ethnicity which they dislike. This again is the blurring of 'race' and religion. Few are willing to publicly talk about this abuse out of fear of being labeled not even xenophobic but 'racist'. The word has become like 'heretic' of the modern world. Say something people don't like or even just makes them feel threatened because it is something they don't understand and they can silence you, strip you of all your credibility and rally people against you in mob mentality fashion.

The truth is that radical Muslims actually want the peaceful Muslims to feel alienated and hated so that they can get them onto their side. People should be careful who they rally behind out of fear of alienation.