[gonzo]

^
Watching what seems to be utter incompetence, it begs to question if it is all intentional.
Evilness is alive and kicking.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

All this shit gained traction pre covid and pre inflation where money was cheap utilities were cheap etc and there was money to borrow at a cheap rate to spunk on this stuff. The dynamics are changing. When people are dying due to lack of food and lack of ability to heat their home and cannot purchase/drive a car to get them to work so that food can be put on the table for some co2 target this vanity project will come crashing down like a pack of cards.

The cost of utilities is going up because of the push to BEV. That is the issue.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gonzo

^
Watching what seems to be utter incompetence, it begs to question if it is all intentional.
Evilness is alive and kicking.

It is definitely intentional.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The cost of utilities is going up because of the push to BEV. That is the issue.

And everyone is subsidizing this EV push through paying for higher electricity rates regardless of if one owns an EV and regardless of income. If one wants to get down to the "brass tacks", this is a reverse tax penalty on the low income. Segment of the population that has to pay for electricity where any increase is a larger percentage of their income and are also the ones that can't afford to buy an EV.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

And everyone is subsidizing this EV push through paying for higher electricity rates regardless of if one owns an EV and regardless of income. If one wants to get down to the "brass tacks", this is a reverse tax penalty on the low income segment of the population that has to pay for electricity where any increase is a larger percentage of their income and are also the ones that can't afford to buy an EV.

Precisely, it's electricity and petrol-fuels, which increase the price of all goods and services. It is absolutely disgusting, but [political theme blocked...].

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

It is definitely intentional.

Right on cue after our posts:

"Incompetence, in the limit, is indistinguishable from sabotage"
Elon Musk

[shawnhayes]

You guys still going?

I mean, all of this is potentially valid, but the market will move the way it does. The new tesla model 3 prices and the regain of the tax break on it makes things look very very different.

But we'll see, I guess.

Shawn

[Limegrntaln]

I'll have something electric in the next 6-12 months. I never add up cost of fuel, but, I feel like I fueled up a little more than I normally do, and I actually added up fuel cost for the month of April. $744.08. It just doesn't make sense for me to keep putting premium, which is shit 91 octane, in California, and paying $5.29 a gallon, just to commute to work, and take a few trips to Reno.

My solar panels would probably make up for most of what home charging costs me. I don't pay electricity bills. I generally have a bill credit, even in the summer, and I only have 12 panels on 2,700 sqft, 5 bed. I have a 250kw Supercharger 4 miles from my house. 3 years of free supercharging would pay for more than half of the car, in 4-5 years. Not to mention $7,500 federal and $2,000 California tax credit.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Limegrntaln

I'll have something electric in the next 6-12 months. I never add up cost of fuel, but, I feel like I fueled up a little more than I normally do, and I actually added up fuel cost for the month of April. $744.08. It just doesn't make sense for me to keep putting premium, which is shit 91 octane, in California, and paying $5.29 a gallon, just to commute to work, and take a few trips to Reno.

My solar panels would probably make up for most of what home charging costs me. I don't pay electricity bills. I generally have a bill credit, even in the summer, and I only have 12 panels on 2,700 sqft, 5 bed. I have a 250kw Supercharger 4 miles from my house. 3 years of free supercharging would pay for more than half of the car, in 4-5 years. Not to mention $7,500 federal and $2,000 California tax credit.

And THIS is why electric cars have momentum.

It's called "math"

Shawn

[Limegrntaln]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

And THIS is why electric cars have momentum.

It's called "math"

Shawn

Of course. Im spending the car payment in what fuel costs. I cant control fuel prices, but I can control how much it costs me to fully charge a car. Either free Supercharging, or Free at my house.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

And THIS is why electric cars have momentum.

It's called "math"

Shawn

Math for someone with a detached home and solar panels, living in Sunny California. Yep totally applicable to every situations possible. Not like there are people in Condos, old areas of old cities, renters, cold weather places etc

Yep “math”…

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Limegrntaln

I'll have something electric in the next 6-12 months. I never add up cost of fuel, but, I feel like I fueled up a little more than I normally do, and I actually added up fuel cost for the month of April. $744.08. It just doesn't make sense for me to keep putting premium, which is shit 91 octane, in California, and paying $5.29 a gallon, just to commute to work, and take a few trips to Reno.

My solar panels would probably make up for most of what home charging costs me. I don't pay electricity bills. I generally have a bill credit, even in the summer, and I only have 12 panels on 2,700 sqft, 5 bed. I have a 250kw Supercharger 4 miles from my house. 3 years of free supercharging would pay for more than half of the car, in 4-5 years. Not to mention $7,500 federal and $2,000 California tax credit.

How many homes on the planet have solar panels? How many people can afford them even with government grants? How many people can afford an EV as their only car? How many people can afford a new car as their only car. How much will it cost to double capacity and the grid to accommodate wholesale adaptation of EV's, and how much will electircy cost when that happens?

[Limegrntaln]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

How many homes on the planet have solar panels? How many people can afford them even with government grants? How many people can afford an EV as their only car? How many people can afford a new car as their only car. How much will it cost to double capacity and the grid to accommodate wholesale adaptation of EV's, and how much will electircy cost when that happens?

You’re pissing into the wind. It’s been mandatory, in California, for every new house “built” since 2018 to have solar panels installed at time of closing.

I paid $17,741 for my 12 panels, which covers the complete cost of my electric for my house, and pays for most of my gas bill. At the time, there was a 30% tax credit now, it’s down to 26%. Which means when I got the tax credit back, (if you’re receiving a refund, which I always have a refund) that made my panel balance $12,369. Which I just ended up writing a check to pay the balance.

But, say you can’t do that? The government subsidized a 1.9% payment plan for 15 years. At $17,741 my monthly payment was $87 a month. At $12,369, if I hadn’t just paid the panels off, the bill would have been in the $60 range. $60 a month for a fixed rate electric bill for 15 years? Where are you going to beat that?

How many people can afford an EV only car? Well, a model 3 long range is $47,240, today. $7,500 federal tax credit, and $2,000 California. That makes the car $38,000ish. 15,000 miles a year for a standard car at $250 a month for fuel.

A Model 3 long range lease for 15k miles a year, is $573 a month. Minus $250 a month for fuel, and you’re at $323.

As of 2023, according to BankRate the “average” car payment is $716 or $41,445.

And how much is electricity going to cost? If you own a house, with a decent solar panel array, it’s paying for itself. Home electricity and battery charging. In California, with the amount of houses with Solar, it’s not doing anything except helping relieve the grid. Electricity can’t be any cheaper than free.

My power company also gives you up to $400 for a home charger install and $2,000 if your circuit breaker panel can’t handle the power and you need to add a sub panel or upgrade your existing electrical panel.

My house is only a few years old and was built with a dummy panel on the side wall for charger install. That’s also been a given for newer home builds, here.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Limegrntaln

You’re pissing into the wind. It’s been mandatory, in California, for every new house “built” since 2018 to have solar panels installed at time of closing.

I paid $17,741 for my 12 panels, which covers the complete cost of my electric for my house, and pays for most of my gas bill. At the time, there was a 30% tax credit now, it’s down to 26%. Which means when I got the tax credit back, (if you’re receiving a refund, which I always have a refund) that made my panel balance $12,369. Which I just ended up writing a check to pay the balance.

But, say you can’t do that? The government subsidized a 1.9% payment plan for 15 years. At $17,741 my monthly payment was $87 a month. At $12,369, if I hadn’t just paid the panels off, the bill would have been in the $60 range. $60 a month for a fixed rate electric bill for 15 years? Where are you going to beat that?

How many people can afford an EV only car? Well, a model 3 long range is $47,240, today. $7,500 federal tax credit, and $2,000 California. That makes the car $38,000ish. 15,000 miles a year for a standard car at $250 a month for fuel.

A Model 3 long range lease for 15k miles a year, is $573 a month. Minus $250 a month for fuel, and you’re at $323.

As of 2023, according to BankRate the “average” car payment is $716 or $41,445.

And how much is electricity going to cost? If you own a house, with a decent solar panel array, it’s paying for itself. Home electricity and battery charging. In California, with the amount of houses with Solar, it’s not doing anything except helping relieve the grid. Electricity can’t be any cheaper than free.

My power company also gives you up to $400 for a home charger install and $2,000 if your circuit breaker panel can’t handle the power and you need to add a sub panel or upgrade your existing electrical panel.

My house is only a few years old and was built with a dummy panel on the side wall for charger install. That’s also been a given for newer home builds, here.

Good for California and good for you....but in case you weren't aware, Cali isn't the centre of the universe. How many homes in California were built before the mandated solar panels, and how often will California ask people to not charge their EV's to avoid rolling brown/black outs? The vast majority of people aren't as fortunate as you are with your solar panels paid for by the rest of the tax paying public. The reality is we are a very very long way from having sufficient capacity and grid to have everyone driving an EV. We are a very very long way from being able to environmentally friendly mine all the components to build EV's for everyone, or to put solar panels on everyones roof. We are a pretty environmentally progressive country and the government subsidies for solar are quite small, we live in a northern climate like a good chunk of the continental US and solar panels aren't likely to provide enough energy in the short daylight winter months to power everyones homes.....even if they could afford it.

[Limegrntaln]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Good for California and good for you....but in case you weren't aware, Cali isn't the centre of the universe. How many homes in California were built before the mandated solar panels, and how often will California ask people to not charge their EV's to avoid rolling brown/black outs? The vast majority of people aren't as fortunate as you are with your solar panels paid for by the rest of the tax paying public. The reality is we are a very very long way from having sufficient capacity and grid to have everyone driving an EV. We are a very very long way from being able to environmentally friendly mine all the components to build EV's for everyone, or to put solar panels on everyones roof. We are a pretty environmentally progressive country and the government subsidies for solar are quite small, we live in a northern climate like a good chunk of the continental US and solar panels aren't likely to provide enough energy in the short daylight winter months to power everyones homes.....even if they could afford it.

True, and I wasn't even paying attention to you living in Canada. Everything is expensive in Canada. And the on road costs don't help. We are definitely extremely far from being able to do everything you said. Elon also said in the last earnings meeting that Tesla uses almost no Cobalt, so the mining that a lot of people are talking about, out there, most of it isn't mined for Tesla.

I wouldn't even be getting one to save the planet. I just don't like paying California prices for fuel. Dipshit isn't fixing the roads, he's giving money away to some programs people cant sustain. While the roads turn into trash.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Limegrntaln

True, and I wasn't even paying attention to you living in Canada. Everything is expensive in Canada. And the on road costs don't help. We are definitely extremely far from being able to do everything you said. Elon also said in the last earnings meeting that Tesla uses almost no Cobalt, so the mining that a lot of people are talking about, out there, most of it isn't mined for Tesla.

I wouldn't even be getting one to save the planet. I just don't like paying California prices for fuel. Dipshit isn't fixing the roads, he's giving money away to some programs people cant sustain. While the roads turn into trash.

And when everyone is driving EV, where is the fuel excise tax going to come from the pay for road maintenance? Guess...

[Limegrntaln]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

And when everyone is driving EV, where is the fuel excise tax going to come from the pay for road maintenance? Guess...

I already know where it's going to come from. Dip is already talking about charging people by the mile for road tax.

https://reformcalifornia.org/campaig...he-mileage-tax

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by kyriian

Math for someone with a detached home and solar panels, living in Sunny California. Yep totally applicable to every situations possible. Not like there are people in Condos, old areas of old cities, renters, cold weather places etc

Yep “math”…

Jump to conclusions much?

Every car isn't for every person, and for certain electrics aren't for everybody. But there's a lot of people for whom "the math" makes the car make sense.

When a five year evaluation shows a Tesla Model 3 performance to be cheaper in those five years than a Toyota Camry? Yes. Math. And that was home charging with paying for every kilowatt. Would that apply to people in condos? If they had a charger, or an outlet, then possibly. Renters with nothing but a 110 outlet? Can be done, and done okay. Cold weather? There's a significant impact. Enough to make the car unusable? North of Ohio, sometimes...

But pickup trucks don't work for everybody. But the Ford F-150 has been for a long time on the top ten of the worlds best selling vehicle. Does that mean it's anywhere near the best of anything? No, not really in any way.

So, my point is that the math works for a lot of people. Everybody? Of course not. Perfect? Absolutely not. Nothing is a perfect solution for anything.

Shawn

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Jump to conclusions much?

Every car isn't for every person, and for certain electrics aren't for everybody. But there's a lot of people for whom "the math" makes the car make sense.

When a five year evaluation shows a Tesla Model 3 performance to be cheaper in those five years than a Toyota Camry? Yes. Math. And that was home charging with paying for every kilowatt. Would that apply to people in condos? If they had a charger, or an outlet, then possibly. Renters with nothing but a 110 outlet? Can be done, and done okay. Cold weather? There's a significant impact. Enough to make the car unusable? North of Ohio, sometimes...

But pickup trucks don't work for everybody. But the Ford F-150 has been for a long time on the top ten of the worlds best selling vehicle. Does that mean it's anywhere near the best of anything? No, not really in any way.

So, my point is that the math works for a lot of people. Everybody? Of course not. Perfect? Absolutely not. Nothing is a perfect solution for anything.

Shawn

Well said. No perfect vehicles for anyone at all times.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Jump to conclusions much?

Every car isn't for every person, and for certain electrics aren't for everybody. But there's a lot of people for whom "the math" makes the car make sense.

When a five year evaluation shows a Tesla Model 3 performance to be cheaper in those five years than a Toyota Camry? Yes. Math. And that was home charging with paying for every kilowatt. Would that apply to people in condos? If they had a charger, or an outlet, then possibly. Renters with nothing but a 110 outlet? Can be done, and done okay. Cold weather? There's a significant impact. Enough to make the car unusable? North of Ohio, sometimes...

But pickup trucks don't work for everybody. But the Ford F-150 has been for a long time on the top ten of the worlds best selling vehicle. Does that mean it's anywhere near the best of anything? No, not really in any way.

So, my point is that the math works for a lot of people. Everybody? Of course not. Perfect? Absolutely not. Nothing is a perfect solution for anything.

Shawn

You'll have to show the math that says the Model3P is less expensive to own than a Camry.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

You'll have to show me the math that says the Model3P is less expensive to own than a Camry.

https://insideevs.com/features/52746...amry-cost/amp/

It’s a pretty comprehensive analysis.

Shawn

[BGM-M3COMP]

Lmaoooo