[Julian2485]

Originally Posted by WoodE30

Yeah I ordered the VRSF 3.5 cat back too. I spoke to Shawn on the phone too.

As for the oil lines have to be replace, I'm not real sure that's necessary. Maybe just replace the o rings. Maybe, if they have a lot of build up in them.

Yea if not clogged just replace orings and gaskets

[Emilime75]

Do other turbo vendors have the same warranty stipulations? Like an aftermarket exhaust?

[WoodE30]

Originally Posted by Emilime75

Do other turbo vendors have the same warranty stipulations? Like an aftermarket exhaust?

I spoke to Shawn owner of Dynamic Autowerxs, he told me that our stock exhaust is horrible and to get an aftermarket exhaust. Stock exhaust causes too much back pressure.

[KnighTT]

My theory is Shawn, after over a decade of being in the turbo business, doesn't like replacing turbo's due to avoidable circumstances. He was very adamant that the exhaust was a huge issue and why. After talking with him, I am surprised this hasn't come up in other turbo discussions.

I happen to agree. Yes, most performance parts companies have a good deal of stipulations on what excludes them from replacement. Frankly, if you think about it, adding any kind of longer term warranty on a performance part isn't a good business idea. 95% of people who buy performance parts.....well they use them.

I will most likely be using King bearings as I have used them in other builds to good success. They are also rather affordable. I will do some research though as the car will be heavily used on road course tracks.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Julian2485

Yea if not clogged just replace orings and gaskets

Voids their warranty per their website it sounds like. You have to use new oil/coolant lines per their warranty. You can't reuse your stock ones even though they are just fine.

https://dynamicautowerx.com/warranty

"new oil lines & return lines are required."

Now this is dead stupid as your coolant and oil lines should be fine and are SUPER easy to clean out and just need new rings etc.

So is saying the stock exhaust is a major restriction.

[Julian2485]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Voids their warranty per their website it sounds like. You have to use new oil/coolant lines per their warranty. You can't reuse your stock ones even though they are just fine.

https://dynamicautowerx.com/warranty

"new oil lines & return lines are required."

Now this is dead stupid as your coolant and oil lines should be fine and are SUPER easy to clean out and just need new rings etc.

So is saying the stock exhaust is a major restriction.

Yea I'm just going to get new lines and get custom exhaust though

[KnighTT]

Agreed. When nearly doubling the HP a vehicle was intended for, taking chances based on just saving some money is foolish.

Not picking up a couple hundred dollars in parts puts your entire car in jeopardy. That could be said of any car being modified by any enthusiast.

Would you put ANY car with 500hp through a 1" exhaust?

I'm actually looking at the upgraded high flow oil drains from RB Turbo. There are a lot of good reasons to get the oil OUT of the turbos as efficiently as possible to lengthen the life of the unit.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by KnighTT

Agreed. When nearly doubling the HP a vehicle was intended for, taking chances based on just saving some money is foolish.

Not picking up a couple hundred dollars in parts puts your entire car in jeopardy. That could be said of any car being modified by any enthusiast.

Would you put ANY car with 500hp through a 1" exhaust?

I'm actually looking at the upgraded high flow oil drains from RB Turbo. There are a lot of good reasons to get the oil OUT of the turbos as efficiently as possible to lengthen the life of the unit.

It is super easy to clean the lines and there is ZERO reason for new ones unless you somehow fuck them up on the uninstall(hard). No other turbo vendor requires all new lines. No other turbo vendors suggests replacing the exhaust at these low twin power levels.

People who say you need a exhaust at 500-600wp are new to this platform. The e90/91/92/93 has dual 2.5" ID mandrel bent tubing.

IIRC the record is 835whp 720wtq on VM top mount kit. Fully catless, no secondary cats either, just resonators instead of the rear cats and OEM mufflers.

VTT 2+ made 700whp with a stock catted exhaust.

If exhaust back pressure via the downpipes back was a restriction on this platform every turbo vendor twin or single would recommend an exhaust upgrade, which they don't. Payam at BMS dropped his exhaust at 700whp, retuned, and saw zero gain.

Finally as much as I like RB you can't have more oil exit than goes in. While bigger drains sound nice I really question the need. If it was important others would offer the same product and require it. Like inlets, or outlets. All things that help turbos breath and live easier.

[KnighTT]

There are areas of the stock exhaust system that have been proven to be restricted to as little as 1" ID. A quick google search will yield several pictures where the piping is heavily restricted and purposefully collapsed, welded, to retain clearances. Shawn was actually kind enough to provide this proof when we were talking. He is actually pretty passionate about this one leading cause of turbo failure. I was seriously surprised.

Drag racing and breaking dyno records is no indication to the life, durability, and quality of a performance part or vehicle.

I can win a world record overclocking my gaming PC and then it literally never turns on ever again. Baked to a crisp. Records are made by taking a car/plane/rocket/etc to the bleeding edge. They usually require serious repair or rebuilding after they set such records. That's one things people don't talk about all that often.

I hope this helps those doing their homework as I just want to see people succeed.

I began my n54 journey thinking FBO and then new turbo's could easily equal incredible outcomes, for frankly small $. Partially true. The more you dig, the more you find that those aspirations end with youtube videos and forums threads ending in smoke and people thinking the n54 platform is a POS. Proper platform, poor execution. More specifically, cheap execution.

I, and I mean me personally, am building my car to run time attack and road coarse racing. These consist of 20 to 30 minute runs where heat and poor quality are the enemy. There is a huge difference between a part that can take you down a 10 second 1/4 mile several times and one that can take the heat and abuse of 30 minute circuits or all day race events over multiple seasons. So, personally, every part in this car needs to be reviewed for this intent. Especially anything regarding FI and the extensive supporting systems that cool, lubricate, and keep the back-pressure and heat out of it.

That being said, will the DW turbos stand the test of time for what I need them for? Who knows. What I will do is fulfill the stipulations of the warranty, the advice of those who know more than I, and give myself at least the peace of mind that for 3 years they are covered.

[SlimE92]

Originally Posted by Torgus

It is super easy to clean the lines and there is ZERO reason for new ones unless you somehow fuck them up on the uninstall(hard). No other turbo vendor requires all new lines. No other turbo vendors suggests replacing the exhaust at these low twin power levels.

People who say you need a exhaust at 500-600wp are new to this platform. The e90/91/92/93 has dual 2.5" ID mandrel bent tubing.

IIRC the record is 835whp 720wtq on VM top mount kit. Fully catless, no secondary cats either, just resonators instead of the rear cats and OEM mufflers.

VTT 2+ made 700whp with a stock catted exhaust.

If exhaust back pressure via the downpipes back was a restriction on this platform every turbo vendor twin or single would recommend an exhaust upgrade, which they don't. Payam at BMS dropped his exhaust at 700whp, retuned, and saw zero gain.

Finally as much as I like RB you can't have more oil exit than goes in. While bigger drains sound nice I really question the need. If it was important others would offer the same product and require it. Like inlets, or outlets. All things that help turbos breath and live easier.

These are very accurate facts you speak.

[BM3Rrrr]

So really at the end of the day if you buy DAW turbos you need/should get a new exhaust as per the owner of DAW? If the turbos fail and you have stock exhaust are they still covered by the 3yr warranty?

[Emilime75]

Originally Posted by Emilime75

Do other turbo vendors have the same warranty stipulations? Like an aftermarket exhaust?

Originally Posted by WoodE30

I spoke to Shawn owner of Dynamic Autowerxs, he told me that our stock exhaust is horrible and to get an aftermarket exhaust. Stock exhaust causes too much back pressure.

Originally Posted by KnighTT

My theory is Shawn, after over a decade of being in the turbo business, doesn't like replacing turbo's due to avoidable circumstances. He was very adamant that the exhaust was a huge issue and why. After talking with him, I am surprised this hasn't come up in other turbo discussions.

I happen to agree. Yes, most performance parts companies have a good deal of stipulations on what excludes them from replacement. Frankly, if you think about it, adding any kind of longer term warranty on a performance part isn't a good business idea. 95% of people who buy performance parts.....well they use them.

I will most likely be using King bearings as I have used them in other builds to good success. They are also rather affordable. I will do some research though as the car will be heavily used on road course tracks.

So, that's a no?

[ev1l335]

Originally Posted by KnighTT

There are areas of the stock exhaust system that have been proven to be restricted to as little as 1" ID. A quick google search will yield several pictures where the piping is heavily restricted and purposefully collapsed, welded, to retain clearances. Shawn was actually kind enough to provide this proof when we were talking. He is actually pretty passionate about this one leading cause of turbo failure. I was seriously surprised.

Drag racing and breaking dyno records is no indication to the life, durability, and quality of a performance part or vehicle.

I can win a world record overclocking my gaming PC and then it literally never turns on ever again. Baked to a crisp. Records are made by taking a car/plane/rocket/etc to the bleeding edge. They usually require serious repair or rebuilding after they set such records. That's one things people don't talk about all that often.

I hope this helps those doing their homework as I just want to see people succeed.

I began my n54 journey thinking FBO and then new turbo's could easily equal incredible outcomes, for frankly small $. Partially true. The more you dig, the more you find that those aspirations end with youtube videos and forums threads ending in smoke and people thinking the n54 platform is a POS. Proper platform, poor execution. More specifically, cheap execution.

I, and I mean me personally, am building my car to run time attack and road coarse racing. These consist of 20 to 30 minute runs where heat and poor quality are the enemy. There is a huge difference between a part that can take you down a 10 second 1/4 mile several times and one that can take the heat and abuse of 30 minute circuits or all day race events over multiple seasons. So, personally, every part in this car needs to be reviewed for this intent. Especially anything regarding FI and the extensive supporting systems that cool, lubricate, and keep the back-pressure and heat out of it.

That being said, will the DW turbos stand the test of time for what I need them for? Who knows. What I will do is fulfill the stipulations of the warranty, the advice of those who know more than I, and give myself at least the peace of mind that for 3 years they are covered.

I did search and could not find mention of restriction that is 1" ID, do you have a reference to thread that mentions that? What I have found are mentions of 2.36" or 60mm, I believe that there are restrictions in some places, but down to 1" sounds unreal, also taking into account people mentioning that stock exhaust without DP is good up to 500HP.

I base my knowledge on these threads:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=453881
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159273
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390738
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1131820
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=536459
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360761
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=930520

[type-dRew]

I've never seen anyone say the factory exhaust is any smaller than 2.3 at any given point. Its actually a fairly sound fact that the factory exhaust is not a restriction whatsoever and people running even 600-700hp gain only single digits or maybe a small amount more upgrading.

I've had my exhaust off the car and swapped it for an n55 system with no secondary cats and no resonator, but even my stock system with those restrcitions had no area where it was pinched anywhere.

I have no idea where or why it would be, its run in a fairly straightforward format, it doesn't have to do any major twists or turns or go over any subframe. Everywhere that is bent its bent with mandrel bends and very long fluid curves.

I cannot understand, aside from wanting to get rid of the secondary cats, why anyone would swap the stock exhaust when its been proven to not be a restriction more than anything else for the past decade or better.

Now, that being said, im sure there ARE minor gains to be had by upgrading even at lower power levels, but calling it a restriction seems like one of the larger stretches i've seen.

[Julian2485]

Originally Posted by ev1l335

I did search and could not find mention of restriction that is 1" ID, do you have a reference to thread that mentions that? What I have found are mentions of 2.36" or 60mm, I believe that there are restrictions in some places, but down to 1" sounds unreal, also taking into account people mentioning that stock exhaust without DP is good up to 500HP.

I base my knowledge on these threads:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=453881
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159273
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390738
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1131820
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=536459
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360761
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=930520

Sean did proved proof where some parts of the exhaust go down to about 1.4" not 1".

[Cabdriver]

His turbos just become more expensive if you must buy an exhaust to maintain the warranty....value is eroding.

[type-dRew]

Minor dents in the exhaust or manifolds have been dyno proven not to lose power, i wouldn't worry about those.

Hell Engine Masters did an episode showing a dented long tube header gaining power with massive dents in it. lol

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by type-dRew

Minor dents in the exhaust or manifolds have been dyno proven not to lose power, i wouldn't worry about those.

Hell Engine Masters did an episode showing a dented long tube header gaining power with massive dents in it. lol

Right but the questions is if you want to keep you warranty does he says you need upgraded exhaust, and if he requires that why lol.

[type-dRew]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Right but the questions is if you want to keep you warranty does he says you need upgraded exhaust, and if he requires that why lol.

Yeah that sucks.

I started out pushing these because it seemed to be a great deal, made in america with good parts and warranty, but have been soured on that from friends experiences. If you're talking about making them the same price as other options because of stuff required to take advantage of warranty. Yeah, not worth it. Ill get some RB 2's or similar.

[NoGuru]

When it comes down to it, show me some scientific proof that the exhaust is restrictive or else I will pretty much ignore you.

[HKD126]

Originally Posted by type-dRew

Yeah that sucks.

I started out pushing these because it seemed to be a great deal, made in america with good parts and warranty, but have been soured on that from friends experiences. If you're talking about making them the same price as other options because of stuff required to take advantage of warranty. Yeah, not worth it. Ill get some RB 2's or similar.

RB Two’s are $2100 with install kit and RB inlets! I just bought the Two Plus’s. The Two’s have also just been updated with 11 blade turbines.

[type-dRew]

Originally Posted by HKD126

RB Two’s are $2100 with install kit and RB inlets! I just bought the Two Plus’s.

Are they on sale right now?