[SP335]

If I was in this guys shoes, I would put on a full fire proof race suit, get the best helmet money can buy, then I would proceed to find a wall to run my car straight in to, totaling the car, taking my bill from $14k to $500 for my insurance deductable.

[bmwzimmer]

The downpipes I saw installed at a local shop had tape to prevent the peanut foam from getting in but there was still a couple pieces in it.
The DP's have a couple openings for the O2 sensor that was never taped.
Was the intake pipes totally blocked off with tape so nothing could get in?

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by SP335

If I was in this guys shoes, I would put on a full fire proof race suit, get the best helmet money can buy, then I would proceed to find a wall to run my car straight in to, totaling the car, taking my bill from $14k to $500 for my insurance deductable.

[BALLAJL15]

well mayb you should talk to shiv about a boost spike... even if I am running 22lbs it still doesn't cause turbo failure... Boost Spike: Boost spike is when the boost level initially "spikes" up to higher than the preset boost setting, and then quickly settles back down to where it should be. As most people with turbos know, once the boost pressure in the intake starts to rise, the rate at which it rises quickly increases until the pressure is increasing at a phenomenal rate. This means that, if your boost is set at 12 psi, when it reaches that point it will be increasing so quickly that it will go higher than 12 psi and then drop back down once the boost control system can correct it, which is within a half second or so. There for at 4000rpm at 22 psi is no different to 14 at 5800 rpm.

[Robertbog]

Originally Posted by BALLAJL15

well mayb you should talk to shiv about a boost spike... even if I am running 22lbs it still doesn't cause turbo failure... Boost Spike: Boost spike is when the boost level initially "spikes" up to higher than the preset boost setting, and then quickly settles back down to where it should be. As most people with turbos know, once the boost pressure in the intake starts to rise, the rate at which it rises quickly increases until the pressure is increasing at a phenomenal rate. This means that, if your boost is set at 12 psi, when it reaches that point it will be increasing so quickly that it will go higher than 12 psi and then drop back down once the boost control system can correct it, which is within a half second or so. There for at 4000rpm at 22 psi is no different to 14 at 5800 rpm.

I'm not talking about a spike. I'm talking about a pull causing a constant 22psi. Second, third, 4th or 5th from down low with V2 intake and dp's is known by people to show and hold those numbers. Of course it feels amazingly fast, but if you hold 22psi lol you are going to blow the turbos. Dont confuse what im saying for spikes lol. Get a boost gauge.

Lol on v2, buddy, the waste gates dont let off until like 6700 rpms lol. I dont know where you are getting your info, but you arent understanding what i'm saying to you, and without a gauge you dont and cannot know.

Btw, at temps of around 170-200 degrees how would a packing peanut not just be melted beyond nothing, the evaporation point cant be that high, they do combust/ignite under a decent temperature lol. Lol I just dont see a packing peanut being that much of a problem, maybe in the inside of the IC but the turbo? I mean anything can happen right? but for real? and on an intake doesnt it come disassembled? werent the ends taken off? didnt you shake it around to put it on the car?

lol the second half of this thread makes me either want to conform or wonder if i took a stupid pill this morning. lol. Lol the $15,000 Packing Peanut, and people say the Magic Bullet theory is unreasonable.

[BALLAJL15]

I didnt even get the car in to 3rd gear... the turbo blew in second 4 houses down from mine... and it wasnt a packing peanut there was tape on the outside so that theory is gone.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Robertbog

I'm not talking about a spike. I'm talking about a pull causing a constant 22psi. Second, third, 4th or 5th from down low with V2 intake and dp's is known by people to show and hold those numbers. Of course it feels amazingly fast, but if you hold 22psi lol you are going to blow the turbos. Dont confuse what im saying for spikes lol. Get a boost gauge.

Lol on v2, buddy, the waste gates dont let off until like 6700 rpms lol. I dont know where you are getting your info, but you arent understanding what i'm saying to you, and without a gauge you dont and cannot know.

Btw, at temps of around 170-200 degrees how would a packing peanut not just be melted beyond nothing, the evaporation point cant be that high, they do combust/ignite under a decent temperature lol. Lol I just dont see a packing peanut being that much of a problem, maybe in the inside of the IC but the turbo? I mean anything can happen right? but for real? and on an intake doesnt it come disassembled? werent the ends taken off? didnt you shake it around to put it on the car?

lol the second half of this thread makes me either want to conform or wonder if i took a stupid pill this morning. lol. Lol the $15,000 Packing Peanut, and people say the Magic Bullet theory is unreasonable.

You really need to bet a better understand of turbosystems. The packing peanut, if it had been the foreign object in question, won't melt because the air temp is ambient, not "170-200 degrees". We are talking about the compressor inlet, not outlet. And yes, it can do some serious damage to a turbo that is spinning at 150,000rpm.

shiv

[stressdoc]

My initial thought was a screw, washer, or a nut might have made it through. Turbine blades are made of pretty amazing materials -- the ones I'm quasi-familiar with are ceramics and a bit different from the Mitsus -- but they are all rather brittle. The peanut hypothesis seems credible, anything going fast enough or sticky enough to throw the turbine off could result in failure. I would bet on a polystyrene one over the corn starch variety.

Send this one to Mythbusters?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

My initial thought was a screw, washer, or a nut might have made it through. Turbine blades are made of pretty amazing materials -- the ones I'm quasi-familiar with are ceramics and a bit different from the Mitsus -- but they are all rather brittle. The peanut hypothesis seems credible, anything going fast enough or sticky enough to throw the turbine off could result in failure. I would bet on a polystyrene one over the corn starch variety.

Send this one to Mythbusters?

Everything you say about turbines is totally true. But we are talking about the lightweight aluminum compressor wheel here. Way more delicate than the turbine wheel. Plus, if anything like a peanut was on the exhaust side, it would evaporate in no time flat!

[tek818]

Originally Posted by BALLAJL15

I didnt even get the car in to 3rd gear... the turbo blew in second 4 houses down from mine... and it wasnt a packing peanut there was tape on the outside so that theory is gone.

this may be listed elsewhere, but how many miles on the car when the turbo blew?

[jcarlucci1]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

You really need to bet a better understand of turbosystems. The packing peanut, if it had been the foreign object in question, won't melt because the air temp is ambient, not "170-200 degrees". We are talking about the compressor inlet, not outlet. And yes, it can do some serious damage to a turbo that is spinning at 150,000rpm.

shiv

How does this explain the fact that both turbo's were blown? If it was a foreign object wouldn't it just affect one of them?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by jcarlucci1

How does this explain the fact that both turbo's were blown? If it was a foreign object wouldn't it just affect one of them?

Only one turbo is "blown". The rear one. The dealership diagnosed the front one as having some noise but once one turbo fails (and contaminates the oil system), the other one can suffer as well.

Shiv

[r10apple]

For my first post on this forum, I can honestly say that I was at a shop in Orlando, at a meet of Acura people, and a guy installed a new intake on his turbo Integra. He drove about 3 blocks at WOT after the install, and his turbo sucked a screw into the housing and blew...

Similarly, I remember being OVERLY conscious of the install of my Injen intake, and though it did have a plastic sheathing over the disassembled tube, it indeed had PEANUTS in the box, and I specifically recall a couple being in the tube and having to get little bits of them out of the filter inlet, too.

Just as a threadhijacking aside, what's up scalbert? I remember your old CL-S from WAYYYYYY back...

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Robertbog

I'm not talking about a spike. I'm talking about a pull causing a constant 22psi. Second, third, 4th or 5th from down low with V2 intake and dp's is known by people to show and hold those numbers. Of course it feels amazingly fast, but if you hold 22psi lol you are going to blow the turbos. Dont confuse what im saying for spikes lol. Get a boost gauge.

Lol on v2, buddy, the waste gates dont let off until like 6700 rpms lol. I dont know where you are getting your info, but you arent understanding what i'm saying to you, and without a gauge you dont and cannot know.

Btw, at temps of around 170-200 degrees how would a packing peanut not just be melted beyond nothing, the evaporation point cant be that high, they do combust/ignite under a decent temperature lol. Lol I just dont see a packing peanut being that much of a problem, maybe in the inside of the IC but the turbo? I mean anything can happen right? but for real? and on an intake doesnt it come disassembled? werent the ends taken off? didnt you shake it around to put it on the car?

lol the second half of this thread makes me either want to conform or wonder if i took a stupid pill this morning. lol. Lol the $15,000 Packing Peanut, and people say the Magic Bullet theory is unreasonable.

Not saying the V2 caused the turbo failure,but here is very similar information from another E90 thread tonight from PARK2670:

Im seeing 20 PSI with everything stock on V2. Settings at 85. Stock boost is around 10 because of my elevation.

Its not a common problem however. 85% of the time im flooring it, the boost goes right up to 15PSI and stays. Just the other 15% it goes wacko and flys up to around 20 and stays until i let go of the gas. I have just been driving stock until I can figure out what I am going to do.
__________________

[Robertbog]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Not saying the V2 caused the turbo failure,but here is very similar information from another E90 thread tonight from PARK2670:

Im seeing 20 PSI with everything stock on V2. Settings at 85. Stock boost is around 10 because of my elevation.

Its not a common problem however. 85% of the time im flooring it, the boost goes right up to 15PSI and stays. Just the other 15% it goes wacko and flys up to around 20 and stays until i let go of the gas. I have just been driving stock until I can figure out what I am going to do.
__________________

I noticed it is relative to the engine speed you hit the gas from, if you floor it from 2k in 2nd, vs 3.5k, you will notice that the boost will be higher when you reach 5k or 5.7k

[Robertbog]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

You really need to bet a better understand of turbosystems. The packing peanut, if it had been the foreign object in question, won't melt because the air temp is ambient, not "170-200 degrees". We are talking about the compressor inlet, not outlet. And yes, it can do some serious damage to a turbo that is spinning at 150,000rpm.

shiv

But metal at 150,000 rpm vs a packing peanut? I see the turbo winning that, not that crazy stuff doesnt happen every day, but I dont see anyone A) Being this careless on a 50k car B) Being that unfortunate from a packing peanut, and if it was C) a screw, I could see how we could get some damage, but how do you get a screw into your intake on this motor, without noticing.

Without a boost gauge, if he held 22+psi all the way to red line in those first 4 blocks, he may have killed it.

[trueblue]

Originally Posted by O-cha

What you have said applies to some car, hell not even the majority. But it does not apply to this one for sure.

Please enlighten me on what cars the information does NOT apply to and why. I love to hear this.
And by the way, I have owned 97 twin turbo supra (converted to single T78), 93 sequential twin turbo RX-7 (also converted to single RX6 dual ball bearing turbo). The Supra runs on Microtec, the RX-7 runs on AEM. Both have intake/exhaust/fuel system upgrades. I did all mechanical work and dyno tuning (I tune quite a few other peoples cars as well). The supra puts down 780 whp on pump gas, the RX-7 puts down 425.
Again I ask you, what cars have you worked on where this information does not apply to.

[Park2670]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Not saying the V2 caused the turbo failure,but here is very similar information from another E90 thread tonight from PARK2670:

Im seeing 20 PSI with everything stock on V2. Settings at 85. Stock boost is around 10 because of my elevation.

Its not a common problem however. 85% of the time im flooring it, the boost goes right up to 15PSI and stays. Just the other 15% it goes wacko and flys up to around 20 and stays until i let go of the gas. I have just been driving stock until I can figure out what I am going to do.
__________________

[getInline]

Originally Posted by BALLAJL15

I didnt even get the car in to 3rd gear... the turbo blew in second 4 houses down from mine... and it wasnt a packing peanut there was tape on the outside so that theory is gone.

Given this information it is almost certainly related to the installation (and a foreign object entering the turbo), either that or it was the 400,000rpm mother of all boost spikes. This poor guy didn't even make it down the block after just installing his brand new cold air intake, what does that tell you? Sorry for your loss dude!

[stressdoc]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Everything you say about turbines is totally true. But we are talking about the lightweight aluminum compressor wheel here. Way more delicate than the turbine wheel. Plus, if anything like a peanut was on the exhaust side, it would evaporate in no time flat!

I was calling the intake compressor wheel a turbine. I don't think anyone is visualizing a peanut making it into a cylinder and out the exhaust to that side of the turbo.

We need a graphic -- somehow I suspect someone will pop up with a emoticon with a flying peanut...

Here is one from Garrett [the blue arrow would be the peanut]:

[BALLAJL15]

Originally Posted by Robertbog

But metal at 150,000 rpm vs a packing peanut? I see the turbo winning that, not that crazy stuff doesnt happen every day, but I dont see anyone A) Being this careless on a 50k car B) Being that unfortunate from a packing peanut, and if it was C) a screw, I could see how we could get some damage, but how do you get a screw into your intake on this motor, without noticing.

Without a boost gauge, if he held 22+psi all the way to red line in those first 4 blocks, he may have killed it.

You dont understand the situation... I didnt red line it and it wasnt 4 blocks... 4 houses.... it was in second gear when the turbo whine occurred... at about 5500 rpm there was no boost spike from me going through all the gears.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by BALLAJL15

I sent shiv a pm about how the intake could have caused possible a boost spike... I do believe a boost spike is what caused the turbos to suddenly fail.

That's what I've been saying all along, you need to understand that with V2 with catless DP and an intake you're going to get boost spiking. V2 is compromised in that it doesn't even know if boost is spiking past 15PSI so it is a very likely case that your boost spiked and went unchecked. I have personally experienced this when V2 first came out.

Originally Posted by BALLAJL15

at about 5500 rpm there was no boost spike from me going through all the gears.

THAT YOU KNOW OF You have no boost gauge, the software will not tell you if you have a boost spike as it cannot read it. Would be nice if the manufacturer issued a recall or at least provided the information to customers who don't spend time on these forums huh?




Now that I have that out of the way, I actually agree with shiv. Given that it happened right after the install I'm going to say you fubared that some how.

But driving with V2 with catless DP without a boost gauge was a poor poor decision.