[DWR]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

I put the 3300 mbar/4500 rpm data point on the map below. If you add in the pressure drop issues, it would be even farther off the map... if I'm calculating the flow correctly

You can go over pressure, but you're right TDIwyse, that choke line to the right is a steep hill. The highest boost comes around 3000 rpm. Looks like when he approaches 4500 rpm the pressure drops, so I don't think we are violating any laws of physics.

[pheno]

TDIwyse, would you have possibility to try your obd cable with PC/laptop or try even some other obd cable with your tablet ? Just trying to rule out what is causing slowness. This is kind of bugging me as you can see because I know sampling rate should be much better..

[pheno]

Here's one log from 35d, 4th gear WOT (or at least one of them according to 35d) loaded into Megalogviewer. Sampling speed is 70ms/sample which contains 7 data points. ECU is D62M57A0.

actual boost: bpscd_poutval
desired boost: pcr_pdesval
exhaust temp: oxiccdd_tpre
air mass mg/stroke: afscd_airpercyl
actual injection quantity: injctl_qcurr
turbo actuator duty cycle: bpacd_rout
lambda: lsu_rlmbd

Also added video how to work with megalogviewer

Total amateur observation of the first pic and second "row" where is only duty cycle and actual boost pressure. Duty cycle is "suddenly" set to lowest value 9% but still boost pressure keeps on climbing reaching 3486. Does this mean turbo's actuator is stuck to open or something ?

[DWR]

Nice work Pheno!

I guess the first question is are we seeing wastegate actuation of the HP or LP turbo? Pretty sure the LP opens with vaccum, but I'm not sure about the HP. I bet iaknown knows for sure I think we might be looking at the wrong wastegate actuator. If I were designing the system I would make the HP wastegate normally open, as a failsafe (for whatever that is worth).

[pheno]

Originally Posted by DWR

Nice work Pheno!

I guess the first question is are we seeing wastegate actuation of the HP or LP turbo? Pretty sure the LP opens with vaccum, but I'm not sure about the HP. I bet iaknown knows for sure I think we might be looking at the wrong wastegate actuator. If I were designing the system I would make the HP wastegate normally open, as a failsafe (for whatever that is worth).

That is true. Need to find out for sure what bpacd_rout is. Maybe there are better translations in other org files messwertetab. But hey you guys are so awesome you have to know which one it is :-)

[DWR]

Originally Posted by 35d

I don't understand why my issue is diffrent to iaknown, tdi wise etc, ok I don't have open exhaust but dpf gutted surely is decreasing back pressure

If that is the case, then it is hard to understand why your aren't heeding their advice - more wastegate flow OR more downstream restriction.

Many here emphathize with your plight, including me. You are getting outstanding support. At this point, the difference between you and iaknown or TDIwyse is they have made corrective changes, you have not. Short of encouragement, it is hard to know what more can be said.

But, if you do believe there might be something else causing the problem, then we are here to help. Really.

[iaknown]

Originally Posted by DWR

Nice work Pheno!

I guess the first question is are we seeing wastegate actuation of the HP or LP turbo? Pretty sure the LP opens with vaccum, but I'm not sure about the HP. I bet iaknown knows for sure I think we might be looking at the wrong wastegate actuator. If I were designing the system I would make the HP wastegate normally open, as a failsafe (for whatever that is worth).

If my memory serves me correctly that parameter we are seeing is the turbine actuator valve not the wastegate. If compared against rpm it it should always be switching around 2900rpm. The other actuator is the compressor bypass valve but that is an on/off signal whereas the turbine valve is a varying duty cycle as we can see in the graph.

Have we ever found the correct wastegate duty cycle signal yet?

[iaknown]

Originally Posted by 35d

I don't understand why my issue is diffrent to iaknown, tdi wise etc, ok I don't have open exhaust but dpf gutted surely is decreasing back pressure

All of what DWR said....And who said your issue is different than mine? After my remap and DPF delete my car would still overboost even with the stock SCR midpipe on. Your overboost actually looks better than mine did. My tuner said he saw this happen on a X5d too, so now you're the 3rd we know of to come across it.

While 3300mbar may be off the compressor map we also need to remember that it is a safe max according to what Megaspeed and Jarek know is reliable. There are a bunch of these cars running all over Europe with no issues and their tuning is based on what is going to last. Much better than some other tuners that just remove all of the boost protection. So if you're under 3300mbar max then have your tuner adjust the map. If not port your wastegate. End of story.

[pheno]

Originally Posted by iaknown

If my memory serves me correctly that parameter we are seeing is the turbine actuator valve not the wastegate. If compared against rpm it it should always be switching around 2900rpm. The other actuator is the compressor bypass valve but that is an on/off signal whereas the turbine valve is a varying duty cycle as we can see in the graph.

Have we ever found the correct wastegate duty cycle signal yet?

DDE that 35d has is D62M57A0 and 335d uses D73N57C0.

I found this in D73N57C0 messwertetab: PCR_rCtlVal, Ladedruck-Steueranteil der Stellgrösse. Sounds like some wastegate/actuator duty signal?

[iaknown]

Originally Posted by pheno

DDE that 35d has is D62M57A0 and 335d uses D73N57C0.

I found this in D73N57C0 messwertetab: PCR_rCtlVal, Ladedruck-Steueranteil der Stellgrösse. Sounds like some wastegate/actuator duty signal?

Hmmm, so who will be first to log it??

[pheno]

Originally Posted by iaknown

Hmmm, so who will be first to log it??

I'd vote for me if I had 335d ;-)

D62M57A0 has both messwertetab and betriebswtab tables.

Betriebswtab:
BPACD_rOut, Tastverhältnis zur Endstufenansteuerung - BPA

Messwertetab:
BPACD_Rout, STAT_LADEDRUCKSTELLER_ANSTEUERUNG_WERT

LADEDRUCKSTELLER_ANSTEUERUNG --> is this same as 'boost controller' ? this is the same what 35d logged

[35d]

Originally Posted by DWR

If that is the case, then it is hard to understand why your aren't heeding their advice - more wastegate flow OR more downstream restriction.

Many here emphathize with your plight, including me. You are getting outstanding support. At this point, the difference between you and iaknown or TDIwyse is they have made corrective changes, you have not. Short of encouragement, it is hard to know what more can be said.

But, if you do believe there might be something else causing the problem, then we are here to help. Really.

I really appreciate all the support from you guys and phenon who before I joined this thread has been helping to log data. You guys really know your stuff. Just by looking at the uk technical were I posted I was getting stuff like shit map etc
You can see just from my issue how much the thread has grown and everyone has given advise and explained things which were more technical to understand.

Reason why nothing has been done up until now is because I was hoping it was something with the tune which could be fixed as it would be easiest and less costly fix. Also I was testing and logging trying too see if any hardware failure or sensor issue and also speaking to a few good tunners there was a mixed opinion on the issue. Some were sure it's software issue and said they fixed before for customer. All are very helpful and have made various chnaged to map to see if it does the trick. So it's been case of changing way dpf removed or changing land values, boost tables, n75 adjustments etc. unfortunately none have really fixed the issue

So now as I still have a spare dpf I will put it back on when I get some time and see what diffeence it makes. Never logged before so will see if the boost stays were it should which I expect. From there most likely option to port Wastagte.

Phenom my ecu is what you said but car is 535d LCI 286 same engine and setup as 335d. There is may owners local to me with same mods and they say car drives great a lot of power and no issues, but like me before coming to this thread and experiencing limp mode I also thought all was good. They guys running ecotune says no issues others with gut and tune have experinced limp mode but no codes so off and on engine and carry on.

[zackz]

iaknown, do you know the size of the stock wastegate flapper?

I've around 400 hp, and as most of us, I'm experencing over boosting, so I will port the stock wastegate or add an external one...

But I would like to be sure before that the stock wastegate spring/flapper are strong enough to keep the boost down low.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by 35d

So now as I still have a spare dpf I will put it back on when I get some time and see what diffeence it makes. Never logged before so will see if the boost stays were it should which I expect. From there most likely option to port Wastagte.

While I appreciate what we all would learn from the experiment. If the DPF is coming off, I would strongly urge you to port the wastegate, per iaknown's instructions. If the boost is still there, you will have reduced the possible reasons to a very short list. If it is not there - I guess I don't have to explain that part Under the scenario you described, you either have the same short list of possible reasons, or you get to take the DPF off again and port the wastegate. I'm suggesting that you might possibly save your self a step.

[zackz]

Originally Posted by DWR

While I appreciate what we all would learn from the experiment. If the DPF is coming off, I would strongly urge you to port the wastegate, per iaknown's instructions. If the boost is still there, you will have reduced the possible reasons to a very short list. If it is not there - I guess I don't have to explain that part Under the scenario you described, you either have the same short list of possible reasons, or you get to take the DPF off again and port the wastegate. I'm suggesting that you might possibly save your self a step.

The overboosting problem is definately related to the stock wastegate size...

For someone who's looking for performance gains, the best solution will always be to work on it, we don't want to put restrictions back in or after the turbo downpipe.

However, working on the remap for avoiding limp mode at the 400 hp level is possible without removing ecu safety protections, but the overboosting will be still here, just a little under the limp mode level...

[35d]

Power is not that important to me. I'm more interested in a healthy engine and turbo. The dpf did not really cause me much issues other then a blast on the highway once a week or so to keep it from blocking up. I wanted to improve the throttle response and drivability of the car. After the swirl flaps were removed the engine sure felt a very small amount of power loss low down. The remap made the car alive and very responsive that is what I was looking for and not neck snapping sort of power. Some will want max power others not. Anyway car was remaped for 350/700nm. Once I had it dynod it made 376/750. I spoke to my tunner as I wanted a safe map and had concern with the tourque being over the gearbox limit. He assured me tourque limiters were set to 700nm and no way engine could make that power and said dyno incorrect reading. After reading I found this thread and started to log and experince overboost.



Few questions please if you guys don't mind
1. If possible is there any more detail on porting the Wastagte. Is it case of remove dpf and open actuator with vacum then use drill with right bit and drill through? How deep?
2. If it goes too big what can be done?
3. If in future I wanted to fit dpf back would that hole now be too big? Especially with stock map
4. Without porting and dpf back on with remap would I see same issue of overboost?
Thanks
Ps you guys running a gutted dpf tin or nice shinny downpipe with no catalyst or dpf ?

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by 35d

Few questions please if you guys don't mind
1. If possible is there any more detail on porting the Wastagte. Is it case of remove dpf and open actuator with vacum then use drill with right bit and drill through? How deep?
2. If it goes too big what can be done?
3. If in future I wanted to fit dpf back would that hole now be too big? Especially with stock map
4. Without porting and dpf back on with remap would I see same issue of overboost?
Thanks
Ps you guys running a gutted dpf tin or nice shinny downpipe with no catalyst or dpf ?

1-2: Go back to post #1 of this thread. Iaknown has updated his description with a little bit more detail now.
3. I don't think it's going to be a problem, but would like the others with more knowledge chime in.
4. I'd say that depends on your tune.
PS: Nice and shiny piece of art. See here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1083607

[Yozh]

Originally Posted by iaknown

While 3300mbar may be off the compressor map we also need to remember that it is a safe max according to what Megaspeed and Jarek know is reliable. There are a bunch of these cars running all over Europe with no issues and their tuning is based on what is going to last. Much better than some other tuners that just remove all of the boost protection. So if you're under 3300mbar max then have your tuner adjust the map. If not port your wastegate. End of story.

Are we talking about boost? My simple calculator says that 3300mbar is 48psi. And this is a safe max? I was under impression that if you are over 30psi (2100mbar) boost then that needs to be tackled. Can we please clarify?

[DWR]

3. The wastegate opening to actuator duty cycle may need adaption by the DDE, if you go back to stock. The DDE cannot adapt for too small an opening.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Yozh

Are we talking about boost? My simple calculator says that 3300mbar is 48psi. And this is a safe max? I was under impression that if you are over 30psi (2100mbar) boost then that needs to be tackled. Can we please clarify?

Absolute pressure. Subtract out atmospheric pressure ~ 14.7.

[iaknown]

Originally Posted by 35d

Few questions please if you guys don't mind
1. If possible is there any more detail on porting the Wastagte. Is it case of remove dpf and open actuator with vacum then use drill with right bit and drill through? How deep?
2. If it goes too big what can be done?
3. If in future I wanted to fit dpf back would that hole now be too big? Especially with stock map
4. Without porting and dpf back on with remap would I see same issue of overboost?

Just to add to what's already been posted
1) I did update the 1st post since I started the thread as mentioned. The actuator needs to be disconnected from the flapper and moved out of the way. You won't even be close with the actuator still attached. It needs to be drilled until you get through the other side. You'll know.
2) Don't go too big and you won't have to ask that!
3) I doubt it will be too big. As mentioned the dde may try to adapt. But even if its off a few psi the dde may not care. You still have other options too like tightening up the preload on the wastegate to make it open less with the larger hole.
4) Doubt it and only if something is wrong with the car....but sounds like you'll know soon

Originally Posted by zackz

iaknown, do you know the size of the stock wastegate flapper?

I've around 400 hp, and as most of us, I'm experencing over boosting, so I will port the stock wastegate or add an external one...

But I would like to be sure before that the stock wastegate spring/flapper are strong enough to keep the boost down low.

Didn't measure the flapper but at the 9/16" (14.28mm) ported hole I ended up with there was probably 1/16" all around it. So that puts the flapper at roughly 11/16" (17.46mm). My logs show the stock wastegate holding the boost just fine through the entire range.

[zackz]

Originally Posted by iaknown

Didn't measure the flapper but at the 9/16" (14.28mm) ported hole I ended up with there was probably 1/16" all around it. So that puts the flapper at roughly 11/16" (17.46mm). My logs show the stock wastegate holding the boost just fine through the entire range.

Sounds good! Thanks!

And what is your max boost/power level now with the mod? Is it under the big turbo safety limit (3200-3300 mbar)?