[CantCatchMe]

Originally Posted by trixdout

I'm going based off the idea that everyone and their mother can get 91/93 not e85. E85 is the issue here with any aftermarket turbo setup for us.

You are probably right when it comes to running flex fuel, the jb4 is better than cobb. I'll probably be running port injection rather than e85 since i can't get it readily (granted its only 20 minutes away).

Personally, I rather see the timing in all 6 cylinders rather than just one.

Agreed on that last part. I hope Terry and BMS do something eventually so we can monitor all 6 cylinders.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Thanks for explaining that.

I have stage 2 turbo w/ inlet and DV+, FMIC and CP, PTF protune. OEM LPFP, DP and exhaust. No JB4.

PTF protune on 91 octane was great, but dyno a bit disappointing at 340 WHP (see this thread). Had all sorts of trouble tuning for ethanol blends. Installed stage 2 LPFP but could not get rid of pesky warning lights, even after installing new oversized battery and consulting with Steve at Fuel-It, so uninstalled it. It was misfire city on E40 and E50 on OEM LPFP, hard limps and everything. Just finished E30 tune a few days ago and so far so good. Car feels really smooth. Even had some minor hiccups on E33, and Dzenno and I both concluded that E30 is the limit on my car. I'm at 20 PSI on E30, 19 PSI on 91 octane. Gonna drive it like this for a while and then repeat the dyno to see what kind of numbers I get. No way I get anything close to 500 though.

Thanks for the link and making that thread. I took a look at the pure stage 2 log and noticed the boost dropped off at redline. Did dzenno say why? I'm guessing its the 91 octane and the dme lowering boost. With E50 I'm guessing it would stay at 19 to redline. this is where the JB4 wins big time with an upgraded turbo, because we can't do E50 on flash but with JB4 our cars run great.

how does the boost curve look on e30? does it stay at 19 to redline?

I bet your car absolutely flies. I think with a DP you will see a huge difference. the difference is already huge with a stock turbo, with the bigger turbo and the amount of additional air it moves, i bet the difference is even larger. it's true there is added work due to smog, but it seems to be worth it!

as cancatchme mentioned, one really nice thing about the JB4 is how easy it is to set boost targets. from what i understand, the flash route is not this simple. plus with the JB4, it is very user friendly in terms of going in and making tweaks on your own, and switching maps.

on the stock turbo though, i believe my boost is better with flash only. going to try to verify today.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by houtan

It would be nice to see a flash only pure stage 2 log on pump gas, so hopefully someone can get their hands on one.

Here you go. This is on 91 octane pump gas, pure stage 2 turbo with inlet and DV+, FMIC + CP. PTF protune, no JB4. OEM DP and exhaust.

The log was taken on the dyno during final fine tuning of my 91 octane map with PTF. The dyno graph for this log can be viewed in the first post of this thread

http://datazap.me/u/drrobert/log-144...og=0&data=4-16

[houtan]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Here you go. This is on 91 octane pump gas, pure stage 2 turbo with inlet and DV+, FMIC + CP. PTF protune, no JB4. OEM DP and exhaust.

The log was taken on the dyno during final fine tuning of my 91 octane map with PTF. The dyno graph for this log can be viewed in the first post of this thread

http://datazap.me/u/drrobert/log-144...og=0&data=4-16

thanks robert. see my post right before this one, i had looked at the your logs and had a couple of questions for you when you get the time to answer.

i also grabbed some logs yesterday with the jb4 and today after removing my jb4.

i uploaded the comparison of my ptf v204 91 octane etune running flash only vs running v204 with the jb4 installed set to map 4. the v204 log is from a few months ago, the v204 test 3 is the log i took on december 13, 2015 (today), and is one day after the log with v204 running as the back end flash with JB4. running the tune as flash only is much better in both of the flash only logs.

cboost is almost 2 psi greater at 5500rpm (15.X vs 13.x) and the avg ignition (less than 1 vs 4.5) is much better on the flash only. not sure why, but for my car this particular tune is much stronger without the jb4 than with the jb4. Or maybe the tune is just not suited well for running in conjunction with the JB4.

the most interesting part is the 91 octane flash only logs seem to be stronger than my jb4 running the BMS BEF on either 91 or E50.

http://datazap.me/u/houtan/91-octane...log=0&data=1-8

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by houtan

Thanks for the link and making that thread. I took a look at the pure stage 2 log and noticed the boost dropped off at redline. Did dzenno say why? I'm guessing its the 91 octane and the dme lowering boost. With E50 I'm guessing it would stay at 19 to redline. this is where the JB4 wins big time with an upgraded turbo, because we can't do E50 on flash but with JB4 our cars run great.

how does the boost curve look on e30? does it stay at 19 to redline?

I bet your car absolutely flies. I think with a DP you will see a huge difference. the difference is already huge with a stock turbo, with the bigger turbo and the amount of additional air it moves, i bet the difference is even larger. it's true there is added work due to smog, but it seems to be worth it!

as cancatchme mentioned, one really nice thing about the JB4 is how easy it is to set boost targets. from what i understand, the flash route is not this simple. plus with the JB4, it is very user friendly in terms of going in and making tweaks on your own, and switching maps.

on the stock turbo though, i believe my boost is better with flash only. going to try to verify today.

Here you go houtan. This is the last log I took at the end of E30 tuning w/ Dzenno last week, he said it looked solid and no further tuning was done since then. Indeed it does hold boost to redline!

To answer your question, Dzenno did not say exactly why it did not hold boost on 91, but I can tell you he was very frustrated with my fueling at that point and said that was the best he could do (and that was after multiple rounds of tuning on the road and fine-tuning it on the dyno), so yes I think we can blame the boost dropping off at higher RPMs on the fuel, especially when you look at the E30 log by comparison. BTW, nothing else changed on my car between the 2 logs except the fuel and a new PTF protune. I'm taking it to the dyno this week to see what kind of numbers I get, will post the results in a new thread.

Robert

http://datazap.me/u/drrobert/e30-ptf...og=0&data=4-17

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by houtan

the most interesting part is the 91 octane flash only logs seem to be stronger than my jb4 running the BMS BEF on either 91 or E50.

Glad to hear that as I have no plans to get a JB4 any time soon!

[houtan]

That log looks solid! Looking forward to the results. If you wouldn't mind posting an update (just something short, like hey check out my e30 dyno results) in my ptf thread, I would appreciate it: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...6#post19061426

That way we can stop talking about flash and jb4 tunes in the pure inlet thread lol. Sorry for the tangent!

[CantCatchMe]

Again don't want to thread jack, but a buddy of mine had the JB4 non-ISO with meth and was literally neck and neck with me on my E50 protune. Now, he was pushing 17.5-18.5psi while I was pushing 22psi max. We were both FBO, so take it for what it was worth. If you have any more questions about it, PM me. I can go more in depth about how are logs looked and mods specifically.

Thread jack/end lol!

[Newguy123]

Originally Posted by CantCatchMe

Again don't want to thread jack, but a buddy of mine had the JB4 non-ISO with meth and was literally neck and neck with me on my E50 protune. Now, he was pushing 17.5-18.5psi while I was pushing 22psi max. We were both FBO, so take it for what it was worth. If you have any more questions about it, PM me. I can go more in depth about how are logs looked and mods specifically.

Thread jack/end lol!

i just recently talked with PTF and ended up buying a e30 tune from them. im actually running it as a BEF with my JB4. going to give it a few more days of driving and maybe another fill up before i post any comparisons. there are some differences in logs so far, nothing too major. id like to give the PTF tune just as much time to learn as the bms flash i was running but keep an eye out for a comparison thread between the two soon.

[kevBquick]

people think because they see 22psi they are making more power than the 18psi guy....there more factors in play that just psi. adv ign, timing, PWN, etc. efficiency range of the turbo and whether or not your truly making more power at 22psi lets say than me at 20psi. so a lot of factors. my first dyno trip i dropped 350awhp/451awtq (just peaked at 18psi for a second) that was jb4 map7 only. next was map6 my tune at 388awhp/482awtq (held 3-4 psi more than map7 through the curve 20psi target i belive i hit 20.9). both about e55ish. i'm just FBO with a maxed out PWN....still jb4. everyone picks their flavor and we get there slightly different and kind of end up at the same place.

[PURE135i]

Originally Posted by kevBquick

people think because they see 22psi they are making more power than the 18psi guy....there more factors in play that just psi. adv ign, timing, PWN, etc. efficiency range of the turbo and whether or not your truly making more power at 22psi lets say than me at 20psi. so a lot of factors. my first dyno trip i dropped 350awhp/451awtq (just peaked at 18psi for a second) that was jb4 map7 only. next was map6 my tune at 388awhp/482awtq (held 3-4 psi more than map7 through the curve 20psi target i belive i hit 20.9). both about e55ish. i'm just FBO with a maxed out PWN....still jb4. everyone picks their flavor and we get there slightly different and kind of end up at the same place.

Yeah that's very true. I've dyno'd more on map 7 then map 6 before when my map 6 targets were 1.5-3psi higher. Timing took a dump in the logs where map7 held steady/max to redline. For the most part though I log and log and log, 22psi is much faster then 19 or 20 on a stage 2 turbo the gains are pretty big per psi of boost. So as long as timing looks good there's no reason you shouldn't be making a lot more power with more boost.

[Newguy123]

any updates in here from anyone? its been pretty rainy all week here so no progress yet on tbi/ptf flash

[Anytyme]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Thanks for explaining that.

I have stage 2 turbo w/ inlet and DV+, FMIC and CP, PTF protune. OEM LPFP, DP and exhaust. No JB4.

PTF protune on 91 octane was great, but dyno a bit disappointing at 340 WHP (see this thread). Had all sorts of trouble tuning for ethanol blends. Installed stage 2 LPFP but could not get rid of pesky warning lights, even after installing new oversized battery and consulting with Steve at Fuel-It, so uninstalled it. It was misfire city on E40 and E50 on OEM LPFP, hard limps and everything. Just finished E30 tune a few days ago and so far so good. Car feels really smooth. Even had some minor hiccups on E33, and Dzenno and I both concluded that E30 is the limit on my car. I'm at 20 PSI on E30, 19 PSI on 91 octane. Gonna drive it like this for a while and then repeat the dyno to see what kind of numbers I get. No way I get anything close to 500 though.

Interesting, you definitely should be making more power must be the stock DP. I don't have all those problems at all. I only use JB4 and the BMS BEF i've only run into fueling problems right around 55 adder. Just ordered the PI kit so those problems will be history. My car runs as high as 26 psi currently.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by Anytyme

Interesting, you definitely should be making more power must be the stock DP. I don't have all those problems at all. I only use JB4 and the BMS BEF i've only run into fueling problems right around 55 adder. Just ordered the PI kit so those problems will be history. My car runs as high as 26 psi currently.

Well, its either the DP or the fuel, or both. Currently I'm working on tuning for higher octane fuel, which is taking WAY longer than anticipated due to a series of unexpected problems primarily related to misfires. I hope to be done with the E30 tune soon and will then likely try a different fuel blend.

I have mixed feelings about the DP. I recognize it as a bottleneck and would love to have the added exhaust flow, but I (unlike most others it seems) do not want my exhaust to get any louder. But that is probably a topic for another thread!

[Anytyme]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Well, its either the DP or the fuel, or both. Currently I'm working on tuning for higher octane fuel, which is taking WAY longer than anticipated due to a series of unexpected problems primarily related to misfires. I hope to be done with the E30 tune soon and will then likely try a different fuel blend.

I have mixed feelings about the DP. I recognize it as a bottleneck and would love to have the added exhaust flow, but I (unlike most others it seems) do not want my exhaust to get any louder. But that is probably a topic for another thread!

Your exhaust wont get that much louder if at all maybe a decibel or two

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by Anytyme

Your exhaust wont get that much louder if at all maybe a decibel or two

All the DP video clips I've seen on youtube sound horrible to me. I've already lost enough hearing as it is, and don't need to give my neighbors another reason to hate me. I haven't ruled out a catted DP with resonators, but have not been able to get any real sense of how much louder than stock that would be.

[trixdout]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

All the DP video clips I've seen on youtube sound horrible to me. I've already lost enough hearing as it is, and don't need to give my neighbors another reason to hate me. I haven't ruled out a catted DP with resonators, but have not been able to get any real sense of how much louder than stock that would be.

The resonated ar catless dp is a nice alternative. I am running it. Definitely better than a non-resonated one.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by trixdout

The resonated ar catless dp is a nice alternative. I am running it. Definitely better than a non-resonated one.

any sound clips?

[kevBquick]

i barely notice a difference between catless dp and stock dp. you won't be even close to waking up the dead or bothering neighbors. the motor is louder than the exhaust at WOT. you will be fine. and with the DP fix underway...you CALI problems will be over with too.

[AX75F92]

^^^ He's right. I just installed a DP on my N55 E90 and it sounds almost exactly as it did stock. If you have stock exhaust you'll be totally fine as far as sound output. PE would be a different story I'm sure.

[tkong]

I wouldn't call downpipes and stock exhaust "loud". But it's def noticeably louder than a fully stock system. cold starts are def loud, granted no where near as loud as downpipes and pe exhaust though lol

[Tricki]

Transformed the sound on my car!!

Bms downpipe and stock exhaust with PPK

https://instagram.com/p/_K0wNuvcUu/