[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by MisterF80M3

It was discontinued because it was lacking in sales.

Okay, and? I said just because it was discontinued doesn't mean the car wasn't good. The Giulia Quadrifoglio doesn't sell very well either but its a damn fantastic driving and feeling car, one of the best sport sedans on the market in years.

Originally Posted by MisterF80M3

Have you driven the M5c around the track? I took the M5c around Sonoma Raceway at an M event a few months ago. The M5c is very agile for its size. Does it drive better than an F80/G80 around the track? No, but it is more capable than other sedans in its class (GS-F, RS5, E63). The incredibly fast Nürburgring time shows what it is capable of.

Its been a while, but I drove an early F90 M5 on track some time back. Like I said, more capable and composed, yes, however feel and engagement are sorely lacking and the engine is not my favorite compared to the MB or Lexus competition. The car just feels numb in most settings. The problem is a car like an M5 isn't my first choice for a car I would track, and its limits on the street are far too high, and the car itself just lacks personality/theater.

I'm just not a fan of the new M5, F10 or F90. The GS-F has its flaws, but it also offers many features that aren't available in its competitors that help set it apart, and because of that I am excited for the IS500, which will offer many of those benefits in a smaller, lighter, and less expensive package.

[Humdizzle]

no doubt the M5c is a performer. its extremely capable around a track and on the road. i think on topgears track it ran the same time as a 991 RS. but i think some people, including myself, are burnt out with turbos and their power delivery. its just not as linear or instant as an NA engine.

NA engines will not sell well compared to their turbo rivals. just like manuals don't sell well compared to DCT/Autos. but a certain subset of enthusiasts still go for them even if they are slower.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Lexus and Soul have gone together in a few scenarios. The First IS300, GS-F, IS-F, and even the most recent LC are great examples. And the chassis of the current IS is actually pretty decent, not to mention their EPS is pretty good too. The engine is old but in the best of ways in that it encourages you to rev it out and sounds fantastic.

All those are boring cars. Only Lexus with soul is LFA. Maybe Supra but it's a BMW

[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Pretty sad a brand new Lexus competes with a decade old BMW.

Lol. Yeah, it's real sad.

[Equilibrandt]

Is that odd high-trunk brow + ducktail growing on anyone? Can't seem to figure out why I like it, but it's quite aesthetically pleasing.

Also odd that they don't allow a Red/Red color combo..?

[e92hunter]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Okay, and? I said just because it was discontinued doesn't mean the car wasn't good. The Giulia Quadrifoglio doesn't sell very well either but its a damn fantastic driving and feeling car, one of the best sport sedans on the market in years.


Its been a while, but I drove an early F90 M5 on track some time back. Like I said, more capable and composed, yes, however feel and engagement are sorely lacking and the engine is not my favorite compared to the MB or Lexus competition. The car just feels numb in most settings. The problem is a car like an M5 isn't my first choice for a car I would track, and its limits on the street are far too high, and the car itself just lacks personality/theater.

I'm just not a fan of the new M5, F10 or F90. The GS-F has its flaws, but it also offers many features that aren't available in its competitors that help set it apart, and because of that I am excited for the IS500, which will offer many of those benefits in a smaller, lighter, and less expensive package.

If you had an inclination for feel and theater, why did you get a CLS53? It doesn't even have a real AMG engine nor does it handle well or provide better feedback than an equivalent M550i or M850i.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by e92hunter

If you had an inclination for feel and theater, why did you get a CLS53? It doesn't even have a real AMG engine nor does it handle well or provide better feedback than an equivalent M550i or M850i.

Because the CLS is my daily, and I have my Z4 for feel and theater and a connection to the road, I did not and am not looking for full fledged M/AMG cars for my daily driver.

My previous car was a G30 540i which I inherited and found it to be incredibly dull. Poor handling and body control, numb and rubbery steering, as well as many electrical gremlins throughout my ownership. When the 540i was totaled, I rented an M550i (M850 Gran Coupe was not a thing when I got the CLS and costs $20k more) and found that while the engine was great, it still shared many of the same issues with the 540i dynamically.

I decided to give MB a chance as I saw the E43 won a comparison test and was a bit in disbelief. By then the E43 was replaced with the 53. Shockingly, the CLS 53 despite not having an AMG engine (which I didn't care about) surprised me in being more dynamic than most MB's I had driven before, and the engine is a gem thanks to the electric supercharger which gives it a more unique and almost naturally aspirated feel thanks to torque fill, and the steering felt more natural than BMW's rack. The CLS is not a sports car, nor was I ever claiming it to be, but I was bored of BMW's and wanted something new and different from what I had before, the CLS worked for the balance of sport and luxury that I was looking for.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

Is that odd high-trunk brow + ducktail growing on anyone? Can't seem to figure out why I like it, but it's quite aesthetically pleasing.

Also odd that they don't allow a Red/Red color combo..?

Attachment 2680180

Lexus has been going full on Bangle Butt recently with their cars, especially the ES which just looks awkward from behind. The new IS looks pretty good in person though. As for red on red, that may be a bit too much, I can see why they decided against it.

[e92hunter]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Because the CLS is my daily, and I have my Z4 for feel and theater and a connection to the road, I did not and am not looking for full fledged M/AMG cars for my daily driver.

My previous car was a G30 540i which I inherited and found it to be incredibly dull. Poor handling and body control, numb and rubbery steering, as well as many electrical gremlins throughout my ownership. When the 540i was totaled, I rented an M550i (M850 Gran Coupe was not a thing when I got the CLS and costs $20k more) and found that while the engine was great, it still shared many of the same issues with the 540i dynamically.

I decided to give MB a chance as I saw the E43 won a comparison test and was a bit in disbelief. By then the E43 was replaced with the 53. Shockingly, the CLS 53 despite not having an AMG engine (which I didn't care about) surprised me in being more dynamic than most MB's I had driven before, and the engine is a gem thanks to the electric supercharger which gives it a more unique and almost naturally aspirated feel thanks to torque fill, and the steering felt more natural than BMW's rack. The CLS is not a sports car, nor was I ever claiming it to be, but I was bored of BMW's and wanted something new and different from what I had before, the CLS worked for the balance of sport and luxury that I was looking for.

E53 Coupe I drove was boring with sloppy handling, felt like a normal E-Class. I assumed the CLS would be similar but if you thought it drove better than an M550i, I will give you the benefit of doubt. I disregarded the CLS because it weighs more than the G30 M550i with a V8TT and reviewers seem to lambast it. Although if I were to get an inline 6 engine, going with a B58/S58 seems infinitely better (especially aftermarket).

[Sublime00]

Savage Geese review

[stein_325i]

Looks like $61,000 starting price, curious to see what options are available.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Looks like $61,000 starting price, curious to see what options are available.

According to Redline Reviews it's $56,500 to start and $67k for the Launch Edition.

[ntg44]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Looks like $61,000 starting price, curious to see what options are available.

That's a hard pill to swallow if true. I was hoping mid 50s with a fully loaded car at like... 62k. 61K start is too close to M3 money.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

According to Redline Reviews it's $56,500 to start and $67k for the Launch Edition.

Okay, looks like Motor1 was quoting how their car was optioned, $56,500 is correct. Seems like a pretty good value considered it will be the only compact V8 sedan, and a reliable one at that too.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by ntg44

That's a hard pill to swallow if true. I was hoping mid 50s with a fully loaded car at like... 62k. 61K start is too close to M3 money.

But... buckteeth

56.5 starting price in the US sounds exactly where they need to be, slight bit more than a 340i and C43

[EDWYER]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Good luck finding something in the class lighter than 3800lbs. Cars have gotten fat.

So much for that. Shame what a porker.

From MT:
CURB WEIGHT (F/R DIST) 3,980 lb (54/46%)

[ntg44]

Originally Posted by kyriian

But... buckteeth

Yeah, you're right on that one. It's more of a case of I'd buy neither than one over the other. The value proposition still needs to be there for me, and while 5-6k on a 60k car probably isn't a deal breaker, it's the difference between me getting in the door to the dealership vs. moving on. The NA V8 only takes it so far.

After I bought my 17 M3, something changed in me that I don't want to spend 50k+ on cars anymore. I used to get into something new every 3-4 years but I'm over it. This V8 Lexus stands out among the rest, but it needs to be the right price for me. Mid 60s before tax ain't it.

[jmack]

That's a pretty hard sell over a M340i at that price. You're trading off a lot of tech and dynamics just for V8 sound.

[wtwo3]

I think the pricing is not surprising at all, and I don't find it to be expensive for what it's offering. $55k is a loaded IS350, so I'm a little surprised that people are expecting this to be less.

I'll have to test drive one - but ultimately it's going to depend on what you're looking for. All out performance (m340i) or tons of character (IS500). I agree it's hard to pick this over an m340i for everything the m340i offers. But that sweet song of the V8 is definitely a strong pull (as well as that gorgeous exterior). Would have been a lot stronger of a case if Lexus would just update the interior and tech.

[Equilibrandt]

TLDR from the Savage Geese video:

"They're adding the V8, they're giving you a little more power... but this is not supposed to be an M3 competitor. If you're expecting that, you're going to be highly disappointed."

Same price point as an F80 once the market cools a bit, will be a hard sell, especially with the auto vs the DCT.

That bit in the vid about the trans cooler and being able to pull an oil cooler from an RC-F was interesting.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

TLDR from the Savage Geese video:

"They're adding the V8, they're giving you a little more power... but this is not supposed to be an M3 competitor. If you're expecting that, you're going to be highly disappointed."

Same price point as an F80 once the market cools a bit, will be a hard sell, especially with the auto vs the DCT.

I doubt many people will be cross shopping this against a used F80.

[Humdizzle]

i've seen quite a few people disappointed in the F80 and jump back to the E92 v8. Or go GT350. Even though both are much slower than a tuned f80. so an is500 makes sense for them if they want more luxury and something newer.

but you're right those people are very few.