[NFS]

Originally Posted by tctic

Well said. I knew this DSC/DTC debate kick in a thread like this as I said in the first few posts of this thread. The terminology and naming ceases to matter as long as you know what each mode is for and what the electronics are doing. Therefore, when I say something about DSC/DTC modes, I always add a few more words to clarify the state at which the electronics are working at. It just seems that there will someone out there who are confused about the terminology.

I agree ...

All you need to know is that there are three 'modes'

1. DSC - Everything on

2. DTC - some safety stuff restricted to allow some wheelsping for low traction situations

3. Everything off.

If BMW just called it 'DSC On', 'Restricted DSC' and 'DSC off' it would save a lot of confusion

[Norsk]

Dear needforspeed,

Although I admire all the complex elaboration above; you're still trying to tell us that you are activating DTC and it's a different version & what not...

Since, I knew you still would try to contorsion this some other way... here it goes one more time:

Dynamic Stability Control (DSC)

Dynamic Stability Control is an innovative technology that combines the functions of traction control (DTC), braking enhancement, and cornering stabilization. DSC sensors continually monitor cornering-steering angle, transverse acceleration, yaw, wheel speed and brake pressure to instantly detect and correct loss of wheel traction due to slick spots, nasty weather, or emergency maneuvers. DSC helps you stay in control under all conditions, in any situation.

Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) not only optimises driving stability when starting or accelerating, it also improves traction. In addition, the system recognises unstable driving conditions such as under - or oversteering and helps to maintain a safe course for the vehicle.
Advanced sensory technology monitors the wheel rotation speed, lateral acceleration and the yaw rate (rotation around the vertical axis). This data is processed to obtain information about the automobile as it is currently moving, and is compared with data about how it should be currently moving, as supplied by the accelerator and the angle of the steering wheel.
If these two lists of data do not match and the automobiles stability is threatened, DSC is activated and influences the brake system or the engine management. This action helps prevent dangerous situations such as skidding.

DSC optimises directional stability within certain boundaries.

When you press the DTC button it disables some of the monitoring functions auto activated interventions of full DSC (things that are in Bold) and leaves over some does not use the features that

Dynamic Traction Control (DTC).

Compared to Dynamic Stability Control (DSC), Dynamic Traction Control (DTC) provides rear wheel vehicles with greater propulsion. This is ideal for straight stretches of road, and for maximum power when driving in snow or sleet. In the 3 series and Z4 Roadster, DTC also plays a role when on bends - it enhances the car's propulsion and its sports-style qualities*. The driver is in full control of their vehicle within a predetermined parameter: the regulatory functions are inactive.

*They use this to compensate as a way more or less the Lack of an LSD for the average Joe.

So speaking of Windows; and different versions (98, 2000, NT, XP and Vista). they are not different version in that sense. Microsoft would run Win 98, NT, 2000 run on DOS and XP, .Net, Win 2003 Server, and Vista no longer depend on DOS to run but they still use some of the features of DOS when running.

BMW has improved DTC and has integrated it as part of DSC; so when you press the lovely button on your dash; thechnically they are telling you that the car's computer is no longer monitoring all those items in PINK and will not attempt at making any stability or directional corrections. The only thing that it is doing is helping out with Traction of the driven wheel.

Since you like Windows comparison, think of it like this:

DSC: Standard User
DTC: Power User
All Off: Administrator / Safe Mode Log-on

[Norsk]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

I agree ...

All you need to know is that there are three 'modes'

1. DSC - Everything on

2. DTC - some safety stuff restricted to allow some wheelspin for low traction situations
or
Spirited driving


3. Everything off.

Originally Posted by needforspeed

If BMW just called it 'DSC On', 'Restricted DSC' and 'DSC off' it would save a lot of confusion

Sorry no good!

Restricted DSC would be inaccurate, as it would lead the driver to believe the there is some form of Stability Control left & for logical and legal reasons... that's a big No No!

You are using features that can be construed as a DSC being restricted, but for clarity this would not be good and that is the way they had it on the E46 and it pissed me and other people off like there was not tomorrow trying to what the true status of the F'ing was.

Now it's clear! Just for those that can't seem to read written Text properly

DSC: When you turn the car on, DSC is there for the Average Joe or Jane or for those days when you just don't feel like playing around

DTC: : Hey dude, only Traction Control is on; so be aware or be awake ... because if you are driving in a spirited manner, better be good with your car control (counter steering, Brake/Gas balance).



DTC was active ; let me know if you feel or sense any "Yaw Control" above 60Km/h as I was going. I also tried it on the E90 335i on nice and very Wet surface in the fall + on Snow and Ice this winter.

Try it on a wet day, with a curved on ramp and let us know how "Yaw Control" stopped your tail from kissing the guard rail


All Off: :rocks:

P.S.: Yes I do have some special access ; read between the lines

[carjon]

Originally Posted by BK

This one is well documented in the manual and here, but for anyone who has seen another E90 on the road signal right, then left, then right again, it is because they don't know how to cancel the turn signals.

To cancel the turn signal, you don't push it the opposite direction. You push it slightly (not beyond the resistance point) in the same direction as the blinking side.

The blinkers are intuitive once you get used to them and now I don't like driving cars with "normal" blinkers.

Glad they are intuitive to you - after 10 months I still do it wrong 50% of the time. As far as I'm concerned this is an improvement that no one needed.

[selwynf]

Originally Posted by txusa03

For those without CA, you can still drive without the key fob inserted in the slot.

what?!

[Whispre]

Originally Posted by Norsk

Dear needforspeed,



So speaking of Windows; and different versions (98, 2000, NT, XP and Vista). they are not different version in that sense. Microsoft would run Win 98, NT, 2000 run on DOS and XP, .Net, Win 2003 Server, and Vista no longer depend on DOS to run but they still use some of the features of DOS when running.

Just wanted to say that NT and Win2000 do NOT run on DOS, (Dos can't natively run from an NTFS file system anyway) and in fact DOS does not actually exist within the NT(3.5/3.51/4.0), Win2k, Win2003, XP, or Vista operating systems. They have a Command Prompt, however this is just a front end DOS Emulator, not actual DOS used for scripting and backwards compatibility. Windows 98SE was the last version of windows to "run on DOS".

That aside, I agree 100% with the rest of what you wrote about DSC and DTS, that is exactly how I understood them.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by Norsk

Dear needforspeed,

Since, I knew you still would try to contorsion this some other way... here it goes one more time:

Dynamic Stability Control (DSC)

Dynamic Stability Control is an innovative technology that combines the functions of traction control (DTC), braking enhancement, and cornering stabilization. DSC sensors continually monitor [B]

I'm regretting being this pedantic but this is what I think you have slightly wrong ....

This is the actually text from the BMW website:

"Dynamic Stability Control is an innovative technology that combines the functions of traction control, braking enhancement, and cornering stabilization. DSC sensors continually monitor cornering-steering angle, transverse acceleration, yaw, wheel speed and brake pressure to instantly detect and correct loss of wheel traction due to slick spots, nasty weather, or emergency maneuvers. DSC helps you stay in control under all conditions, in any situation."

In your version YOU have added (DTC) in brackets after the words 'traction control'. This is extremely naughty !

You seem to be assuming that 'DTC' is the traction control element of DSC+.

This is not the case and it's not what it says in the manual or on the BMW innovation guide.

We would need a BMW engineer to tell us how EXACTLY it works.

However, you can demonstrate to yourself that DTC on is NOT equivalent to 'only traction control on'.

You still have brake drying, hill start assist, emergency brake assist, brake priming etc. ALL of which are functions of DSC+.

The manual says this VERY clearly:

"Dynamic Traction Control is a version of DSC optimized for particular road conditions. It allows for a further slippage of the wheels, without totally giving up the stability control feature."

Without giving up the stability control feature - i.e. DSC is restricted NOT turned off.

You need to rewind to the assumption that DTC is just the traction control. This assumption contradicts the innovation guide and the manual ... hence it is almost certainly wrong.

DTC: : Hey dude, only Traction Control is on; so be aware or be awake ... because if you are driving in a spirited manner, better be good with your car control (counter steering, Brake/Gas balance).

Traction control is only relevant at lower speeds - getting off the line - yet in DTC the system will still activate on bends when the rear steps out ... this is because you still have some yaw control etc ... it's just that the safety systems are stepped back to enable increased wheelspin.

[Snowman811]

This thread of "Things You Didn't Know..." is being highjacked by the old DTC/DSC discussion. Can we try to refocus the thread on the "Things You Didn't know about the 3 series", rather than discussing DSC/DTC please?

[NFS]

Originally Posted by Snowman811

This thread of "Things You Didn't Know..." is being highjacked by the old DTC/DSC discussion. Can we try to refocus the thread on the "Things You Didn't know about the 3 series", rather than discussing DSC/DTC please?

Sorry - I agree - Norsk and I have got way off beam - we need to continue this elsewhere ... or better yet not at all ...

[Josh49]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

Sorry - I agree - Norsk and I have got way off beam - we need to continue this elsewhere ... or better yet not at all ...

I'd go with the later. I don't understand the point of beating it to death anymore. What does it accomplish? Just meet up in person, whip them out, see who is bigger, and get on with your lives.. Other than that this argument is not going to change a thing, and is just taking away from this thread..

Back to the topic:
I think the MP3 functionality is awesome. Now that I have it figured out I have reduced my entire cd collection to less than 10 cd's. Each cd now holds 11 other cd's on average. Before I used to change cd's often on a trip, now I don't need to at all. It's really nice.. I'm debating whether or not to renew the sat subscription when the time comes..

[NFS]

Originally Posted by Josh49

Back to the topic:
I think the MP3 functionality is awesome. Now that I have it figured out I have reduced my entire cd collection to less than 10 cd's. Each cd now holds 11 other cd's on average. Before I used to change cd's often on a trip, now I don't need to at all. It's really nice.. I'm debating whether or not to renew the sat subscription when the time comes..

I totally agree. I just did my first MP3 cd and squeezed on 10 albums with no problems at all.

Sort of makes a cd changer obselete.

[canucklion]

amen, Josh
if any of you want to pummel this dead horse, go visit the other 1,000 DSC/DTC threads available already, and no, I don't care if you have 'special access' to BMW literatures, let it rest

Originally Posted by Josh49

I'd go with the later. I don't understand the point of beating it to death anymore. What does it accomplish? Just meet up in person, whip them out, see who is bigger, and get on with your lives.. Other than that this argument is not going to change a thing, and is just taking away from this thread..

Back to the topic:
I think the MP3 functionality is awesome. Now that I have it figured out I have reduced my entire cd collection to less than 10 cd's. Each cd now holds 11 other cd's on average. Before I used to change cd's often on a trip, now I don't need to at all. It's really nice.. I'm debating whether or not to renew the sat subscription when the time comes..

[canucklion]

on topic: the handles on the roof, I didn't know after it's been pulled, when it's retracting back to its position, it doesn't make a 'thump' noise when hitting the roof, it's dead silent

I didn't know this untill Picus told me so, it's not a big deal nor a feature per se, but it's the attention to detail that impresses me

[Norsk]

Originally Posted by Whispre

Just wanted to say that NT and Win2000 do NOT run on DOS, (Dos can't natively run from an NTFS file system anyway) and in fact DOS does not actually exist within the NT(3.5/3.51/4.0), Win2k, Win2003, XP, or Vista operating systems. They have a Command Prompt, however this is just a front end DOS Emulator, not actual DOS used for scripting and backwards compatibility. Windows 98SE was the last version of windows to "run on DOS".

That aside, I agree 100% with the rest of what you wrote about DSC and DTS, that is exactly how I understood them.

True Win95, 98, 98SE were the last to run on DOS + FAT32 files system ... just got carried away too fast in the cut paste & editing

+1

[ScheerSpeed]

some poeple just dont get it.....

[SoYank]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

I totally agree. I just did my first MP3 cd and squeezed on 10 albums with no problems at all.

Sort of makes a cd changer obselete.

But can you use the MP3 cd's in the cd changer?

[SoYank]

Originally Posted by canucklion

on topic: the handles on the roof, I didn't know after it's been pulled, when it's retracting back to its position, it doesn't make a 'thump' noise when hitting the roof, it's dead silent

I didn't know this untill Picus told me so, it's not a big deal nor a feature per se, but it's the attention to detail that impresses me

What handles on the roof?

[Norsk]

Originally Posted by SoYank

But can you use the MP3 cd's in the cd changer?

Yes sir , I've got 6 of them in there :rocks:
+
While the CD is playing, press on the on the button under "LIST" and you will get all your track names instead of track number.

[SoYank]

Originally Posted by Norsk

Yes sir , I've got 6 of them in there :rocks:
+
While the CD is playing, press on the on the button under "LIST" and you will get all your track names instead of track number.

Wow, better than the radio. You can drive across the country and never hear the same song twice.

[billgti]

Originally Posted by SoYank

What handles on the roof?

i think he's referring to the overhead grab handles inside the car. the way they retract is nothing new though. i would be surprised if any new car above $20k didn't have this feature. even my roommate's civic has it.

[trick50]

Originally Posted by audiphile

by default: DTC AND DSC are on - they compliment eachother, traction control and stability control.
1 press - turn DSC off, DTC remains on (stability off, traction on)
1 press and hold for 5 seconds - both DTC and DSC are off (stability and traction off)

+1

CASE CLOSED...CAN WE PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS NOW

audiphile is right...

Thank you

[canucklion]

try it on a G35, or a Jeep Grand Cherokee, and let me know how it goes

Originally Posted by billgti

i think he's referring to the overhead grab handles inside the car. the way they retract is nothing new though. i would be surprised if any new car above $20k didn't have this feature. even my roommate's civic has it.