[Adam Way]

ALCON,

I am regretting my last post for lack of content and possible misinterpretation. Didn't think it through completely before sending it through.

To provide some additional insight, here is some information that I think people following this thread will find helpful. Upon finding out that my rear turbo ate something and therefore had an oil contamination failure, I received top notch help from several people involved in this issue. To draw a parallel to another more basic situation. If I bought a tire from a well known tire manufacturer and ran into a curb with high performance tire and then it failed, I would highly doubt that the manufacturer would replace the part. In this case it is unknown how something foreign got into my turbo. It could have happened in manufacturing, shipping, unpacking, installing, or when it was on the vehicle itself. Who knows and at this point it is irrelevant. What I do know is that my mechanic worked his butt off to get the parts off as quickly as possible. He even shipped them on my behalf overnight. When Rob received them he stayed up till 3 a.m. and in less than a day overnighted them back. Most of us know that Rob has a job in addition to his turbo business and that in his turbos he does not have much mark up. Rob replaced, rebuilt, cleaned, etc. the turbos and zero cost to me. It is quite possible that he replaced all of this for a problem that wasn't even something he controlled. All this being said, it was Rob that graciously offfered this service. I believe many manufacturers would have at least charged for the parts... What makes the above even more impressive is that Rob did all of this after returning from a funeral the day prior. To do this at a time when you lose someone close to you and to receive a post like I displayed was incredibly insensitive. Although I didn't have intent, I now realize how this could have been precieved to third parties reading this. Part of the reason I had so much cost involved on the turbos was that all sorts of diagnostics were done to rule out many other things. Parts were ordered to "unwind" my OCC "upgrade", compression tests were done, etc. etc. So insinuating that $3K to get back on the road, doesn't accurately reflect the whole story.

Like BMW135 said, we all share a common goal here to have excellent parts, excellent service in a common goal of increasing horsepower/fun.

I think that when you have people like Rob that are committed to excellence and will bend over backwards to help folks and warrantee things they probably should not, that these are the types of people that as a forum we should support. My fear as the starter of this thread is that I may have (more than likely did) hurt Rob's business. This was in no way my intent. I do not regret my purchase and when you have vehicles as modified as the various ones that I own, you are bound to run into issues from time to time. With a team of experts to support and assist me, it makes this process relatively painless on me all things considered.

A big thank you to my mechanic Mike and to Rob at RB.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by turkish335

nice running into you yesterday! was on my way to a work function down by the harbourfront.

Anyways - I knew it was you because I noticed a small amount of smoke when you were idling at the light and recognized your rims..... the CF trunk looks great!

Anyways, the smoke was noticeable in little puffs but not a cloud or anything and it wasn't specifically a blue color, just more of a "sooty" type puff if that makes sense. Similar to John's car but not as bad as I thought it would be by reading some of your earlier posts. Car looks great man, hope you guys resolve this smoking problem soon.

that was a surprise seeing you there, didn't know you worked downtown...ya I noticed that smoke as well, you actually got to see the worst of it as the car wasn't warmed up fully still and it was a low throttle situation as I just got the car to move after saying hi hopefully its resolved soon, it sure does smoke still but from what I've seen with mobil1 its not as bad...

ultimateracing335i called me yesterday and said that at his recent service the tech put in 5w-40 oil and the car started to smoke a lot more so he was going to change it out for 5w-30 as that's what he used to run and didn't smoke as much...waiting to hear back from him

all this points more and more at an issue with draining as when hot the 40 weight oil is thicker and drains slower than the 30 weight oil..

the oil indicator hasn't moved yet and I've got about 350km since the oil change now...if it gets to 1,000km and doesn't move it'll be a sure sign that this is related

[badass335]

Very nicely written. I don't think this affects the business end for Rob much as people who want to buy it, will anyways. I'm glad things got worked out for you and Rob is standing behind you and his product.

Having said that, this smoking issue others are having needs to be figured out. Different oils, CC etc all sound like band-aid solutions.

I'm not saying that the turbo is at fault but if I upgrade my turbos, I'd like to maintain the stock feel and look which includes no smoke. Work it out, tell me that I need to spend another $1000 to prepare forthe turbo upgrade, I'm great with that and all is well.
I'd have an issue with spending $3000-$4000 and then 'try' things to remedy why I'm smoking etc.
I believe there is enough people out that with these turbos to get a baseline of what is needed to get these running smoothly. LM is thrashing his setup and no issues and a few others can't run more than 14psi without smoking? what else has he done to his car possible that is helping his situation.

[badass335]

Originally Posted by dzenno

all this points more and more at an issue with draining as when hot the 40 weight oil is thicker and drains slower than the 30 weight oil..

the oil indicator hasn't moved yet and I've got about 350km since the oil change now...if it gets to 1,000km and doesn't move it'll be a sure sign that this is related

I don't know if that's true. That would mean it's a draining issue with some vehicles only? There are setups running the same hardware, oil feed lines, oil drain lines and no issues. I'd figure if it were an oil feed/ drain line issue, it would be an issue with every upgrade which is not the case. It seems the different oil weights mask the issue better.

[vasillalov]

A wild stab in the dark: could this be a problem with a bad seals on a particular valve?

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by badass335

I don't know if that's true. That would mean it's a draining issue with some vehicles only? There are setups running the same hardware, oil feed lines, oil drain lines and no issues. I'd figure if it were an oil feed/ drain line issue, it would be an issue with every upgrade which is not the case. It seems the different oil weights mask the issue better.

sure, question is "why" does a thinner oil seem to help? what else can it be other than faster draining? other cars that don't have as much smoke or don't notice it are also running stock oil, not mobil1 0w-40 afaik...

Originally Posted by vasillalov

A wild stab in the dark: could this be a problem with a bad seals on a particular valve?

it could be but how's a thinner oil seemingly mitigating it...

i just did about 30-40 pulls tonight up to 18-19psi on pump gas and meth...car is TONS of fun for sure, actually sickeningly fast and for that I'm thankful I got the RBs, so thank you Rob!...haven't noticed much smoke either...i've got about 50-60 runs on the setup in 550km now and oil still is at max and hasn't moved...go Castrol! lol

[vasillalov]

Alright,

So here is some additional information that I think it will pertain a bit to this thread:

I tried to identify when smoke comes out of my left exhaust. It turns out, it is ONLY during idle and it does not happen every time.

WOT -> no smoke
Cruize -> no smoke
Lift off after WOT -> no smoke
Idle -> some times there is smoke, some times there is not any.

Also, if I let the car idle for 3-4 minutes, and sit and watch the exhaust, the smoke will start coming out all of a sudden, as if you turned on the switch on some sort of a mechanism. It makes me think that something happens around the engine and smoke starts to come on...

BTW, my car has stock turbos with full catless exhaust and stock PCV system.

[dzenno]

My update: 800km and oil is STILL at the max and hasn't budged...this is starting to look really really prminsing oil consumption wise but I dint want to jinx it so I'll hold out until it hits 2000km as by that time on mobil1 0w-40 it'd already be way overdue for an extra 1L...And ive got about 80-90 hard pulls in there as well from down low all the way to Redline 18 psi midrange to 14-15psi up top..

Smoke wise still a big improvement as well...still a puff like in vasillalov's description above but not "bad"...

Go Castrol Edge with "TITANIUM" LOL

[scottp999]

dzenno - thanks for the update. I appreciate you pushing your car hard. I think I might do that may WOT pulls in 12 months

Adam Way - Great follow up post. Appreciate all the detail.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by scottp999

dzenno - thanks for the update. I appreciate you pushing your car hard. I think I might do that may WOT pulls in 12 months

Adam Way - Great follow up post. Appreciate all the detail.

Trust me once you taste meth and 15-17psi on RBs and start to "dial" things in you'll see how pulls add up

[CSL335i]

Here is my experiences (on stock turbos) vs oils.
My mods in the past: Okada coils, custom made IC and piping, custom made DCIs, Motul 300W 5V-40, Procede v5, 16PSI, custom made exhaust system (fully cattles), BMW Performance water radiator.

After 25k km, my stock turbos have started to eat oil, which ment slightly blue smoke and almost 1L oil per 8K km.
We changed our stock turbo to a custom made stage 1 turbo (turbine wheel clipped, ceramic coated, and other few minor modification) and put 100 cell sport cats on the exhaust systems as well. Turbo related oil smoke completly dissappeared, I am still using Motul 300W 5V-40. I have still max oil line at 8k km since last oil change (my oil change intervall 10K km).

We took a look at the stock turbos, and the oil leakage came from the oil seals and from the shafts at CHRA.

Conclusion:
- when using stock turbos (with the limitation of the turbine house and exhaust manifolds and other stuff) with higher boost and have less backpressure due to cattles, our turbos have to work much harder and spining more, that is why my stock turbos started to eat oil.

- Motul 300W 5V-40 is still a very good oil

- with Okada coils, i never have any misfiring (on stock turbos and stage 1 turbos)

We are also working on upgrade turbo kits (completly new desing, not hybrid one based on the stock turbos limitations) and later some engine modifications.

I will let you know the results, once we finished them.

Laszlo

[dzenno]

1000km since the oil change from 0w-40 to 5w-30 and oil level is STILL AT MAX! There's a tiny bit of smoke but noticeable only maybe 2% of the time, totally bearable and at this point, if it stays this way, not even worth mentioning anymore...i really have my hopes up

[scottp999]

Originally Posted by dzenno

1000km since the oil change from 0w-40 to 5w-30 and oil level is STILL AT MAX! There's a tiny bit of smoke but noticeable only maybe 2% of the time, totally bearable and at this point, if it stays this way, not even worth mentioning anymore...i really have my hopes up

Sounds great. Thanks for the update. Now I just need my RB's and some new oil. I'm currently on 0w-40.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by dzenno

1000km since the oil change from 0w-40 to 5w-30 and oil level is STILL AT MAX! There's a tiny bit of smoke but noticeable only maybe 2% of the time, totally bearable and at this point, if it stays this way, not even worth mentioning anymore...i really have my hopes up

Dzenno,

So basically, you switched to BMW OEM oil and the consumption went away? That's very good!

I wonder where is TurkeyBaster now with his love for "exotic" oils?...

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Dzenno,

So basically, you switched to BMW OEM oil and the consumption went away? That's very good!

I wonder where is TurkeyBaster now with his love for "exotic" oils?...

Not literally OEM but OEM-like...Its Castrol Edge (gold bottle with Titanium lol) 5w-30 synthetic...its the latest and greatest castrol synthetic...

[cotmfk]

Awesome!

[jpirelli]

TL;DR. So what's the consensus on the RB's?

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by jpirelli

TL;DR. So what's the consensus on the RB's?

I'm at 1300km now after the oil change, numerous 18 down to 16psi pulls, oil consumption is still at max...by this time it would've been about 3/4 down on the oil level scale with mobil1 0w-40 that I used to run...waiting on 2500km to make a call on it but I'm fairly confident given the current situation that the car will hit that without losing oil even with average 5 to 10 3rd gear pulls daily that i do to/from work and around the city...

If this indeed ends up holding up as it has so far I'll be happy to say that I have no major issues with the car and/or RBs...one minor issue is 2% of the time, on throttle lift there will be a puff of smoke out of exhaust (according to others that see it driving behind me) but I'm more than fine with that as the car's a total BLAST to drive

[Syndicategt]

^ Glad to hear man! My RB's go on in a few days, I'm debating wether to switch to the oil you use now or stick with the OEM stuff. Might stay OEM unless I see a smoke issue.

[dzenno]

Don't fix if it ain't broke

[Syndicategt]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Don't fix if it ain't broke

Same reason I denied my HPFP recall.

[Rob@RBTurbo]

I'd too recommend running whatever the engine has always seen.