[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

You love the dehumanizing language, eh?

Vampire, Q-tee....what's the difference?

[Fly320s]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

There's no expectation of privacy outside of your front door. Curtilage laws apply in some cases, but cops typically use the "mailman rule/principle." If the mailman can access it, it's reasonable to believe - and the courts affirm - that you, as the homeowner, have no expectation of privacy in that/those areas.

An expectation of privacy is not the same idea as private property. There are many laws that apply "in public" that do not apply to "private property." You've mentioned at least one example when discussing driving a car on private property; the motor vehicle code does not apply, even if I'm doing it in my front yard for all the world to see.

I can carry a concealed gun on my body on private property and I may not be able to do that on public property.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

No dillweed! Name alone doesn't make you guilty. If a person's name and DOB match, then we're onto something. I will then pull them up in Cal-Photo to verify. If they've never been issued a California ID/DL, then they're going to the house to get printed.

You recite the book very well... when it suits you. Otherwise you get awful close to 'stop & frisk', that discredited tactic.
I asked them to run my age & address, but you know, they could do that in the precinct....

[Buug959]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

What does the NRA say about fixing that mess up?

They haven't got much to say up here.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Vampire, Q-tee....what's the difference?

Who ate babies?

Wait: "dillweed"?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

You recite the book very well... when it suits you. Otherwise you get awful close to 'stop & frisk', that discredited tactic.

I know the book very well. It's my craft! It always suits me.

Originally Posted by Fly320s

An expectation of privacy is not the same idea as private property. There are many laws that apply "in public" that do not apply to "private property." You've mentioned at least one example when discussing driving a car on private property; the motor vehicle code does not apply, even if I'm doing it in my front yard for all the world to see.

I can carry a concealed gun on my body on private property and I may not be able to do that on public property.

There's nuance for sure. It all depends on articulation, the circumstances and other legal standing.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Who ate babies?

Chrissy Teagen!

[rebekahb]

Well, just to shake things up a little. You can buy liquor, beer, or wine in the gas station (I actually used to buy my liquor at one because they had the best prices in the city) or grocery store. You can buy liquor, beer, or wine 24/7 365. You can drive through the daiquiri shop and buy drinks as long as you don't put the straw in. You can leave restaurants and bars with geaux cups. We may be screwed up in a lot of other ways but in NOLA you will never go thirsty

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Not so fast....

I don't see a date on that, and our DA has made exceptions for human behavior.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by rebekahb

Well, just to shake things up a little. You can buy liquor, beer, or wine in the gas station (I actually used to buy my liquor at one because they had the best prices in the city) or grocery store. You can buy liquor, beer, or wine 24/7 365. You can drive through the daiquiri shop and buy drinks as long as you don't put the straw in. You can leave restaurants and bars with geaux cups. We may be screwed up in a lot of other ways but in NOLA you will never go thirsty

That's some loose law for sure. Lol!

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

I don't see a date on that, and our DA has made exceptions for human behavior.

The DA's exception doesn't change the law. Our L.A. County D.A. makes a lot of exceptions for criminal behavior or violations of law too, but just because he won't prosecute doesn't render the action lawful.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

I wasn’t sure where to put this but your post is a perfect segue. Did anyone watch 102 minutes that changed America? It was on the history channel yesterday. It detailed Sept 11 from when the first plane hit. They interviewed people that got out of the towers. With blow by blow accounts. Then there was video footage of people on the street as it was unfolding including first responders Chilling! My intention is not to make this political. So many gave their lives running in when everyone was running out. I can’t believe it will be 20 years soon. How far we have come from LEO being heroes. It’s sad. We need heroes.

Thanks Lucy.

My wife was 2 blocks away, driven into her office by the dust. She is on the health list.
I was on a D train on the Manhattan Bridge when the second plane hit. I saw the fuel burn down the side of the building. I had to walk from World Wide Plaza (48th&8th) to Brklyn, wondering where the next plane would crash.
There were people I knew in the buildings. People who did their best to make our system work.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

The DA's exception doesn't change the law. Our L.A. County D.A. makes a lot of exceptions for criminal behavior or violations of law too, but just because he won't prosecute doesn't render the action lawful.

But who then cares?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

But who then cares?

The point is you were wrong. Furthermore, an officer in New York could still effectively detain (...and uncover other issues concerning that person). Like I stated earlier, we are looking for more.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Thanks Lucy.

My wife was 2 blocks away, driven into her office by the dust. She is on the health list.
I was on a D train on the Manhattan Bridge when the second plane hit. I saw the fuel burn down the side of the building. I had to walk from World Wide Plaza (48th&8th) to Brklyn, wondering where the next plane would crash.
There were people I knew in the buildings. People who did their best to make our system work.

Are you implying she's dumb with the "Lucy" reference?!? And you wonder why we talk to you the way we do.....

[Buug959]

Originally Posted by rebekahb

Well, just to shake things up a little. You can buy liquor, beer, or wine in the gas station (I actually used to buy my liquor at one because they had the best prices in the city) or grocery store. You can buy liquor, beer, or wine 24/7 365. You can drive through the daiquiri shop and buy drinks as long as you don't put the straw in. You can leave restaurants and bars with geaux cups. We may be screwed up in a lot of other ways but in NOLA you will never go thirsty

We can only purchase alcohol in gov't stores and a few select gov't licensed convenience stores way out in the boonies and it has to be transported beyond the reach of the driver meaning in the trunk, hatch or in the box of a pick-up truck. We can't take any booze out of a restaurant or drink while walking down a sidewalk. It's so nice to travel somewhere where you can have a sociable drink while strolling down the street and not feel like a criminal.

[Fly320s]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

There's nuance for sure. It all depends on articulation, the circumstances and other legal standing.

And that is the problem I have with poorly written laws and over-eager cops. Those cops aren't enforcing a law to Protect and Serve. They are enforcing a law, which may or may not apply depending on the nuance, articulation, circumstances and other legal standings, to make a point or to use that as an excuse to fish/search for more information/evidence. Or because the cop had his feelings hurt from "the person is being an ass."

There should not be a gray area in the law. And cops shouldn't be required to interpret the law based on nuance to figure out if a law has been broken. If there is a gray area, the law should default to the citizen's side, not the cop's side. Sort of a "tie goes to the runner" deal.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Fly320s

And that is the problem I have with poorly written laws and over-eager cops. Those cops aren't enforcing a law to Protect and Serve. They are enforcing a law, which may or may not apply depending on the nuance, articulation, circumstances and other legal standings, to make a point or to use that as an excuse to fish/search for more information/evidence. Or because the cop had his feelings hurt from "the person is being an ass."

There should not be a gray area in the law. And cops shouldn't be required to interpret the law based on nuance to figure out if a law has been broken. If there is a gray area, the law should default to the citizen's side, not the cop's side. Sort of a "tie goes to the runner" deal.

There's nuance is the large majority of the written laws. Even the courts interpret written laws differently. The effectiveness almost always circles back to articulation. Yes, we use petty stuff to fish. It's that petty stuff that leads to the big busts. It's that burnt out tail light that leads to the kidnapping arrest. It's the baby shoe hanging from the rear view mirror that leads to the illegal gun possession charge. It's expired registration that leads to the arrest of a wanted felon. Policing is as much about strategy as it is about pure luck. In most cases the law does defer to the citizen. I might make 30 traffic stops and only cite for a few of them while 90% of them receive a warning and advisement.

P.S. We could enforce everything to the letter, but that would mean everybody would receive citations every day they decide to drive a motor vehicle. It wouldn't be fun for you or for me. I observe a violation probably every 30 seconds.

[rebekahb]

Originally Posted by LemansE90335xi

We can only purchase alcohol in gov't stores and a few select gov't licensed convenience stores way out in the boonies and it has to be transported beyond the reach of the driver meaning in the trunk, hatch or in the box of a pick-up truck. We can't take any booze out of a restaurant or drink while walking down a sidewalk. It's so nice to travel somewhere where you can have a sociable drink while strolling down the street and not feel like a criminal.

Oh wow, that's pretty strict. I would either A. Drink a lot less or B. Buy tons of liquor/wine at a time.

It so strange to me that other places especially more tourist types of areas don't allow drinking and strolling. When we were skiing in Breckinridge, CO a few months ago the people there were happy because they could sell to go drinks because of the pandemic. They had to plaster this goofy sticker to the cup which is weird.

[Fly320s]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It's that burnt out tail light that leads to the kidnapping arrest. It's the baby shoe hanging from the rear view mirror that leads to the illegal gun possession charge. It's expired registration that leads to the arrest of a wanted felon.

Those are black and white example of breaking the law. Maybe inadvertently, but that really doesn't matter.

In most cases the law does defer to the citizen. I might make 30 traffic stops and only cite for a few of them while 90% of them receive a warning and advisement.

That is not law that defers to the citizen. That is you using your discretion to not cite the driver. You pulled them over for a reason. Was the reason because of a clear violation of the law? Or was the reason because you wanted to fish for a bigger catch so you used the nuances of the law to pull someone over?

That is the problem I have: the fishing expedition. That type of law enforcement needs to be reined in. There are way too many laws on the books for any one person to know and follow, which leads to every person breaking some obscure law every day. That, plus police officers looking for a "big catch" and prosecutors looking to make a name for themselves, lead to over zealous enforcement.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Fly320s

Those are black and white example of breaking the law. Maybe inadvertently, but that really doesn't matter.

That is not law that defers to the citizen. That is you using your discretion to not cite the driver. You pulled them over for a reason. Was the reason because of a clear violation of the law? Or was the reason because you wanted to fish for a bigger catch so you used the nuances of the law to pull someone over?

That is the problem I have: the fishing expedition. That type of law enforcement needs to be reined in. There are way too many laws on the books for any one person to know and follow, which leads to every person breaking some obscure law every day. That, plus police officers looking for a "big catch" and prosecutors looking to make a name for themselves, lead to over zealous enforcement.

It's both! That's how policing works. That's the whole concept behind reasonable suspicion and probable cause. It can't be reined in because you'd effectively disable policing. Without the ability to be proactive, what's the point of having police?!? We are already primarily reactionary as it is. Do you not want cops to be proactive and look for crime/criminals?!? I can tell you with absolute certainty that absent a call for service, proactive fishing is how you catch bad guys.

[TiMSport]

Originally Posted by LemansE90335xi

We can only purchase alcohol in gov't stores and a few select gov't licensed convenience stores way out in the boonies and it has to be transported beyond the reach of the driver meaning in the trunk, hatch or in the box of a pick-up truck. We can't take any booze out of a restaurant or drink while walking down a sidewalk. It's so nice to travel somewhere where you can have a sociable drink while strolling down the street and not feel like a criminal.

Such contrast when you consider pot is legal in all of Canada. Lol. That's one thing I doubt will ever happen here in the deep South.