[m2ss]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Throttle house tested a car and said they hated it with specific examples. Car is bad.

Chris Harris thought about a car while in the shower. Car is good. Period.

I love Canadians...

[marlinduke]

He continues to torture us...

[JustinHEMI]

We should start a poll to see how many are waiting for his review before buying. Also, I wonder if that guy that sold his because of the TH review might get another after Chris's?

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

We should start a poll to see how many are waiting for his review before buying. Also, I wonder if that guy that sold his because of the TH review might get another after Chris's?

I feel people are getting way too invested into it, TBH. Chris is just one reviewer among many, idolizing him simply because we like what he says... well that's how some really bad things happen, historically speaking. Just an observation.

I try not to idolize those I agree with, nor demonize those I don't.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I feel people are getting way too invested into it, TBH. Chris is just one reviewer among many, idolizing him simply because we like what he says... well that's how some really bad things happen, historically speaking. Just an observation.

I try not to idolize those I agree with, nor demonize those I don't.

Word.

[jpolabam]

2023 Chris Harris is no longer the same person as Chris Harris on Cars. Things happen, perspectives change.

Funny thing is how he gave so much grief to the G80 including the M style mirrors but seems pretty happy with the G87 (based on his Instagram).

The practical reality is that the G87 is poor brother of the G82 rather than the descendent of the 1M or M2CS… which means it’s too much of a poverty pack (compared to the M4) to be a decent GT car but not enough of a scoundrel to like the 1M or the F87…

[Ctothej]

Originally Posted by jpolabam

2023 Chris Harris is no longer the same person as Chris Harris on Cars. Things happen, perspectives change.

Funny thing is how he gave so much grief to the G80 including the M style mirrors but seems pretty happy with the G87 (based on his Instagram).

The practical reality is that the G87 is poor brother of the G82 rather than the descendent of the 1M or M2CS… which means it’s too much of a poverty pack (compared to the M4) to be a decent GT car but not enough of a scoundrel to like the 1M or the F87…

Too much of a poverty pack compared to the M2? Have to disagree, quite strongly that too - detuned engine that's pulling 475 hp on dyno. Definitely not as fast as the M4, but more playful than the M4, and agreed, not a scoundrel like the F87 - Seeing that you're in Sydney, you know the price difference between the M4 and the M2 in our market, which makes the G87 the perfect upgrade from the F87, with both, interior and engine upgrades, while reducing the performance gap with the M4. Ofcourse BMW have had to cut back on costs to justify the price difference between the M2 and M4, but by no means is this a poverty pack.

[marlinduke]

I look forward to Chris Harris reviews regardless of what car. He's articulate and hilarious. His pieces justify themselves for being entertaining and verbally adept, not to rationalize whether one buys a car or not. And for a car that's clearly controversial, it'll just be interesting to see what arises as he destroys its tires.

[Click_ID]

Originally Posted by jpolabam

2023 Chris Harris is no longer the same person as Chris Harris on Cars. Things happen, perspectives change.

The funny thing is how he gave so much grief to the G80 including the M style mirrors but seems pretty happy with the G87 (based on his Instagram).

The practical reality is that the G87 is poor brother of the G82 rather than the descendent of the 1M or M2CS… which means it’s too much of a poverty pack (compared to the M4) to be a decent GT car but not enough of a scoundrel to like the 1M or the F87…

This is exactly why I love cars, we can all have legitimate perspectives... and not kill each other.

While on the surface I completely agree, when I dive in I see things differently.

The 1m was a skunkworks project. Before this car, the average M owner wouldn't be modifying their cars. They were "perfect" from the factory.
Now, we ALL modify. Giving life to; AutoID,IND dist, and Kies & & &.

The 1m, was a 1 series with parts from the m3/4 thrown at it. That is more or less what this car is, isn't it?
Almost everything... except Doors, cards, seat belt presenters, etc.
The Skunkworks team did what we all do now, it's just our parts-bins are online and not internal.

BMW then saw how excited their own team got and was like sell the car to customers who 'want the car to be like the old car was". Knowing full well we want to be the Skunkworks team and give them the M Performance Parts Divison and parts book.

They are literally giving us what the masses want, and we are complaining while spoon-feeding it to ourselves.

My point is, that while this car ( and likely all future ones) doesn't feel special the same way the ones you mentioned because they were the firsts. If we are "chasing the dragon" we'll never catch it. They have given us a "choose your own adventure book" mass consumers just haven't realized it and shake their fists and say "It's too heavy, it's ugly." Yet they fail to realize that M Performance Parts didn't come to life until fairly recently.

Just my 2 cents that will likely die in this thread forever

See you guys at Mpact!

[cmgbk75]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

We should start a poll to see how many are waiting for his review before buying. Also, I wonder if that guy that sold his because of the TH review might get another after Chris's?

0twentyone?

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by jpolabam

The practical reality is that the G87 is poor brother of the G82 rather than the descendent of the 1M or M2CS… which means it’s too much of a poverty pack (compared to the M4) to be a decent GT car but not enough of a scoundrel to like the 1M or the F87…

Having put some miles on a 1M and owned a F87C and now a G87, I can truly say that you have literally no idea what you're talking about.
It is an excellent GT car and a badass performance car, much more so than anything BMW has made previously. You can drive in comfort with the adjustable suspension, which soaks up bumps much more than any F series car has and with the press of a button or two, you get a sports car that runs 11s and has 1g of grip. Oh and it can drift for miles if you want. It's full of carbon fiber and has amazing buckets, can be had with, get this, a six speed manual, and has tremendous front end grip and is able to put power down in the back, which previous M cars had trouble with. The car is absolutely game changing. It's a 911 at a Cayman price point. Stop the nonsense.

[shehatezme]

I think the reality is that with each new generation, MFers always got sh!t to say. E9x m3 came out, people complained about the v8… m3 should only come with a 6 and the car has too much tech. F8x m3 fking turbos and it sounds like sh!t. G8x m3, look at that grill and zf8 no dct! People always btch. All I can say is that each generation has always been misunderstood in the beginning but always come into its own. Each platform has been popular with enthusiasts. We are entering the last decade of combustion engines and manual transmission. We should just celebrate the fact that BMW still making cars we can drive not cars that drives us. There are only 3 US models BMW make that comes in a manual. In most other parts of the world… 1. Let that sink in.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Having put some miles on a 1M and owned a F87C and now a G87, I can truly say that you have literally no idea what you're talking about.
It is an excellent GT car and a badass performance car, much more so than anything BMW has made previously. You can drive in comfort with the adjustable suspension, which soaks up bumps much more than any F series car has and with the press of a button or two, you get a sports car that runs 11s and has 1g of grip. Oh and it can drift for miles if you want. It's full of carbon fiber and has amazing buckets, can be had with, get this, a six speed manual, and has tremendous front end grip and is able to put power down in the back, which previous M cars had trouble with. The car is absolutely game changing. It's a 911 at a Cayman price point. Stop the nonsense.

Adding to all of your excellent points. One of the things that I never expected and impressed me most are its brakes. MotorWeek summed it up best.

Our test drivers actually used the words “bonkers” and “crazy” to describe braking performance, which I guess are fitting descriptors for stopping from 60 in just 88-feet, smoothly with zero nosedive.

[rangerfan94]

Originally Posted by Tag

Adding to all of your excellent points. One of the things that I never expected and impressed me most are its brakes. MotorWeek summed it up best.

Agreed, the breaks are excellent. Not quite up to 911 non-ceramic level, but almost. But the darn squeak is unbearable.

I don't understand why anyone who doesn't track their car (me!) cares about Chris Harris' review for anything beyond the entertainment factor. Personally, I find all of the reviewer reports about track behavior to be irrelevant. I only care what people have to say about their on the road experience, how it compares to other similar cars, and the capability of the car as a daily. The rest of it I still watch and enjoy, including most of Chris Harris' stuff, but it has zero impact on my decision to put a car onto my want list. I'm also a person that has never cared about 0-60 times and exhaust volume. Guess I must have been born old

[jpolabam]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Having put some miles on a 1M and owned a F87C and now a G87, I can truly say that you have literally no idea what you're talking about.
It is an excellent GT car and a badass performance car, much more so than anything BMW has made previously. You can drive in comfort with the adjustable suspension, which soaks up bumps much more than any F series car has and with the press of a button or two, you get a sports car that runs 11s and has 1g of grip. Oh and it can drift for miles if you want. It's full of carbon fiber and has amazing buckets, can be had with, get this, a six speed manual, and has tremendous front end grip and is able to put power down in the back, which previous M cars had trouble with. The car is absolutely game changing. It's a 911 at a Cayman price point. Stop the nonsense.

As someone who owns an M2CS (also the 718 GTS4.0) driven back to back the G82/87, I respectfully disagree. I’ll double down and say the G87 is so close the the G82 in driving dynamics and once you exclude size it feels like more of the same car but paired back which I feel wasn’t the case with the earlier 1/2 series cars

To call it an excellent GT car and much more so than anything BMW has previously made is such a reach.

Is the car faster and more comfortable as a daily driver? Yeah, sure and you’d hope so considering the age difference between the models

Is it better than the F87? Cast wheels vs forged, poorly welded aluminium strut brace vs 3K carbon, common chasis with the 3/4 series and the associated weight, torque converter auto vs DCT? Even the ‘merino package’ is limited to the buckets and does not extend to the other touchpoints like the CS - granted these are CS items vs standard

Just because it’s new doesn’t mean it’s a better product. If a G87CS model comes I’ll still buy it but the question is whether or not I’ll keep it….

[jpolabam]

Originally Posted by Ctothej

Too much of a poverty pack compared to the M2? Have to disagree, quite strongly that too - detuned engine that's pulling 475 hp on dyno. Definitely not as fast as the M4, but more playful than the M4, and agreed, not a scoundrel like the F87 - Seeing that you're in Sydney, you know the price difference between the M4 and the M2 in our market, which makes the G87 the perfect upgrade from the F87, with both, interior and engine upgrades, while reducing the performance gap with the M4. Ofcourse BMW have had to cut back on costs to justify the price difference between the M2 and M4, but by no means is this a poverty pack.

It’s a poverty pack compared the the M4, if you look online you will see plenty of G82 non comps with circa 10K on the clock around the $140K vs a new G87 no carbon pack for $133K, once you option the carbon buckets is the G87 still worth it? No weight difference, more creature comforts, forged rims, laser lights, merino at the touch points etc

[fcman]

Originally Posted by jpolabam

It’s a poverty pack compared the the M4, if you look online you will see plenty of G82 non comps with circa 10K on the clock around the $140K vs a new G87 no carbon pack for $133K, once you option the carbon buckets is the G87 still worth it? No weight difference, more creature comforts, forged rims, laser lights, merino at the touch points etc

Now we’re complaining that an M2 is an M2? All of these complaints apply to the F87 M2Comp vs the F82 as well (except the wheels I’ll give you that one)

[jpolabam]

Originally Posted by fcman

Now we’re complaining that an M2 is an M2? All of these complaints apply to the F87 M2Comp vs the F82 as well (except the wheels I’ll give you that one)

I think you’re missing my point here. Please don’t turn this into a discussion driven by a whataboutism.

My points are very specific

1. The G87 drives so similar to the G82 and is so closely priced why bother with the G87? The distinction in driving characteristics were greater in the F series which meant it really came down to preference of a ‘GT’ verses a snappy little pocket rocket

2. The G87 aside from isn’t an objectively better made product over the F87 albeit it is has a more modern interior, faster or drives better - see alloy strut, heavy common chassis, touchscreen a/c interface, cast iron wheels

3. I’m not even referencing aesthetics but if BSM is a colour that a car looks good in you really have to ask if it’s a good design. Let’s not even discuss the so called M performance enhancements

IMO for a car that’s meant to be celebrated as the last manual, pure ICE M car they’ve done a piss poor job with this base spec, maybe and hopefully they go give it a worthwhile send-off via a CS or even a CSL edition

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by jpolabam

As someone who owns an M2CS (also the 718 GTS4.0) driven back to back the G82/87, I respectfully disagree. I’ll double down and say the G87 is so close the the G82 in driving dynamics and once you exclude size it feels like more of the same car but paired back which I feel wasn’t the case with the earlier 1/2 series cars

To call it an excellent GT car and much more so than anything BMW has previously made is such a reach.

Is the car faster and more comfortable as a daily driver? Yeah, sure and you’d hope so considering the age difference between the models

Is it better than the F87? Cast wheels vs forged, poorly welded aluminium strut brace vs 3K carbon, common chasis with the 3/4 series and the associated weight, torque converter auto vs DCT? Even the ‘merino package’ is limited to the buckets and does not extend to the other touchpoints like the CS - granted these are CS items vs standard

Just because it’s new doesn’t mean it’s a better product. If a G87CS model comes I’ll still buy it but the question is whether or not I’ll keep it….

Originally Posted by jpolabam

I think you’re missing my point here. Please don’t turn this into a discussion driven by a whataboutism.

My points are very specific

1. The G87 drives so similar to the G82 and is so closely priced why bother with the G87? The distinction in driving characteristics were greater in the F series which meant it really came down to preference of a ‘GT’ verses a snappy little pocket rocket

2. The G87 aside from isn’t objectively a better made product over the F87 albeit it is faster or drives better - see alloy strut, heavy common chassis, touchscreen a/c interface, cast iron wheels

3. I’m not even referencing aesthetics but if BSM is a colour that a car looks good in you really have to ask if it’s a good design. Let’s not even discuss the so called M performance enhancements

IMO for a car that’s meant to be celebrated as the last manual, pure ICE M car they’ve done a piss poor job with this base spec, maybe and hopefully they go give it a worthwhile send-off via a CS or even a CSL edition

I can’t argue with your success:
Business good enough to enable you to buy nice cars and have so much free time to spare and spend wisely by going to a car forum of a car you don’t own and dislike just to convince owners of said car you are correct.
Bonus points for flexing with pictures of other random cars you happen to own.

Kudos on the success!

[fcman]

Originally Posted by jpolabam

I think you’re missing my point here. Please don’t turn this into a discussion driven by a whataboutism.

My points are very specific

1. The G87 drives so similar to the G82 and is so closely priced why bother with the G87? The distinction in driving characteristics were greater in the F series which meant it really came down to preference of a ‘GT’ verses a snappy little pocket rocket

Sounds like the real question is why bother with the G82? $15k price difference in equal condition (new vs new) is not negligible, it’s nearly a 25% increase

Originally Posted by jpolabam

2. The G87 aside from isn’t an objectively better made product over the F87 albeit it is has a more modern interior, faster or drives better - see alloy strut, heavy common chassis, touchscreen a/c interface, cast iron wheels


IMO for a car that’s meant to be celebrated as the last manual, pure ICE M car they’ve done a piss poor job with this base spec, maybe and hopefully they go give it a worthwhile send-off via a CS or even a CSL edition

Point #3 fair enough. Looks are subjective. I don’t find the F87 or G87 particularly attractive. But I don’t buy cars to look at them

As far as point 2, the car is heavier but that just the reality of modern BMWs. The F87C was not lightweight either and I find it very interesting that F87 owners have decided that F87C weight was somehow the magic limit to what is acceptable. Compared to my previous cars they are all porkers, one being marginally heavier is a drop in the bucket.

Complaining about the strut brace is such a nitpick I feel like you’re really struggling to find anything objective here where the F87 comes out on top. The wheels are coming off anyway so no loss there.

Touch screen is also subjective and again, just a reality of buying a modern BMW

[Basketcase]

Originally Posted by jpolabam

I think you’re missing my point here. Please don’t turn this into a discussion driven by a whataboutism.

My points are very specific

1. The G87 drives so similar to the G82 and is so closely priced why bother with the G87? The distinction in driving characteristics were greater in the F series which meant it really came down to preference of a ‘GT’ verses a snappy little pocket rocket

2. The G87 aside from isn’t an objectively better made product over the F87 albeit it is has a more modern interior, faster or drives better - see alloy strut, heavy common chassis, touchscreen a/c interface, cast iron wheels

3. I’m not even referencing aesthetics but if BSM is a colour that a car looks good in you really have to ask if it’s a good design. Let’s not even discuss the so called M performance enhancements

IMO for a car that’s meant to be celebrated as the last manual, pure ICE M car they’ve done a piss poor job with this base spec, maybe and hopefully they go give it a worthwhile send-off via a CS or even a CSL edition

This weight talk compared to the old one really bothers me... people seem to forget the F87c weighed MORE than the M4 when it came out. And even when they changed the F82s wheels and swapped to a steel driveshaft from CF, the M4 weighed only 25lbs more than the M2C.

So this whole argument of the G87 being built on a shared platform (which is a negative? It makes sense since all of the underpinnings of the M4 are used - which is the biggest positive) and the weight has gone up and such... yes it has! It also comes with WAY more tech, safety, stability and creature comforts than the last M2 came with. All while only weighing 150lbs more than the F87C. People talk like this thing is 400lbs more than the last generation.

Yes they skimped on the cast wheels.. easy to swap out if it bothers you! It was in their efforts to keep the base costs lower, and they didn't strip the rest of the options off the car that matter and/or are not able to upgrade if you choose. I think the cost is amazing for what you get, and less than I anticipated it being once they released the specs for the new model.

[Alex_bm]

Which is a better daily driver in your opinion - M2CS or GTS 4.0?

Originally Posted by jpolabam

As someone who owns an M2CS (also the 718 GTS4.0) driven back to back the G82/87, I respectfully disagree. I’ll double down and say the G87 is so close the the G82 in driving dynamics and once you exclude size it feels like more of the same car but paired back which I feel wasn’t the case with the earlier 1/2 series cars

To call it an excellent GT car and much more so than anything BMW has previously made is such a reach.

Is the car faster and more comfortable as a daily driver? Yeah, sure and you’d hope so considering the age difference between the models

Is it better than the F87? Cast wheels vs forged, poorly welded aluminium strut brace vs 3K carbon, common chasis with the 3/4 series and the associated weight, torque converter auto vs DCT? Even the ‘merino package’ is limited to the buckets and does not extend to the other touchpoints like the CS - granted these are CS items vs standard

Just because it’s new doesn’t mean it’s a better product. If a G87CS model comes I’ll still buy it but the question is whether or not I’ll keep it….