[schriss]

I understand all that but the point is: if the car does not run in stratified for a year, it fouls catalytic converters (and any probes). So I'm glad to see my values are now down and passed.
(temp is clearly incorrect, oil temp was 80C at test center when I left the car, but still, one would expect to see worse numbers on cold engine that is trying to warm up)
In other words, I wasn't looking to see any NOX values in official emissions tests results since they are not tested, I was afraid to see how my catalytic converters will do and for now, they did great. Hope to see the same next year.
Lower HC value is likely due to car not running rich all the time anymore.

[jirka330i]

Originally Posted by schriss

I understand all that but the point is: if the car does not run in stratified for a year, it fouls catalytic converters (and any probes). So I'm glad to see my values are now down and passed.
(temp is clearly incorrect, oil temp was 80C at test center when I left the car, but still, one would expect to see worse numbers on cold engine that is trying to warm up)
In other words, I wasn't looking to see any NOX values in official emissions tests results since they are not tested, I was afraid to see how my catalytic converters will do and for now, they did great. Hope to see the same next year.
Lower HC value is likely due to car not running rich all the time anymore.

The fact that the stratified did not run a year or so has no effect on emissions I do believe; if you run in homogenous mode only... nox cat has nothing to do...
The fact that injectors were leaking (or CCV membrane broken or etc) have a serious impact on emissions...and in fact that could lead to a damage of CO kats on bank 1 or 2 depending which injector leaks

[schriss]

I assume not running stratified means running inefficiently rich, which can be noticed by black exhaust, smelly exhaust fumes and increased fuel consumption, all of which can happen when injectors are fine, if there are NOX codes present meaning NOX sensor not working.

[jirka330i]

Originally Posted by schriss

I assume not running stratified means running inefficiently rich, which can be noticed by black exhaust, smelly exhaust fumes and increased fuel consumption, all of which can happen when injectors are fine, if there are NOX codes present meaning NOX sensor not working.

i do not think so....black exhaust is a typical sign of direct injection (and by the way- check your intake ports for carbonization and consider walnut blast); smelly exhaust fumes often links to a leaking injector;

not running stratified means running homogenous which is well proven and reliable mode (very standard for previous reliable bmw engine generations like n52...); all parametres of that mode are efficiently managed by ecu (it has its own maps)...and you are right that this mode has higher consumption than stratified

i believe that the stratifiied was originally invented by japanes (Honda, Mazda???) and german engineers just succeeded to overcomplicate it...that is why it only existed in n43/n53 engines

fortunately, almost anyone can simplify this (and happily make over 400kmiles with the engine without worrying about nox system and its weaknesses)...i have a few of those around:
-map out nox system (simplier way available at tuners is without stratified mode; the other option with stratified is very rare and requires a lot of experimenting and capable ecu programmer...could be more direct if someone has complete documentation of msd80 incl algorithms etc...which is about 9000pages and not easy to get- some russians offer it for usd400)
-take out nox cat and nox sensor(just in simple option with homogenous) and sell them at ebay
-enjoy homogenous (yes you will pay bit more on petrol...but look at the price of raw petroleum today; and yes you will save quite an amount for service related to nox system and its weaknesses); morever- you can than start using another plugs with smaller gap (more precise run), more reliable and durable coilpacks with smaller secondary winding (which will limit the risk of killing of your ecu to almost zero....while combination of big gap plugs and appropriate coils needed especially for stratified is the proven killer of mosfets and igbts in msd80/81)

[schriss]

Maybe, but I intend to keep my Stratified mode running as long as possible, I like it a lot My exhaust is not even getting black like it used to, now it's just gray easy to clean. Not afraid of mosfets as it's only msd80 causing them to fail (replacement is only temp fix), not msd81 which I have, but also I can solder new mosfets no problem if needed.
Anyway, just happy to see emissions passed, now hoping for few years of no issues.

[schriss]

Back to that free app I linked few posts back, this proves it actually works as I can see my mirrors codes, exact same as in ISTA-D. So no more laptop+cable when going on a longer trip

[aaronblack]

Originally Posted by jirka330i

i do not think so....black exhaust is a typical sign of direct injection (and by the way- check your intake ports for carbonization and consider walnut blast); smelly exhaust fumes often links to a leaking injector;

not running stratified means running homogenous which is well proven and reliable mode (very standard for previous reliable bmw engine generations like n52...); all parametres of that mode are efficiently managed by ecu (it has its own maps)...and you are right that this mode has higher consumption than stratified

i believe that the stratifiied was originally invented by japanes (Honda, Mazda???) and german engineers just succeeded to overcomplicate it...that is why it only existed in n43/n53 engines

fortunately, almost anyone can simplify this (and happily make over 400kmiles with the engine without worrying about nox system and its weaknesses)...i have a few of those around:
-map out nox system (simplier way available at tuners is without stratified mode; the other option with stratified is very rare and requires a lot of experimenting and capable ecu programmer...could be more direct if someone has complete documentation of msd80 incl algorithms etc...which is about 9000pages and not easy to get- some russians offer it for usd400)
-take out nox cat and nox sensor(just in simple option with homogenous) and sell them at ebay
-enjoy homogenous (yes you will pay bit more on petrol...but look at the price of raw petroleum today; and yes you will save quite an amount for service related to nox system and its weaknesses); morever- you can than start using another plugs with smaller gap (more precise run), more reliable and durable coilpacks with smaller secondary winding (which will limit the risk of killing of your ecu to almost zero....while combination of big gap plugs and appropriate coils needed especially for stratified is the proven killer of mosfets and igbts in msd80/81)

I have to disagree with you a bit on this.

I have a N52 and N53, both are very well maintained only issue with the N53 is Nox. Now my N52 on the same route to work and back easily does 40mpg yet my N53 does 28/30 max!

My thinking is if the N52 use the same homogenous as the N53 how does it get better mpg? Again I've checked coils, injectors, sparks etc are all good on my N53.

My limited understanding is when the N53 doesn't run stratified it's running rich not normal.

[schriss]

Originally Posted by aaronblack

My limited understanding is when the N53 doesn't run stratified it's running rich not normal.

Same here. One guess might be it NEEDS Stratified mode to create some maps for Homogen mode, I don't think it was just Stratified mode added to Homogen mode, more like the opposite or total redesign, but who knows.
But observation of my own car suggests what you said.

[jirka330i]

Originally Posted by aaronblack

I have to disagree with you a bit on this.

I have a N52 and N53, both are very well maintained only issue with the N53 is Nox. Now my N52 on the same route to work and back easily does 40mpg yet my N53 does 28/30 max!

My thinking is if the N52 use the same homogenous as the N53 how does it get better mpg? Again I've checked coils, injectors, sparks etc are all good on my N53.

My limited understanding is when the N53 doesn't run stratified it's running rich not normal.

same homogenous mode does not necessarily mean very same engine parts...major difference between n52 and 53 in that respect being piezo injectors allowing very precise fuel delivery control, hpfp, improved maps,different afr,improved ecu/engine management etc...I thing that these contribute to more than 70% of improved fuel economy (estimate based on guys I know that are running BMW3 n53 with homogenous only)

i do not say that stratified is bad...i do say that it is a mode which does not deserve to be saved at any cost...when it is clearly possible to operate the engine at the similar costs (operational+service) with homogenous mode only
I also do understand that especially for BMW 5/6/7 owners with n53 it gives more sense to keep stratified due to the fuel economy; for myself...having BMW3 which I purchased for the real driving experience and fun factor...fuel economy is not a dogma...my statistcs say that I have never used stratified in more than 40% of the mileage driven, and that was already a limit where I felt myself as a german discount pensioner (in that case it would be more rational however if I purchased Skoda Octavia 1,2 TSI...also with direct injection)

cheers

[schriss]

That's why there are choices I love my N53 and Stratified charge mode and intend to keep it running at all costs hehe I used to monitor modes before and I can say it was on most of the driving time.
Actually I need to buy 2 new injectors, only 4 replaced so far... but it's running great now.

[jirka330i]

Originally Posted by schriss

same here. One guess might be it needs stratified mode to create some maps for homogen mode, i don't think it was just stratified mode added to homogen mode, more like the opposite or total redesign, but who knows.
But observation of my own car suggests what you said.

when ecu of n53 is not able to switch to stratified it runs homogenous. Homogenous is the standard mode for acceleration, dynamic driving etc (it can be remapped in both directions-higher hp or better fuel economy)

when ecu of n53 is polluted by errors it stops adaptations and for some types of errors (incl all nox related errors) also restricts stratified. Stopped or not completed adaptations can negatively impact engine efficiency at any operational mode

[aaronblack]

Originally Posted by schriss

That's why there are choices I love my N53 and Stratified charge mode and intend to keep it running at all costs hehe I used to monitor modes before and I can say it was on most of the driving time.
Actually I need to buy 2 new injectors, only 4 replaced so far... but it's running great now.

Do post your mpg figures please, Ive called almost all mappers who will touch the N53 but none has confirm whether their Nox delete maps enable stratified mode hence I'm thinking to just get the NOXEM

[aaronblack]

Originally Posted by jirka330i

same homogenous mode does not necessarily mean very same engine parts...major difference between n52 and 53 in that respect being piezo injectors allowing very precise fuel delivery control, hpfp, improved maps,different afr,improved ecu/engine management etc...I thing that these contribute to more than 70% of improved fuel economy (estimate based on guys I know that are running BMW3 n53 with homogenous only)

i do not say that stratified is bad...i do say that it is a mode which does not deserve to be saved at any cost...when it is clearly possible to operate the engine at the similar costs (operational+service) with homogenous mode only
I also do understand that especially for BMW 5/6/7 owners with n53 it gives more sense to keep stratified due to the fuel economy; for myself...having BMW3 which I purchased for the real driving experience and fun factor...fuel economy is not a dogma...my statistcs say that I have never used stratified in more than 40% of the mileage driven, and that was already a limit where I felt myself as a german discount pensioner (in that case it would be more rational however if I purchased Skoda Octavia 1,2 TSI...also with direct injection)

cheers

True, if this was my weekender or I didn't do as many miles or use it as a daily I totally understand your point and wouldn't bother with stratified. But for an enthusiast who daily to work but love a bit of spirited driving every now and then, unfortunately I do rely on MPG as the difference in my case is quite significant.

[schriss]

Originally Posted by aaronblack

Do post your mpg figures please, Ive called almost all mappers who will touch the N53 but none has confirm whether their Nox delete maps enable stratified mode hence I'm thinking to just get the NOXEM

I will have a 300km trip in the next few days and I will try to measure MPG somehow. Trip computer in my CCC is kind of weird (will try it anyway), but I have an app that shows me my fuel level in actual Liters, so will note that before and after and that probably is best to compare with kilometers driven.

As a side note, I was VERY surprised to see that my 3.0L N53 has actually better, not same but better, fuel economy than my older 2.2L E46 M54. Yea it's newer engine and all that, but still, it is larger and yet better economy and power.

[schriss]

If only I could get this menu to work, but it never worked for me. Other menus work including "Onboard" which shows instant MGP, speed and other things.
My CCC was retrofited so maybe thats why or maybe I don't know how to use. There is Start/Stop/Reset under that Set menu, nothing works or does anything there.
I think I tried to set Destination in Nav first, but will try it again.

[Sayek]

My Nox sensor has been dead over a year and been considering replacing with the Noxem.

I do mainly short trips around town so my question to guys out there is any advantage of fitting a Noxem.
Does the car really drive in Statified mode in town driving and will i recover the cost in fuel saving.
The Noxem cost about £300 and looking around £50 to get this fitted as i dont DIY under the car.

Finally i ready the installation needs CAT res in ISTA. How hard is it to use ISTA. I have used INPA and Carly if that helps

[schriss]

Originally Posted by Sayek

My Nox sensor has been dead over a year and been considering replacing with the Noxem.

I do mainly short trips around town so my question to guys out there is any advantage of fitting a Noxem.
Does the car really drive in Statified mode in town driving and will i recover the cost in fuel saving.
The Noxem cost about £300 and looking around £50 to get this fitted as i dont DIY under the car.

Finally i ready the installation needs CAT res in ISTA. How hard is it to use ISTA. I have used INPA and Carly if that helps

It does drive in Stratified in city on any longer stretch between lights but not to a point that you would see cost savings.
What is your other option? I wouldn't want to drive with any NOX related code as it wasn't designed for this and we do notice blacker exhaust and also I read it runs richer then and that is bad for the other cats and O2 sensors - BUT it's all debatable, everyone has own opinion, that was just mine.
My main reason to get NOXEM was to get car running as it should, if I didn't get NOXEM I would get OEM sensor BUT in such case there is worry that nox cat might need to be replaced too. So I went NOXEM route. Noxem doing cat regens less frequently than OEM might mean there is no going back to OEM sensor for me, but who knows.

If you used INPA, then from software side of things, it's all ready to run ISTA. If you install it, then start it and first thing go into settings, there is connections tab and change from iNET or whatever to edibas and that's it.
Using it is VERY different but actually makes more sense as things are grouped in menus, once you find a how-to on forums, you will know where to click. Doing reset itself very easy, ISTA actually guides through process, you just click next, proceed, ect, then it says it's done. You do it for the sensor and then for the cat. I would say it is easy and I would even say less risky to do wrong thing than INPA where you press wrong button and too late, something already done.
If you never used ISTA, you might see some old codes you never seen before or some modules shown in yellow or even red instead of green. It will show you if code is present or not, meaning you might see codes from a year ago each showing mileage at that time. You might want to take a screenshot before deleting as this won't come back.
But if you used the free app I linked few post earlier and you saw your codes, then ISTA should show exact same ones, no surprises.

[Sayek]

Originally Posted by schriss

It does drive in Stratified in city on any longer stretch between lights but not to a point that you would see cost savings.
What is your other option? I wouldn't want to drive with any NOX related code as it wasn't designed for this and we do notice blacker exhaust and also I read it runs richer then and that is bad for the other cats and O2 sensors - BUT it's all debatable, everyone has own opinion, that was just mine.
My main reason to get NOXEM was to get car running as it should, if I didn't get NOXEM I would get OEM sensor BUT in such case there is worry that nox cat might need to be replaced too. So I went NOXEM route. Noxem doing cat regens less frequently than OEM might mean there is no going back to OEM sensor for me, but who knows.

If you used INPA, then from software side of things, it's all ready to run ISTA. If you install it, then start it and first thing go into settings, there is connections tab and change from iNET or whatever to edibas and that's it.
Using it is VERY different but actually makes more sense as things are grouped in menus, once you find a how-to on forums, you will know where to click. Doing reset itself very easy, ISTA actually guides through process, you just click next, proceed, ect, then it says it's done. You do it for the sensor and then for the cat. I would say it is easy and I would even say less risky to do wrong thing than INPA where you press wrong button and too late, something already done.
If you never used ISTA, you might see some old codes you never seen before or some modules shown in yellow or even red instead of green. It will show you if code is present or not, meaning you might see codes from a year ago each showing mileage at that time. You might want to take a screenshot before deleting as this won't come back.
But if you used the free app I linked few post earlier and you saw your codes, then ISTA should show exact same ones, no surprises.

Thanks for you help

My exhaust tip is sooty and recently started to get intermittent post cat O2 sensor errors. The car does run rich and smell fuel in the morning.
The mileage is 135k so don't see the point of getting OEM NOX sensor as the NOX cat cant be far behind.

Based on what you said i may need to get fit a Noxem and new post cat O2 sensor same time.

Anyone within my travel distance able to fit and code the NOXEM and code it. I figure better to pay someone that has knowledge of this instead of local garage that are useless.

[schriss]

Originally Posted by Sayek

Thanks for you help

My exhaust tip is sooty and recently started to get intermittent post cat O2 sensor errors. The car does run rich and smell fuel in the morning.
The mileage is 135k so don't see the point of getting OEM NOX sensor as the NOX cat cant be far behind.

Based on what you said i may need to get fit a Noxem and new post cat O2 sensor same time.

Anyone within my travel distance able to fit and code the NOXEM and code it. I figure better to pay someone that has knowledge of this instead of local garage that are useless.

What I did was my garage was doing some work on the car and while it was on the lift I replaced OEM Nox with NOXEM myself, drove home and coded things later. Replacing is relatively easy 15 mins job or less. 8 bolts hold a rectangular place, then there is bracket that has sensor module on it, you just unscrew old and replace with noxem module. Sensor itself was easy for me but sometimes it is hard to get off, needs a wrench (13mm if I remember, but I had entire wrench set with me), in my case no isses others say its rusted in and requires more force. But as you can see it is in very easy to reach area.
There is a chance once car stops running rich, that your O2 code might go away.
Entire replacement procedure here:

best to pay the garage to get car on lift and then let them do it or you do it and then do coding yourself at any later time at home.
If only you get ISTA-D running and able to scan car with it - you will be able to do it easily.

[schriss]

Also, ISTA-D steps are really easy: https://bimmerprofs.com/encoding-new...tic-converter/

[Sayek]

Originally Posted by schriss

Also, ISTA-D steps are really easy: https://bimmerprofs.com/encoding-new...tic-converter/

Appreciate your help

[Dormermike]

Weirdly my ISTA doesn't have "Nitrogen oxide catalytic converter" in the menu, yet it recognises the car just fine