[Brock Landers]

400whp was achieved with stock downpipes. Go down to 91 octane, but add freeflow cats and you will stay at 400whp

[Eberhard]

Many current stock production liter-bikes produced ~160 bhp/liter with a mapped Dynojet PowerCommander and no other modifications on pump fuel. And this figure is low since the ram-air effect pressurizing the typical seven liter air box is not in play on the Dynojet platdorm. It is said to produce ~10% more power at top speed.

Honda's MotoGP RC211V in its one liter incarnation was rumored to produce 220 bhp/liter. Certainly a full race engine, its figures are comparable to current F1 powerplants. Given here for reference.

And yes, chain driven motorcycles have less power loss from the crank to the rear wheel - but not by much more than 10%. And I dare say that their engines are designed for a lower lifetime than an automobiles (you don't see many sports bikes with >100,000 miles on the odometer - most likely because the model life-cycle is down to about three years and their riders trade-up).

So, theoretically a rider could roll a three liter sports bike off the showroom floor, install a PowerCommander and map it on a Dynojet platform at about 480 bhp with no other modifications on pump gas. And again without the benefit of even ram air.

One could only imagine what figures would come if the engine was turbocharged.

Nice increase in the 335i rwbhp though - bet it took some effort.

Best,

Eberhard

[BMW3R]

Originally Posted by *****ed335BMW

Now go beat the crap out of the car running those levels for 6 months and let us know if anything actually breaks, this what the people really need to know, what the true limit is for a daily driver!! NICE NUMBERS THOUGH!!!

Agree. I had a Subaru 2.5GT that Cobb Tuning worked over with turbo back, Perrin Up-pipe, Down-pipe and cold air intake. The car ran very fast (Same WHP as a stock 335i) however, the tranny and brakes were not made to handle the daily abuse that I was throwing at the car. Soon I was not able to stop the car and it had a lurch in the shifting all happening at 18,000 miles. I didn't want to put anymore money into the car. I took the car over to the BMW dealer and traded it on my current 335i.

I have debated dropping a ton of cash into the 335 in upgrades, but instead I have decided to move forward to the 2008 M3.

[Vicko]

Originally Posted by BMW3R

Agree. I had a Subaru 2.5GT that Cobb Tuning worked over with turbo back, Perrin Up-pipe, Down-pipe and cold air intake. The car ran very fast (Same WHP as a stock 335i) however, the tranny and brakes were not made to handle the daily abuse that I was throwing at the car. Soon I was not able to stop the car and it had a lurch in the shifting all happening at 18,000 miles. I didn't want to put anymore money into the car. I took the car over to the BMW dealer and traded it on my current 335i.

I have debated dropping a ton of cash into the 335 in upgrades, but instead I have decided to move forward to the 2008 M3.

Good luck budy!! I'll see you back there...

[Dr_Dirt]

Originally Posted by garyhgaryh

Hey I noticed you had (or still have) an '87 Supra Turbo. You get rid of it?
With my 87 Supra, I got ~400HP with bolt ons.
Ingredient for 400rwhp toyota supra:

T04e HKS turbo
Apex Boost controller
HKS downpipe
FCON
1 piece aluminum drive shaft
Gutted cat
Larger Spearco Intercooler

Although not bolt on, I also put in a Metal HG and new rod bearings.

From 225 HP (or about 190rwhp) to 400hp was about $2.5k ($3k max).
Pretty cheap.



Seems like getting to 400rwhp on the 335i is just as "cheap". How I love
turbo cars!

<3k???, that list of parts should cost you ~6k + installation and that wouldn't include the driveshaft or the Metal HG & rod bearings...

Where do you buy your parts from?

[revah2]

Originally Posted by Jonmartin

Great let us know when you find that dyno.. So far alot of the other tunes like the $350.00 JB2 with a few $k of mods on high octane still isn't anywhere near the Procede car with two mods... Same for Xede... And Helix just barely came out don't even go there.

The Xede guys probably wont do it... go to the track... get 100 octane and then dyno their cars. Just from speculation an AA xede car with exhaust is already pushing around 360-365rwhp plus the 100 octane which should be adding another 35-40whp. Again im just speculationg but it makes sense. Right? But wait till November 30th, when all the south florida peeps head upto Moroso.

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by Eberhard

Many current stock production liter-bikes produced ~160 bhp/liter with a mapped Dynojet PowerCommander and no other modifications on pump fuel. And this figure is low since the ram-air effect pressurizing the typical seven liter air box is not in play on the Dynojet platdorm. It is said to produce ~10% more power at top speed.

Honda's MotoGP RC211V in its one liter incarnation was rumored to produce 220 bhp/liter. Certainly a full race engine, its figures are comparable to current F1 powerplants. Given here for reference.

And yes, chain driven motorcycles have less power loss from the crank to the rear wheel - but not by much more than 10%. And I dare say that their engines are designed for a lower lifetime than an automobiles (you don't see many sports bikes with >100,000 miles on the odometer - most likely because the model life-cycle is down to about three years and their riders trade-up).

So, theoretically a rider could roll a three liter sports bike of the showroom floor, install a PowerCommander and map it on a Dynojet platform at about 480 bhp with no other modifications on pump gas. And again without the benefit of even ram air.

One could only imagine what figures would come if the engine was turbocharged.

Nice increase in the 335i rwbhp though - bet it took some effort.

Best,

Eberhard

WTF does this have to do with anything we are talking about?

[HyperM3]

Originally Posted by Eberhard

So, theoretically a rider could roll a three liter sports bike of the showroom floor, install a PowerCommander and map it on a Dynojet platform at about 480 bhp with no other modifications on pump gas. And again without the benefit of even ram air.

Please show me one link to a bike thats done this.

[normtrum]

Originally Posted by revah2

The Xede guys probably wont do it... go to the track... get 100 octane and then dyno their cars. Just from speculation an AA xede car with exhaust is already pushing around 360-365rwhp plus the 100 octane which should be adding another 35-40whp. Again im just speculationg but it makes sense. Right? But wait till November 30th, when all the south florida peeps head upto Moroso.

I really don't think you'll get an extra 35-40 whp with 100 octane. That's a bit of a stretch. I would think more like 1/2 that would be closer.

[Robmaster]

Originally Posted by stillclaimndp

Procede is not just a boost controller It controls ignition, timing, air/fuel, boost, has uploadable maps, etc... Way more adjustability and features than I have taken time to learn...

that's not the point! the point is the engine-comression! you cannot go from ca. 8psi boot to ca. 16psi boost without do anything on the compression!!!

Alpina have on her B3 a boost from 16psi, BUT they have a compression from 9,4:1 with special Mahle-Pistons!!! They dont do this groundless!

I'm sure, long term they kill your engine! you can ask every serious BMW tuner! (AC Schnitzer, Hartge, Hamann, etc.)

[bmwzimmer]

Originally Posted by revah2

The Xede guys probably wont do it... go to the track... get 100 octane and then dyno their cars. Just from speculation an AA xede car with exhaust is already pushing around 360-365rwhp plus the 100 octane which should be adding another 35-40whp. Again im just speculationg but it makes sense. Right? But wait till November 30th, when all the south florida peeps head upto Moroso.

OK, Enough Speculations please and lets get FACTS.

VISHNU > 400hp with 2 Mods & 98 Octane

Everyone else << 400hp

[GTO2turbos]

Originally Posted by Walked U

Theres a lot of cars running stock 12.1 compression ratio with turbo upgrades making big HP.

A couple of them that come to mind are HPF e46 m3, and the ls2 gto with twin gt35 turbos. Thats with stock internals, ect.

I'm running the stock compression of 10.9:1 but 8 psi is the safe limit on boost with 91 octane (conservative tune). Beyond that I don't risk it and run straight 101 octane. Which is damn expensive for daily driving (I bought a used civic to do that now).

Which means the GTO sits alot and is only driven on special occasions. And that takes alot of the fun out of it. Just be aware that if you have to use race fuel ($6gal), particularly in such an expensive and nice driving vehicle like a BMW you may not like it.

And for those that want the sponsor to do extreme durability testing (24hr, multiple day dyno, etc) HE is NOT BMW and does not have the resources to do this kind of testing. This is the high performance aftermarket, not auto manufacturing. When you start modifying cars you WILL break them at some point and that's the risk you take.

Personally, I believe the engine is fully capable of handling the added boost as long as you don't exceed the octane requirements. The transmission is probably a different story.

[Tuned335i]

Originally Posted by GTO2turbos

Which means the GTO sits alot and is only driven on special occasions. And that takes alot of the fun out of it. Just be aware that if you have to use race fuel ($6gal), particularly in such an expensive and nice driving vehicle like a BMW you may not like it.

Kind of in the same situation. My 335i goes out 3 or 4 days a week and is not necessarily my daily driver, I have a Honda for that, rainy days, Home Depot, etc. I have no problem filling with 2/3 91octane & 1/3rd 100octane race fuel which is readily available here. I'll probably bump that ratio up a bit with V2 just to be safe. It's a fair tradeoff for not exceeding the octane needs of the tune. It's just foolish to expect to be able to push the limits of boost and timing and do it on 91octane fuel.

If you want play, you gotta pay

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by GTO2turbos

I'm running the stock compression of 10.9:1 but 8 psi is the safe limit on boost with 91 octane (conservative tune). Beyond that I don't risk it and run straight 101 octane. Which is damn expensive for daily driving (I bought a used civic to do that now).

Which means the GTO sits alot and is only driven on special occasions. And that takes alot of the fun out of it. Just be aware that if you have to use race fuel ($6gal), particularly in such an expensive and nice driving vehicle like a BMW you may not like it.

And for those that want the sponsor to do extreme durability testing (24hr, multiple day dyno, etc) HE is NOT BMW and does not have the resources to do this kind of testing. This is the high performance aftermarket, not auto manufacturing. When you start modifying cars you WILL break them at some point and that's the risk you take.

Personally, I believe the engine is fully capable of handling the added boost as long as you don't exceed the octane requirements. The transmission is probably a different story.

One of the guys I work with has GTO that runs 14psi of boost (SC) with just a thicker head gasket to lower compression. It's still fairly high though, probably right around what ours is. He's been making around 750chp on the stock bottom end for about 3 years now. Finally after god knows how many passes down the strip and daily driving it blew the head gasket out between two of the cylinders, that is the first engine problem he's had .

He did happen to break the rear end and few other things along the way though.

Also with control of Vanos you could tweak the LSA angle and decrease or increase cylinder pressure if you wanted to.

[Eberhard]

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

WTF does this have to do with anything we are talking about?

I suppose I was trying to show what power levels mass produced internal combustion engines in current production vehicles were producing in terms of hp/liter. Looking back, I believe the post was indeed off topic and hereby apologize,

And to HyperM3 - perhaps you missed the word "theoretically" which prefaced the sentance you referred to.

Sincerely,

Eberhard

[GTO2turbos]

The LSx motors are very durable and I'm making about double what it came with stock. But, it's a ticking time bomb and if I lose a piston it will take out a turbo. Just one bad tank of gas and it'd blow sky high (on boost). It really needs a forged bottom end. It's never ending money wise!

[Walked U]

Originally Posted by GTO2turbos

I'm running the stock compression of 10.9:1 but 8 psi is the safe limit on boost with 91 octane (conservative tune).

Ahhh sorry I meant 11:1

But ya if you want to get super tech 10.9:1

[Garissimo]

Originally Posted by GTO2turbos

I'm running the stock compression of 10.9:1 but 8 psi is the safe limit on boost with 91 octane (conservative tune). Beyond that I don't risk it and run straight 101 octane. Which is damn expensive for daily driving (I bought a used civic to do that now).

Which means the GTO sits alot and is only driven on special occasions. And that takes alot of the fun out of it. Just be aware that if you have to use race fuel ($6gal), particularly in such an expensive and nice driving vehicle like a BMW you may not like it.

And for those that want the sponsor to do extreme durability testing (24hr, multiple day dyno, etc) HE is NOT BMW and does not have the resources to do this kind of testing. This is the high performance aftermarket, not auto manufacturing. When you start modifying cars you WILL break them at some point and that's the risk you take.

Personally, I believe the engine is fully capable of handling the added boost as long as you don't exceed the octane requirements. The transmission is probably a different story.

All good points. And unless I missed something, I don't see where Vishnu is advertising this new 400whp race gas tune as a perfectly safe, daily driver type mod. It looks like they're (a) trying to see the limits of the fuel system and (b) responding to those 1/4 mile junkies who were crying for a race gas map.

[normtrum]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

All good points. And unless I missed something, I don't see where Vishnu is advertising this new 400whp race gas tune as a perfectly safe, daily driver type mod. It looks like they're (a) trying to see the limits of the fuel system and (b) responding to those 1/4 mile junkies who were crying for a race gas map.

Well you did miss something on the first half of your comment....shiv never said amything about this being "perfectly safe, daily driver mod", and he certainly wasn't "advertising" anything.

Now the second part of your post seems right on, I think this might be a future race gas map. In his op he simply stated that "this is what the car is capable of", or something to that effect.

[GTO2turbos]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

All good points. And unless I missed something, I don't see where Vishnu is advertising this new 400whp race gas tune as a perfectly safe, daily driver type mod. It looks like they're (a) trying to see the limits of the fuel system and (b) responding to those 1/4 mile junkies who were crying for a race gas map.

There appears to be a fair amount of owners here that aren't your typical "gear heads" like over at LS1tech, etc. So I'm just trying to get across to everyone a realistic idea of what they're up against before some get all starry eyed and buy something they can't handle.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by GTO2turbos

There appears to be a fair amount of owners here that aren't your typical "gear heads" like over at LS1tech, etc.

What?? I thought the majority here have pulled a head or at least engine or two.

[Tuned335i]

Originally Posted by scalbert

What?? I thought the majority here have pulled a head or at least engine or two.

Good one...