[JupiterBMW]

Great points by all of you. Its good to read some of the history on pricing. It is as is with any car though... The M-sport cars are going to bring more. the RWD will bring more than the AWD (in 9 out of 10 cases at least), and the MT will bring more than the AT. That is no different than it is with a sedan, 5 series, 4 series, etc etc..

I think overall though, as the cars continue to get snapped up by enthusiasts that will forever keep them, then the overall E91 market will hold, maybe even raise a little, at least for the premium versions.

I'm new to the E91 market, but I look at cars every day, check every site and every Craigslist every day. I feel like I have a decent grasp on the market, of course, there are always the random private owner or BaT auction to completely throw a wrench in the "average/reasonable" price index...

After all is said and done, I just want a car! I want what most of you would consider the boring one that isn't worth anything. Don't need sport, don't need MT... I would like RWD though.

[JupiterBMW]

Originally Posted by E91WAG3N

AWD is less rare and less desirable for those of us without snow, in my view.

30 is the number I'd place on it based on comp sales of vehicles I see as less desirable, i.e. the recent BAT sale with higher miles, no sport package, x-Drive, etc. I've only seen one other 6MT/RWD/ZMP for sale in the last year which the LeMans Blue with lower miles at EAG for $40k. Mine has no paintwork or stories, no rust, etc.

I bought my Sport Package automatic for less than $10k. There isn't an added $20k worth of value between my two cars. They both have the same trunk, same sports seats, same engine. The rarity is what drives the higher price. There is a much lower cost of entry if you want all the M Sport bits and don't mind buying and painting some bumpers and swapping in a headliner.

All that said, I'm not looking to sell. I'm looking to add to my stable, not remove from!

Out of sheer curiosity, tell me about your E91 that you'd potentially consider trading for an E90 M3... And tell me about the E90 M3 that you'd want to trade for...

[E91WAG3N]

Originally Posted by JDNY516

As much as I love EAG crop of vehicles in their inventory on an annual basis, I wouldn't say they are the market value. I totally understand "what the market will bear" and what someone is willing to pay (premium). But I wouldn't use there $40k example as a real data point, if anything it's an outlier. I would consider BaT sales to be more indicative of the market value. I haven't been following them on BaT, but good information to know. The one I am tracking is LeMans Blue/Black, 54k miles, 6MT, AWD, MSport. In my opinion I wouldn't pay $30k for it, but maybe that's what the seller would want to let it go. I paid nearly half that for my E90 M3 with every service record since mile 1.

Agreed that BaT is a much better indicator of the market. The EAG car is the only data point for a RWD unicorn spec in the last year though. If you search BaT, there were a few that changed hands for mid-20s 2-3 years ago.

There was a LeMans on Saddle in the exact specs as the car you’re describing that was listed in Seattle or Portland for $30k a year or two ago and it sold in 24 hours.

The current real world value for a RWD unicorn has to lay somewhere between $20k and $40k. $20k I see as the base for a moderate mileage 6MT and $40k is the cap. I’d value the EAG car at $35k and mine at $30k given the mileage difference. Again, not looking to sell but if one comparable to mine popped up, that’s what I’d expect it to sell for.

I love these cars but it’s ridiculous what they sell for. The exact same car in coupe or sedan form goes for way less. The nice part is that you can buy one, drive and maintain if for a year and sell it without losing a dime. It’s a fun market to watch! I love driving both my cars, dailying the automatic through bumper to bumper traffic and saving the 6MT for off-rush hour drives.

[JDAURIA]

Reminds me of the E39 M5 craze. I miss mine but was made an offer I couldn't refuse

[E91WAG3N]

Originally Posted by JupiterBMW

Out of sheer curiosity, tell me about your E91 that you'd potentially consider trading for an E90 M3... And tell me about the E90 M3 that you'd want to trade for...

E90 Alpine on cloth 6MT single hump dash with sicktop, rod bearing service complete. 90% chance I’d keep my E91 if presented the scenario 😎

1M in VO, no nav, manual seats. Plenty of these trading hands, once I have space I’ll pick one up.

I had to order my E92 335i to get the specs I wanted and had to search far and wide to get my E91 and previous E82 spec’ed how I want.

I admit that I’m a spec sheet whore. Life has become much more difficult in the post E36 days! 😂😂😂 Hoping I can find the right F31 this year.

[E91WAG3N]

Originally Posted by JDNY516

Reminds me of the E39 M5 craze. I miss mine but was made an offer I couldn't refuse

Same sh1t, different flavor. It’s just a piece of metal at the end of the day. Porsche enthusiasts are twice as bonkers with this sort of thing.

[dwlachowicz]

Originally Posted by E91WAG3N

E90 Alpine on cloth 6MT single hump dash with sicktop, rod bearing service complete. 90% chance I’d keep my E91 if presented the scenario 😎

Interesting to hear you want an E90. I've been on the fence about one for a while, always thought adding it to the stable would be nice, but also felt that it would be to similar in certain aspects to the E91.

I feel like I would want something different at the end of the day...Euro E36 or E46 or 996 911.

[vilord]

Being an E91 owner, and one who just bought one a month after my last one was wrecked, I do understand wanting these cars... but I don't really understand wanting 2 or 3 of them.
I feel like in an ideal world, I'd have an E91 N55 (or N54) with a DCT (or an alpina b3 e91), and a Z4 (or Z8) vert... or maybe an S5... Why have 2 of the same thing?

(I also currently own a chevy pickup, an mk1 TT, a suzuki motorcycle, and a suzuki samurai, so i do kinda like variety)

[rjaudi]

Originally Posted by E91WAG3N

Agreed that BaT is a much better indicator of the market. The EAG car is the only data point for a RWD unicorn spec in the last year though. If you search BaT, there were a few that changed hands for mid-20s 2-3 years ago.

There was a LeMans on Saddle in the exact specs as the car you’re describing that was listed in Seattle or Portland for $30k a year or two ago and it sold in 24 hours.

The current real world value for a RWD unicorn has to lay somewhere between $20k and $40k. $20k I see as the base for a moderate mileage 6MT and $40k is the cap. I’d value the EAG car at $35k and mine at $30k given the mileage difference. Again, not looking to sell but if one comparable to mine popped up, that’s what I’d expect it to sell for.

I love these cars but it’s ridiculous what they sell for. The exact same car in coupe or sedan form goes for way less. The nice part is that you can buy one, drive and maintain if for a year and sell it without losing a dime. It’s a fun market to watch! I love driving both my cars, dailying the automatic through bumper to bumper traffic and saving the 6MT for off-rush hour drives.

I guess I really screwed up by not buying the last 6MT RWD M-sport that came up for sale back in September. That car was traded into a BMW in Northern Virginia, White on Black with 83k miles. I passed because I didn't like the fact that it had no options. It sold for 16,750.

[E91WAG3N]

Originally Posted by dwlachowicz

Interesting to hear you want an E90. I've been on the fence about one for a while, always thought adding it to the stable would be nice, but also felt that it would be to similar in certain aspects to the E91.

I feel like I would want something different at the end of the day...Euro E36 or E46 or 996 911.

E90 is something I'd replace an E91 with potentially. Don't think I'd own both at the same time. I def would like an E36 wagon someday, I miss having an E36 as I spend the better part of 2 decades with that platform.

Originally Posted by vilord

Being an E91 owner, and one who just bought one a month after my last one was wrecked, I do understand wanting these cars... but I don't really understand wanting 2 or 3 of them.
I feel like in an ideal world, I'd have an E91 N55 (or N54) with a DCT (or an alpina b3 e91), and a Z4 (or Z8) vert... or maybe an S5... Why have 2 of the same thing?

(I also currently own a chevy pickup, an mk1 TT, a suzuki motorcycle, and a suzuki samurai, so i do kinda like variety)

I bought the 6MT for me, when my wife's lease ended we bought the second E91 because she liked mine so much. She's a stay at home mom and doesn't use a car most days of the week so I take it to work most of the time. We use it as our family hauler as well. I typically take my 6MT out for Sunday morning drives or quick runs to the grocery store or whatever. It gets around 500 miles a month vs. 1,000+ for the automatic.

We're looking to add an F31 to handle the kid hauling duties now that they're getting older and need more space and are starting school (SAY NO TO SUVs!). I'll keep the auto E91 and continue to use it to drive to work and keep the 6MT for spirited drives, filling the role of E36s I've had. This is the first time I've only had 2 cars in a long time. I've typically had a daily, a 'fun/project' car, and my wife has her car. Current life situation has allowed us to get away with blending a daily for me and her car into one vehicle.

[E91WAG3N]

Originally Posted by rjaudi

I guess I really screwed up by not buying the last 6MT RWD M-sport that came up for sale back in September. That car was traded into a BMW in Northern Virginia, White on Black with 83k miles. I passed because I didn't like the fact that it had no options. It sold for 16,750.

Dannnnnnnng.

I could live without xenons at that price.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by JDNY516

Reminds me of the E39 M5 craze. I miss mine but was made an offer I couldn't refuse

Definitely. It's probable that ultra-low mileage RWD 6MT ZSP or Msports are top ticking in this market. When bidders voices are strained to the max you wait...when more and more bidders show up frantically screaming what seem like crazy bids, you sell, and sell and sell and never look back.

I had my garage queen E39 M5 for 15 years, but I sold into the frenzy 18 months ago on BaT. I was happy with $34k ($35,700 buy side) for my 66k mile example. My buyer enjoyed the car for a year then resold it on BaT for a bit more. The E39 M5 market flattened in the last 9 months, and something like 9 out of that last 11 on BaT have gone RNM.

I would wager cars like the E39 M5 are far more valuable very long term than a rather mundane low hp car like an E91. It's getting out time for those that want out.

[E91WAG3N]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Definitely. It's probable that ultra-low mileage RWD 6MT ZSP or Msports are top ticking in this market. When bidders voices are strained to the max you wait...when more and more bidders show up frantically screaming what seem like crazy bids, you sell, and sell and sell and never look back.

I had my garage queen E39 M5 for 15 years, but I sold into the frenzy 18 months ago on BaT. I was happy with $34k ($35,700 buy side) for my 66k mile example. My buyer enjoyed the car for a year then resold it on BaT for a bit more. The E39 M5 market flattened in the last 9 months, and something like 9 out of that last 11 on BaT have gone RNM.

I would wager cars like the E39 M5 are far more valuable very long term than a rather mundane low hp car like an E91. It's getting out time for those that want out.

100% agreed. This car is a keeper, I'm on track to eclipse my 8 year and 10 year marks with two previous E36s. I bought it because I like it, not because it's an investment. I had an E92 and E82 in the same spec.

Glad to hear your experience on cashing out. What'd you end up replacing it with, if anything? I worked at the dealership in the golden modern era (2001-2005) and had a chance to drive countless cars of that time: E46, E39, E38, etc.. I still yearn for something from that era but haven't pulled the trigger on anything. E9x feels close enough in spirit where the F generation cars feel nothing like the golden age.

Love the discussion here!

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by E91WAG3N

100% agreed. This car is a keeper, I'm on track to eclipse my 8 year and 10 year marks with two previous E36s. I bought it because I like it, not because it's an investment. I had an E92 and E82 in the same spec.

Glad to hear your experience on cashing out. What'd you end up replacing it with, if anything? I worked at the dealership in the golden modern era (2001-2005) and had a chance to drive countless cars of that time: E46, E39, E38, etc.. I still yearn for something from that era but haven't pulled the trigger on anything. E9x feels close enough in spirit where the F generation cars feel nothing like the golden age.

Love the discussion here!

We bought an M2 Competition after selling the M5 and E90 330i (6MT, ZSP, ordered it new too). The E90 M3 is staying put for now -- just too much fun to own these two cars. The E91 is used for anything and everything you wouldn't want to take the other two to do.

[86Zed]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

We bought an M2 Competition after selling the M5 and E90 330i (6MT, ZSP, ordered it new too). The E90 M3 is staying put for now -- just too much fun to own these two cars. The E91 is used for anything and everything you wouldn't want to take the other two to do.

Perhaps that explains the huge spectrum of buyers/sellers of the wagon platform. For those seeking a workhorse hauler, sacrificing a choice option or two for an extra $K towards maintenance is a no-brainer.

As the price approaches $30K it enters E90 M3 territory for a enthusiast DD option and an even wider array of options for a fun weekend car. Great car, great utility but my Z4M coupe is another world of involvement and fun. To each their own.

[Inglewood]

Originally Posted by rjaudi

I guess I really screwed up by not buying the last 6MT RWD M-sport that came up for sale back in September. That car was traded into a BMW in Northern Virginia, White on Black with 83k miles. I passed because I didn't like the fact that it had no options. It sold for 16,750.

That is a steal in hindsight. I am sure it sold same day it was listed. I guess that is the only way to get these for a decent price anymore - someone unknowingly trades into a dealer instead of selling PP to save the hassle and just get into something new same day...dealer looks at KBB values and hopefully nobody at the dealership knows the rarity.

I have owned two e91 manual M-sports - both X-drive and both mint and low miles. Sold both years ago for 35 and 36k respectively, which, at the time for cars with mileage in the 30's, was not astronomical. EAG contacted me, but I explained that I knew the value and was not willing to sell for a lower price to contribute to their margin.

In both cases, I replaced with an e90 M3...the S65 bug bites and there is no substitute. Problem is, you miss the rarity and versatility (plus low maintenance) of the e91. One of each would be the perfect stable, but the wife doesn't want to drive stick and insists on a larger SUV.

There is a guy on IG in Ohio who has a LMB e91 and is doing a complete M3 conversion, including swapping an AT for a 6MT. Bravo! Maybe he's on here...not sure? With donor car and labor, I am sure he's probably well into the 60k price point if I had to guess...

[cyow5]

Originally Posted by rjaudi

I guess I really screwed up by not buying the last 6MT RWD M-sport that came up for sale back in September. That car was traded into a BMW in Northern Virginia, White on Black with 83k miles. I passed because I didn't like the fact that it had no options. It sold for 16,750.

I just moved from northern Virginia, too, haha

[BlueM3Wagon]

Originally Posted by Inglewood

That is a steal in hindsight. I am sure it sold same day it was listed. I guess that is the only way to get these for a decent price anymore - someone unknowingly trades into a dealer instead of selling PP to save the hassle and just get into something new same day...dealer looks at KBB values and hopefully nobody at the dealership knows the rarity.

I have owned two e91 manual M-sports - both X-drive and both mint and low miles. Sold both years ago for 35 and 36k respectively, which, at the time for cars with mileage in the 30's, was not astronomical. EAG contacted me, but I explained that I knew the value and was not willing to sell for a lower price to contribute to their margin.

In both cases, I replaced with an e90 M3...the S65 bug bites and there is no substitute. Problem is, you miss the rarity and versatility (plus low maintenance) of the e91. One of each would be the perfect stable, but the wife doesn't want to drive stick and insists on a larger SUV.

There is a guy on IG in Ohio who has a LMB e91 and is doing a complete M3 conversion, including swapping an AT for a 6MT. Bravo! Maybe he's on here...not sure? With donor car and labor, I am sure he's probably well into the 60k price point if I had to guess...

Hey I'm here! Here a 60k foot overview. Bought an e91 3 years ago when I had twins on the way (wasn't doing a van) it was a loaded 30k mile garage queen in Deep Sea Blue. Thought I could live with the limited power of the N52, but eventually got really bored with it. I first put all OEM M Sport parts on, creating a true M Sport without the VIN/factory designation. Loved it more, but not enough. I was quickly inspired by what guys in the U.K. were doing with their e91 M3 conversions and saw some guys in the US where building theirs as well. My decision was made. My initial thought was to find an e90 M3 donor with most the interior/exterior parts I needed. But after 6 months I realized its an almost impossible task due to abused cars, shady sellers and outrageous salvage/copart prices. So I kept my eyes on the forums and market places. I've been able to pick up parts at a surprisingly reasonable cost over the last year or so being patient. I put together 90% of the exterior conversion and 100% of the interior conversion through sourcing parts only. All while trying to purchase a donor for the drivetrain/driveline. I had 5 M3s slip through my fingers either because of shady sellers, copart scams or inspections that proved more damage than listed. Finally an e92 M3 popped up in my city on copart and the stars aligned. 78k miles, manual, found the owner before auction and verified immaculate service history from a 68 year old women driver. The car was a no start on the lot but due only to a blown BST cable. No power and typically bidders run. I got the car for a steal! Now I'm in the process of flipping parts I don't need and having mad1stgen do the swap. This guy has been an invaluable resource to me, and might be the most knowledgeable e91 gear-heads out there. He's done a dozen (?) n54 swapped e91s already so I feel fully confident we'll get this done without a hitch. Like you unicorn owners, I don't ever think I will sell this car. It literally might be the perfect car never made. If anyone is interested in following the build, I'll keep things posted on Instagram under BlueM3Wagon.

[JDAURIA]

Another find: https://www.iautohaus1.com/auto/used...m-wa/39630951/

2011, BSM, Black, AT, 70k, Single hump, Washington State

[JDAURIA]

Okay someone can thank me:

https://www.michsforeigncars.com/det...8ba542651.html

2011 MSPORT, BSM, Beige, 108k miles, AT, AWD, PDC, CAS, no heated seats

Actually looks to be in really good condition.

[dwlachowicz]

For me I always wanted a wagon, though had certain requirements. Wanted either RWD or AWD and prefferably a manual. Loved the VW Sportwagens but was tired of FWD. Had my sights set on a Volvo V70 R or V60 R Design, ideally a V60 Polestar, but they were new and prices were at $70k+. I knew manual E91's existed but quite difficult to find, especially locally.

I've tossed the idea around of doing a N54 or S65 swap everyday, tough to make the decision knowing the unicorn status of my car. Figure I'll keep it the way it is, do some minor mods (3SI, Coilovers & M3 bits) and get a dedicated weekend toy. Awesome seeing this community as alive as it is and the discussions are fun too!

Definitely great seeing E91s on the road let alone M-Sports and Manuals

[dwlachowicz]

Originally Posted by JDNY516

Okay someone can thank me:

https://www.michsforeigncars.com/det...8ba542651.html

2011 MSPORT, BSM, Beige, 108k miles, AT, AWD

Actually looks to be in really good condition.

Damn I want those rear window shades!! Nice find and the price is right I think, even though AT & AWD.