[sturgeongeneral]

Originally Posted by jtran

Has anyone done a MT swap on these cars? I assume that a RWD car would need a RWD transmission and so forth with an xDrive. But what about LCI/Pre-LCI? Could you fit a Pre-LCI 325i/330i into a LCI car? It's probably a lot more a hassle then it sounds.

I had a swap done on mine. Used a 330i trans for my 2010. There were a couple of minor issues that arose from that, but they were easy to get around. The wiring was the trickiest part. Been around 9 months now with no issues. I'm very glad I did because it really transformed the car.

[ppointer]

Originally Posted by sturgeongeneral

I had a swap done on mine. Used a 330i trans for my 2010. There were a couple of minor issues that arose from that, but they were easy to get around. The wiring was the trickiest part. Been around 9 months now with no issues. I'm very glad I did because it really transformed the car.

Can you put together a complete write up on this project? Several of us here would find it very enlightening!

[NinetyEight740]

Originally Posted by Inglewood

The last e91 with 328xi badging on the back were 2008 and prior from my understanding. All with LCI refresh 2009-2012 will say 328i and have the X-drive badge on the quarter under the side turn signal marker...unless de-badged.

Incorrect. My 2010 has xdrive on the fenders and also 328xi badged on the trunklid.

[sturgeongeneral]

Originally Posted by ppointer

Can you put together a complete write up on this project? Several of us here would find it very enlightening!

I plan to. I'm mainly waiting to complete the cosmetic mods before I do. I'll leave the technical details to my friend who performed the swap.

[328i]

Originally Posted by tailendcharlie

A mid-mileage Automatic from a snowbelt state......13k.

So realistically - can you even find a shop willing to do a manual swap?
For a manual swap on a RWD - assuming you find a shop to do it - how much $ are we talking?

It depends on the competence of the shop and the extent you want to go through to make it all original. I did this swap for a friend of mine and broke it down in another thread. I will copy the parts portion to give you an idea. I would figure about $2-3k for the work if you're just doing the swap. As for the parts, see my list below.

Originally Posted by cyow5

There are some threads on here that break down the parts list, but my biggest hesitation to looking at that option is resale. If the trend continues, prices on an OE 6MT will be bulletproof, but swaps tend to get less money, so you're looking at less than you put in, certainly if you pay labor to do it. Might as well pay a premium for the OE car, continuing the cycle of crazy prices.

With the prices a manual wagon goes for and how quick they sell, a swap is worth it if you like the car save for the trans. If done right there is absolutely no difference between a swapped car and a manual car.

The shifter opening is already there from the factory, the brake reservoir is used for the clutch and is simply capped off, and the shifter carrier mount is already there on the body, etc. The manual trans harness simply replaces the auto trans one.

Save for a vin decoder you can not tell the car is swapped and everything functions as it should. Sure it might fetch less than an all orignal car all things equal, but I can tell you from the E46 M3 world, which I'm very familiar with (I swapped quite a few of those), the resale is much higher than an auto and slightly less than a factory manual.

Let's also not forget that for most enthusiasts the purpose of a manual wagon is to have a practical car that's still fun to drive, not one to collect/park and admire the build sheet. Everyone is different, I personally cannot see paying some of these premiums for these examples if I could build the same thing and keep $5-10k in my pocket.

Originally Posted by ppointer

Can you put together a complete write up on this project? Several of us here would find it very enlightening!

I'm the one who did the swap on sturgeon_general ;'s car.

I did reference the 335i manual swap thread someone here created to get an idea of what I was getting myself into, but it's pretty straightforward. We had a lot of headaches due to a one off trans/driveshaft that needed some different parts to work with the 330i. As a result he has a bit more stout trans, but for most people it's overkill and over complicates the process.

Basically it comes down to needing the following:

• Manual transmission, driveshaft and mounting bracket for the trans.
• Shifter carrier and shifter assembly, shift boot and knob.
• Clutch and flywheel and associated hardware.
• Clutch lines, manual clutch pedal setup (replaced as an assembly since the brake pedal is smaller), slave cylinder and master cylinder and clutch switch.
• Manual transmission wiring harness - we did this as we wanted the install to be clean and OEM. You can get around this if you find a reverse switch connector and simply make your own harness, running one wire to a ground and the other to the footwell module. One modification needed is to connect the can bus wires to close the loop after you remove the auto trans harness. This is at the DME box.
• Cooling system parts - you could just remove the auto trans cooling components and cap the, but once again our goal here was a complete OEM install. REAL-OEM is great for this. I basically looked at the parts diagrams and found which parts are different between auto and manual.
  Off the top of my head this included a new radiator, new coolant hoses, new coolant pipe at the block and I believe that was it. Since I was removing hoses from it anyway, we replaced the thermostat as well, preventively.

Optional is a manual diff, but we kept the auto one for the lower ratio to give the car a bit more pep.

And that's really it as far as parts. Of course we also changed any wear items such as the throwout bearing tube, motor mounts, trans mounts, clutch and slave cylinders with new ones, etc.

Besides the reverse switch wiring, you also need to wire in the clutch switch which is 4 pins:

Pin 1- is a ground i wired it to the brake switch ground I believe.
Pin 2- goes to DME X60001 pin 18
Pin 3- goes to CAS Pin 3
Pin 4- goes to CAS pin 41

After that you need to codes the car and you're set. To code it you simply remove the auto trans option code from the VO in the FRM and CAS, write the new VO to the FRM and CAS and then code to default values in all the pertinent modules. Off the top of my head it was the DME(or something the controls the dme the module name slips my mind), DSC module, CAS module, cluster, and that was it I believe. I believe I may have coded the PDC module as well, although I'm not sure it was needed. But with the correct VO you can really code all the modules with no ill effects.

Once that is complete the car functions 100% as a factory manual car, start off assistant works (holds brakes for two seconds on a hill), cruise control works, PDC works, etc.

Hope that helps!

[jtran]

I guess it wouldn't hurt to buy a cheap 6MT 2007-2012 328i sedan/coupe and just part out the rest to make some money back. Thanks for the info!

[ppointer]

Originally Posted by 328i

I'm the one who did the swap on sturgeon_general ;'s car.

I did reference the 335i manual swap thread someone here created to get an idea of what I was getting myself into, but it's pretty straightforward. We had a lot of headaches due to a one off trans/driveshaft that needed some different parts to work with the 330i. As a result he has a bit more stout trans, but for most people it's overkill and over complicates the process.

Basically it comes down to needing the following:

• Manual transmission, driveshaft and mounting bracket for the trans.
• Shifter carrier and shifter assembly, shift boot and knob.
• Clutch and flywheel and associated hardware.
• Clutch lines, manual clutch pedal setup (replaced as an assembly since the brake pedal is smaller), slave cylinder and master cylinder and clutch switch.
• Manual transmission wiring harness - we did this as we wanted the install to be clean and OEM. You can get around this if you find a reverse switch connector and simply make your own harness, running one wire to a ground and the other to the footwell module. One modification needed is to connect the can bus wires to close the loop after you remove the auto trans harness. This is at the DME box.
• Cooling system parts - you could just remove the auto trans cooling components and cap the, but once again our goal here was a complete OEM install. REAL-OEM is great for this. I basically looked at the parts diagrams and found which parts are different between auto and manual.
  Off the top of my head this included a new radiator, new coolant hoses, new coolant pipe at the block and I believe that was it. Since I was removing hoses from it anyway, we replaced the thermostat as well, preventively.

And that's really it as far as parts. Of course we also changed any wear items such as the throwout bearing tube, motor mounts, trans mounts, clutch and slave cylinders with new ones, etc.

Besides the reverse switch wiring, you also need to wire in the clutch switch which is 4 pins:

Pin 1- is a ground i wired it to the brake switch ground I believe.
Pin 2- goes to DME X60001 pin 18
Pin 3- goes to CAS Pin 3
Pin 4- goes to CAS pin 41

After that you need to codes the car and you're set. To code it you simply remove the auto trans option code from the VO in the FRM and CAS, write the new VO to the FRM and CAS and then code to default values in all the pertinent modules. Off the top of my head it was the DME(or something the controls the dme the module name slips my mind), DSC module, CAS module, cluster, and that was it I believe. I believe I may have coded the PDC module as well, although I'm not sure it was needed. But with the correct VO you can really code all the modules with no ill effects.

Once that is complete the car functions 100% as a factory manual car, start off assistant works (holds brakes for two seconds on a hill), cruise control works, PDC works, etc.

Hope that helps!

Very thorough. Thank you for putting this together. Did anything needed to be done about the "kick down" capability of the gas pedal? I read elsewhere in this thread there is extra voltage coming from the gas pedal for auto-equipped cars....

[328i]

Originally Posted by jtran

I guess it wouldn't hurt to buy a cheap 6MT 2007-2012 328i sedan/coupe and just part out the rest to make some money back. Thanks for the info!

No need for that, way more work than it's worth. The transmissions are fairly inexpensive and readily available, same with the drive shafts. Pedals will work from any e9x, etc.

Originally Posted by ppointer

Very thorough. Thank you for putting this together. Did anything needed to be done about the "kick down" capability of the gas pedal? I read elsewhere in this thread there is extra voltage coming from the gas pedal for auto-equipped cars....

Glad you mentioned this as I forgot, on some other cars the kickdown is internal so it's harder to remove it, luckily on these it's not. The "kickdown" was removed by simply removing a metal plate on the back of the gas pedal. its bend in a shape for it to act as a spring.

All these cars are drivebywire, so the purpose of the kickdown is just extra resistance for you to feel to know you're pressing the throttle 100%.

[jtran]

Alpine White/Saddle Brown, M-sport, AWD, AT, 111k miles.

Twice as much as I bought mine for sadly.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=265182056

[vilord]

Originally Posted by 328i

No need for that, way more work than it's worth. The transmissions are fairly inexpensive and readily available, same with the drive shafts. Pedals will work from any e9x, etc.



Glad you mentioned this as I forgot, on some other cars the kickdown is internal so it's harder to remove it, luckily on these it's not. The "kickdown" was removed by simply removing a metal plate on the back of the gas pedal. its bend in a shape for it to act as a spring.

All these cars are drivebywire, so the purpose of the kickdown is just extra resistance for you to feel to know you're pressing the throttle 100%.

I'm done pulling the electronics off the 6MT car I'm scrapping. Was not planning to pull engine or transmission, because I don't have a lift and it is snowing outside.

Any idea if it is possible to pull the shifter, pedals, clutch lines, and manual transmission wiring harness without pulling the engine/trans?

[328i]

Originally Posted by vilord

I'm done pulling the electronics off the 6MT car I'm scrapping. Was not planning to pull engine or transmission, because I don't have a lift and it is snowing outside.

Any idea if it is possible to pull the shifter, pedals, clutch lines, and manual transmission wiring harness without pulling the engine/trans?

Yes I believe so. I would remove the exhaust, driveshaft, guibo and the transmission mount. That would let it drop and give you enough room to remove the shifter mechanism. Make sure you take your fan out prior as the engine will tilt back. Also disconnect the clutch line where it meets near the tunnel and you should be able to fish it out once you remove the pedals and disconnect the other end of the line at the clutch master cyl.

Dropping it down should also give you enough room to unclip the harness, it runs over the top of the trans and just has clips holding it to the trans.

The rest is pretty easy and the pedals are easier on the ground anyway.

Ito get the engine and trans out, I would jack it up as high as possible and put it on four jack stands. Then support the engine/trans assembly up top with a engine hoist, drop the subframe, letting it hang by the suspension components. This will give you a lot more space to pull the assembly out. This is how I did it when I had one car on the lift and another car I was taking the drivetrain out of when doing a shell swap.

[8081M]

Originally Posted by 328i

It depends on the competence of the shop and the extent you want to go through to make it all original. I did this swap for a friend of mine and broke it down in another thread. I will copy the parts portion to give you an idea. I would figure about $2-3k for the work if you're just doing the swap. As for the parts, see my list below.




With the prices a manual wagon goes for and how quick they sell, a swap is worth it if you like the car save for the trans. If done right there is absolutely no difference between a swapped car and a manual car.

The shifter opening is already there from the factory, the brake reservoir is used for the clutch and is simply capped off, and the shifter carrier mount is already there on the body, etc. The manual trans harness simply replaces the auto trans one.

Save for a vin decoder you can not tell the car is swapped and everything functions as it should. Sure it might fetch less than an all orignal car all things equal, but I can tell you from the E46 M3 world, which I'm very familiar with (I swapped quite a few of those), the resale is much higher than an auto and slightly less than a factory manual.

Let's also not forget that for most enthusiasts the purpose of a manual wagon is to have a practical car that's still fun to drive, not one to collect/park and admire the build sheet. Everyone is different, I personally cannot see paying some of these premiums for these examples if I could build the same thing and keep $5-10k in my pocket.




I'm the one who did the swap on sturgeon_general ;'s car.

I did reference the 335i manual swap thread someone here created to get an idea of what I was getting myself into, but it's pretty straightforward. We had a lot of headaches due to a one off trans/driveshaft that needed some different parts to work with the 330i. As a result he has a bit more stout trans, but for most people it's overkill and over complicates the process.

Basically it comes down to needing the following:

• Manual transmission, driveshaft and mounting bracket for the trans.
• Shifter carrier and shifter assembly, shift boot and knob.
• Clutch and flywheel and associated hardware.
• Clutch lines, manual clutch pedal setup (replaced as an assembly since the brake pedal is smaller), slave cylinder and master cylinder and clutch switch.
• Manual transmission wiring harness - we did this as we wanted the install to be clean and OEM. You can get around this if you find a reverse switch connector and simply make your own harness, running one wire to a ground and the other to the footwell module. One modification needed is to connect the can bus wires to close the loop after you remove the auto trans harness. This is at the DME box.
• Cooling system parts - you could just remove the auto trans cooling components and cap the, but once again our goal here was a complete OEM install. REAL-OEM is great for this. I basically looked at the parts diagrams and found which parts are different between auto and manual.
  Off the top of my head this included a new radiator, new coolant hoses, new coolant pipe at the block and I believe that was it. Since I was removing hoses from it anyway, we replaced the thermostat as well, preventively.

And that's really it as far as parts. Of course we also changed any wear items such as the throwout bearing tube, motor mounts, trans mounts, clutch and slave cylinders with new ones, etc.

Besides the reverse switch wiring, you also need to wire in the clutch switch which is 4 pins:

Pin 1- is a ground i wired it to the brake switch ground I believe.
Pin 2- goes to DME X60001 pin 18
Pin 3- goes to CAS Pin 3
Pin 4- goes to CAS pin 41

After that you need to codes the car and you're set. To code it you simply remove the auto trans option code from the VO in the FRM and CAS, write the new VO to the FRM and CAS and then code to default values in all the pertinent modules. Off the top of my head it was the DME(or something the controls the dme the module name slips my mind), DSC module, CAS module, cluster, and that was it I believe. I believe I may have coded the PDC module as well, although I'm not sure it was needed. But with the correct VO you can really code all the modules with no ill effects.

Once that is complete the car functions 100% as a factory manual car, start off assistant works (holds brakes for two seconds on a hill), cruise control works, PDC works, etc.

Hope that helps!

Fantastic summary. Was the original automatic differential used?

[ppointer]

Originally Posted by vilord

I'm done pulling the electronics off the 6MT car I'm scrapping. Was not planning to pull engine or transmission, because I don't have a lift and it is snowing outside.

Any idea if it is possible to pull the shifter, pedals, clutch lines, and manual transmission wiring harness without pulling the engine/trans?

You going to sell that tranny?

[sturgeongeneral]

Originally Posted by 8081M

Fantastic summary. Was the original automatic differential used?

It was. Might throw an LSD in down the road.

[328i]

Originally Posted by 8081M

Fantastic summary. Was the original automatic differential used?

Oh yes, this is another variable I forgot to mention. We did keep the auto diff as it's a lower ratio so it gave the car a bit more pep. Besides the diff we also did headers, 3 stage manifold and a tune, making the car very fun.

[E91WAG3N]

Originally Posted by 328i

Oh yes, this is another variable I forgot to mention. We did keep the auto diff as it's a lower ratio so it gave the car a bit more pep. Besides the diff we also did headers, 3 stage manifold and a tune, making the car very fun.

How's the freeway drive-ability with the auto ratio? I've been considering swapping an auto diff into my 6mt car. Almost pulled the trigger on that swap for my E82 128i but sold the car before I got around to it. Was going to do the OEM finned diff cover from a 5 series(?) as well.

[328i]

Originally Posted by E91WAG3N

How's the freeway drive-ability with the auto ratio? I've been considering swapping an auto diff into my 6mt car. Almost pulled the trigger on that swap for my E82 128i but sold the car before I got around to it. Was going to do the OEM finned diff cover from a 5 series(?) as well.

I found it perfectly acceptable, and it's worth the performance gain imo. I'll let sturgeon_general chime in with his opinion though, it's his car so he has much more time behind the wheel.

For what it's worth I'm about to manual swap my e60 535i and plan on keeping the auto diff as well.


If anyone local to NJ is interested in a swap and can't find a trusted shop to do it, feel free to reach out, I do work for other enthusiasts in my free time.

[ppointer]

Originally Posted by 328i

If anyone local to NJ is interested in a swap and can't find a trusted shop to do it, feel free to reach out, I do work for other enthusiasts in my free time.

Good to know. I may reach out later this year....

[sturgeongeneral]

Ditto what @328i said. It's definitely livable and I appreciate the extra pep in the car's step. At 80MPH the revs sit around 3500 in 6th if I remember correctly. I'll get a more accurate read next time I'm behind the wheel.

[8081M]

Originally Posted by 328i

If anyone local to NJ is interested in a swap and can't find a trusted shop to do it, feel free to reach out, I do work for other enthusiasts in my free time.

I'd enlist your services in a heartbeat, but Hawaii is not quite "local" to NJ.

[brunobertolone]

Hi,
Recently I got this warning on my dashboard
Context: I'm in the middle of a snowstorm in Montréal. Could it be related to weather?

[vilord]

Originally Posted by brunobertolone

Hi,
Recently I got this warning on my dashboard
Context: I'm in the middle of a snowstorm in Montréal. Could it be related to weather?

Wrong thread. This is an e91 for sale thread.

To me, that says the car is recommending you drive forwards or backwards, instead of sideways.