[Lane]

I have read that the UT percentages are not supposed to be changed by revs any more. Running 93 oct, 94% UT (+1 rule) should be fine if the logs show e.g. 14.7 psi boost plateau.

[Robertbog]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

how bout dropping the UT values back down to 90% across the board.

Again, like I said, according to the real time PSI gauge in the Procede Reader program, I never exceeded 14 psi at 93% across the board. . . . . . so what do you guys think?

Then you can do 93, possibly a little more across the board, just watch it as you always should, dont redline it either lol.

[Neema]

Originally Posted by Lane

I have read that the UT percentages are not supposed to be changed by revs any more. Running 93 oct, 94% UT (+1 rule) should be fine if the logs show e.g. 14.7 psi boost plateau.

+1 rule? As in whatever octane fuel I run, add one percent UT over it? So 91 octane = 92% and so on?

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by kitw

(My interior is Terra)

But seriously, sorry if I came off sounding harsh, but if you are that worried about it, pull the piggyback. Your UT values make no sense at all. If you don't want to stress the turbos, you could dial them all back to around 30%, but you might as well just pull the PROcede...

Modding a car requires an acceptance of a given level of risk and if you aren't willing to accept that, then it might be time to consider running stock or nearer... Happy to sell you my old JB2!

Sorry, I can't argee. This is true when I would tune the piggyback by myself but it clearly is not when I buy a configured product for the 335i from a tuning company. They should have sorted out and solved the issues already ( that's why I pay them ) and I expect to get a perfect working and reliable solution from such a company - like your "old" JB2 is. This "you have to pay to play" and "only time will tell" is completely BS. A tuner has to know his business or stop to offer tunings for customers. I would not buy any product from a tuner telling me that.

Cheers,
Eugen

[Lane]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

+1 rule? As in whatever octane fuel I run, add one percent UT over it? So 91 octane = 92% and so on?

Yes, that is the rule of thumb given that boost logs do not show psi in excess of 15.

[Neema]

Originally Posted by Lane

Yes, that is the rule of thumb given that boost logs do not show psi in excess of 15.

So I gotta drop to 92% because we dont have better then 91oct fuel in CA, so my setting of 93% probably wasnt a good idea.
Shit, so I need a real boost gauge too then huh? Since the Procede software wont show psi over 15

[Neema]

i have a really slick and cool idea for my boost gauge if i were to get one . . .

[npb]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

So I gotta drop to 92% because we dont have better then 91oct fuel in CA, so my setting of 93% probably wasnt a good idea.
Shit, so I need a real boost gauge too then huh? Since the Procede software wont show psi over 15

101oct:
Laguna Hills
76 Station
25172 Cabot Rd. (near La Paz)

100oct:
Newport Beach
Newport Hills 76
2690 San Miguel Rd.

[Numb3rs]

Originally Posted by trueblue

Simplified Turbo control 101:
MAP sensor reading -> ECU -> Injector Duty
^ |-> Waste Gate --|
|------------------------------------------------------|

This is turbo control in the simplest form. The MAP sensor provide the manifold pressure readings to the ECU, the ecu find the appropriate injector(s) output from the fuel/ignition map for that particular pressure and moves the wastegate to maintain the given pressure.

<snip>

3. "Tuner Boxes" no matter how good is a signal interceptor. By adding an additional electronic device that has to change the intercepted signal WILL add delay to the signal. Someone will probably jump up and down at this point and scream "but it's only milliseconds", let me save you the trouble by just saying the turbo spins over 4000 revs per second, a boost spike happens faster than you can blink. This delay in it self is just a small part of the picture, the whole idea is to "fool" the ecu into thinking everything is still functioning within the designed parameter so in essence everything in the control loop mentioned before has been altered. The ecu no longer sees the real manifold pressure, the output to the wastegate has been altered, the injector duty has been altered. Mathematically it is just changing the in/out signal by altering the intercept (basic trig, Y=mX+b, m=slope, b=intercept). The BIG problem occurs when you consider that making changes to the flow characteristics (as described in 1,2) will cause spike and creep from the STOCK boost level (spinning at STOCK rpm), what do you think the spike and creep will hit when you are boosting at TWICE the stock boost level. This is the reason why ALL high hp tuner cars must use standalone ecu (in most cases are even faster than the stock ecu), NOT piggybacks.


All things mechanical has a MTBF, any moving component (especially something that moves as fast a turbo) will be subject to stress. By making it move faster you WILL increase the stress and reduce the MTBF, this is a giving. SOME People's lack of understanding when it comes to providing the proper support mod for ANY given power mod will send many more of these great cars to the junk yard in the years to come.

+100


Though, I am still waiting to hear from shiv on TrueBlue's #3

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I really appreciate the time you took to write this. However, some of the info that you have provided (especially in point 3) is [unintentionally i'm sure] misleading. I'll elaborate later tonight. Gotta run some errands right now...

Cheers,
shiv

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by kitw

rather than try to run zero boost at 7000rpm, which will be horrendously slow.

That 0% represents stock boost, not zero boost.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by e.n335

This "you have to pay to play" and "only time will tell" is completely BS. A tuner has to know his business or stop to offer tunings for customers. I would not buy any product from a tuner telling me that.

You may not have been told, but to a certain extent, you have purchased from multiple vendors on this basis.

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by scalbert

You may not have been told, but to a certain extent, you have purchased from multiple vendors on this basis.

I have not been told but I am well aware about this since quite a while, so it's time for me to stop buying such products. Spending money for a product which might cause a 15k - 30k US$ repair bill is simply crazy. A part of the tuners revenues should be re-invested in load and stress testing. When somebody earns 500k net profit with a tuning product it's nothing more than normal to test the system limits until something breaks. The 30k this test may be is just a part of the total research costs.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by e.n335

I have not been told but I am well aware about this since quite a while, so it's time for me to stop buying such products. Spending money for a product which might cause a 15k - 30k US$ repair bill is simply crazy. A part of the tuners revenues should be re-invested in load and stress testing. When somebody earns 500k net profit with a tuning product it's nothing more than normal to test the system limits until something breaks. The 30k this test may be is just a part of the total research costs.

My point is that I suspect none of the product you have purchased followed your concept on what should be done. In fact, some have done no empirical testing of affects through external measurement.

Based on what you have defined, OEM may be the only true option for you.

[GeorgiaTech335coupe]

To the poor soul who we are all trying to learn from: Was the only reason the dealership voided your warranty because of the non-stock muffler? Or did they mention that they suspected foul play in the ECU box?

[BALLAJL15]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335coupe

To the poor soul who we are all trying to learn from: Was the only reason the dealership voided your warranty because of the non-stock muffler? Or did they mention that they suspected foul play in the ECU box?

I had no secondaries and a magnaflow muffler.... they said the west coast rep didnt even want to come after finding out it was modded... just said thats what caused the failure a reduction in back pressure.... B.S.!!

[Neema]

Originally Posted by npb

101oct:
Laguna Hills
76 Station
25172 Cabot Rd. (near La Paz)

100oct:
Newport Beach
Newport Hills 76
2690 San Miguel Rd.

Yea I know about both of those stations, but I'm not for spending 10-12 per gallon.

[Neema]

Originally Posted by KenB

The testing of these piggys is anecdotal at best.

It appears that the tuning option that is the most expensive, last to market, and BACKED UP BY IT MANUFACTURER is the one that has had some R&D done with it.

I have never been one to defend Vishnu, but seriously what did people think was going to happen. Shiv may have mailed a grenade to you (at a tidy profit) but the end user is the one who pulled the pin.

dude. . . . . shut up. Dont try to start shit in this thread with BS posts like this one.

[E82tt6]

Originally Posted by e.n335

I have not been told but I am well aware about this since quite a while, so it's time for me to stop buying such products. Spending money for a product which might cause a 15k - 30k US$ repair bill is simply crazy. A part of the tuners revenues should be re-invested in load and stress testing. When somebody earns 500k net profit with a tuning product it's nothing more than normal to test the system limits until something breaks. The 30k this test may be is just a part of the total research costs.

Increased boost=less reliability. You'll never see a tuner do the kind of testing you want, it just isn't possible. No one knows what it will take to pop engines, and the only way to find out is to see several go. No tuner for any manufacturer ever has, or ever will do this testing. BMW does not conduct this level of testing!

I don't mean to sound like a smartass, but what you're suggesting isn't possible. I'd suggest sticking with a completely stock car if you're adamnt about it being 100% backed up. Even BMW doesn't know when something will go wrong, but they're betting big bucks that it will be after the warranty runs out

[Neema]

Originally Posted by KenB

...at least you didn't call me a liar...

know why? Because then you would have to counter my comment by explaining why you think _________ and so on, and then shit would flare up in this thread.

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by E82tt6

Increased boost=less reliability. You'll never see a tuner do the kind of testing you want, it just isn't possible. No one knows what it will take to pop engines, and the only way to find out is to see several go. No tuner for any manufacturer ever has, or ever will do this testing. BMW does not conduct this level of testing!

I don't mean to sound like a smartass, but what you're suggesting isn't possible. I'd suggest sticking with a completely stock car if you're adamnt about it being 100% backed up. Even BMW doesn't know when something will go wrong, but they're betting big bucks that it will be after the warranty runs out

Thanks a lot for your feedback, I read quite some very interesting information from you already. My intention has not been to be 100% backed up, it was to know why tuners still speculate what can be done and what should be avoided. I did not drive a car stock I owned since 8-10 years and I don't plan to do it know . I just expected more R&D, that's all.

Cheers,
Eugen

[Neema]

Alrite, so we need a mid thread summarization for new comers to the thread, and because it's a lot of info to process.

I'd do it, but my knowledge of turbo's and the situation isn't as up to date or informative as the rest of you, like Shiv for example, would know. But I'll try

[BMW_TT]

yeah thread is going a bit off tangent