[hassmaschine]

I think software changes would still help, but seeing how messed up things are even if we did make the changes, we would never really know if they were right.

Looking at Pete's stock cams, there's no real reason that regrinds couldn't work. It just didn't work out in this case. I'd like to see 11mm of lift and another 10-15 degrees of duration which should be feasible. more than that wouldn't actually be very helpful without a compression ratio increase, but when you start doing that the cost goes up exponentially.

Another thing to consider is to retard the stock intake cam an additional 10 degrees (or whatever will work without causing piston/valve issues). I'm thinking a modified cam timing fixture that gets lent out with a custom flash should have some benefits. No real downsides since only a handful of cells in any of the VANOS maps use the full advance range of the intake cam anyway.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

I think software changes would still help, but seeing how messed up things are even if we did make the changes, we would never really know if they were right.

Looking at Pete's stock cams, there's no real reason that regrinds couldn't work. It just didn't work out in this case. I'd like to see 11mm of lift and another 10-15 degrees of duration which should be feasible. more than that wouldn't actually be very helpful without a compression ratio increase, but when you start doing that the cost goes up exponentially.

Another thing to consider is to retard the stock intake cam an additional 10 degrees (or whatever will work without causing piston/valve issues). I'm thinking a modified cam timing fixture that gets lent out with a custom flash should have some benefits. No real downsides since only a handful of cells in any of the VANOS maps use the full advance range of the intake cam anyway.

I figured you would say this

[justpete]

Originally Posted by _Ryan_

Custom flash with the OFT?

Via iterative dyno runs, yes.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I figured you would say this

Do you disagree?

a modified fixture would make it pretty simple. The custom flash would have all of the Vanos settings properly offset. right from the factory, the intake Vanos is already maxed out so you can't gain any more power by retarding the cam.

My main question is how much valve clearance is there? It would probably be further reduced by adding more lift.. I just feel like regrind cams are going to be cost prohibitive for most people. But retiming the intake cam would be a lot less (rental fee/flash, new VC gasket + bolts that you probably need anyway).

[SDemetris]

Originally Posted by justpete

Via iterative dyno runs, yes.

Literally the only way this is going to end well..

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Do you disagree?

a modified fixture would make it pretty simple. The custom flash would have all of the Vanos settings properly offset. right from the factory, the intake Vanos is already maxed out so you can't gain any more power by retarding the cam.

My main question is how much valve clearance is there? It would probably be further reduced by adding more lift.. I just feel like regrind cams are going to be cost prohibitive for most people. But retiming the intake cam would be a lot less (rental fee/flash, new VC gasket + bolts that you probably need anyway).

I don't, but how effective will it be with the stock grind? I wish I knew how to use engine modeling software.

[SDemetris]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I don't, but how effective will it be with the stock grind? I wish I knew how to use engine modeling software.

Like what sort of engine modeling software? For like dyno tuning or simulations? If someone did a bunch of research for me, i could throw it all into excel or matlab to tell if we would get interference or things of that nature.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by SDemetris

Like what sort of engine modeling software? For like dyno tuning or simulations? If someone did a bunch of research for me, i could throw it all into excel or matlab to tell if we would get interference or things of that nature.

Well now, I'll see what I can dig up. hassmaschine ?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by SDemetris

Literally the only way this is going to end well..

Remember though this is planned to be done with factory cams.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

a modified fixture would make it pretty simple. The custom flash would have all of the Vanos settings properly offset. right from the factory, the intake Vanos is already maxed out so you can't gain any more power by retarding the cam.

My main question is how much valve clearance is there? It would probably be further reduced by adding more lift.. I just feel like regrind cams are going to be cost prohibitive for most people. But retiming the intake cam would be a lot less (rental fee/flash, new VC gasket + bolts that you probably need anyway).

It'd definitely be less invasive and thus less risky, not to mention a helluva lot less coin.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I don't, but how effective will it be with the stock grind? I wish I knew how to use engine modeling software.

Would probably help get rid of the torque fall-off at the top end I'm guessing. Doesn't mean much unless winding it out, going to be difficult to pick up low end torque without different lift and duration though. Both retarding the cam and regrinding would be the ideal solution since custom cams aren't available. A race exhaust could then sacrifice some of the newly gained bottom end torque for even more top end power making for a nice track screamer but wouldn't want to go that far for non-track use though.

[hassmaschine]

well, let's put it this way. advance your cam and see how much power you lose. retarding it further won't exactly be the same, but it'll give you a ballpark idea. And it would be relatively cheap - I'm thinking less than the cost of 1 cam (not even counting installation).

with my M20 which had a fixed cam, as little as 5 degrees made a big difference, and I didn't have the luxury of separating the intake/exhaust timing or doing it based on load/RPM. Not to mention an m20 isn't anywhere nearly as efficient as an N52.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

well, let's put it this way. advance your cam and see how much power you lose. retarding it further won't exactly be the same, but it'll give you a ballpark idea. And it would be relatively cheap - I'm thinking less than the cost of 1 cam (not even counting installation).

with my M20 which had a fixed cam, as little as 5 degrees made a big difference, and I didn't have the luxury of separating the intake/exhaust timing or doing it based on load/RPM. Not to mention an m20 isn't anywhere nearly as efficient as an N52.

I'd be willing to test out the modified jig and determine if valve clearance is good to go on my engine since I'm having new factory cams installed eventually. What's your schedule you think?

[hassmaschine]

hoping to pick one up this week. I need to see how it can be modified.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

hoping to pick one up this week. I need to see how it can be modified.

Cool, I'm going to get the new cams installed next week if they have an opening. Gotta get the stock DME rom to Procede first though.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

You might want to contact RMP Motors. They've been racing the N52 for a few years now. Back in 2012 (I don't know what they're making now), they made 279HP at the rear wheels and use both vanos and are controlling them both. They run the engines up to 8500rpm. Of course, this is a race engine, but they may be able to help.

http://www.rmpmotors.com/

I think somebody pointed out at one point that he doesn't do work for others and not cams especially, unfortunately. Thanks though.

[Mike.]

Originally Posted by justpete

Also talking with Procede about a custom dyno tune with the stock cams since Shiv tuned the shop's SCCA turbo car which runs a stock DME.

wow you got vish to answer? I figured we scared him away

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Mike.

wow you got vish to answer? I figured we scared him away

Scared him away? Musta missed that.

[Mike.]

Originally Posted by justpete

Scared him away? Musta missed that.

His OFT thread that he basically abandoned, so we raised some hell and posted in his other threads to get him to notice...that worked to an extent, but I thought he would have been done with us after the little "look at me, answer us" stunt

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Mike.

His OFT thread that he basically abandoned, so we raised some hell and posted in his other threads to get him to notice...that worked to an extent, but I thought he would have been done with us after the little "look at me, answer us" stunt

Huh. Missed that. No problem contacted them and they were very patient explaining to this moron how to go about getting back to stock DME so it can be read instead of the tune file. I hate computers....

[andrey_gta]

Damn this sucks

[chris82]

Originally Posted by andrey_gta

Damn this sucks

I noticed we're putting out identical whp/wtq numbers