[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

That is complete nonsense. DTC pulls timing to reduce torque as well. If autopid isn't enabled he could just be getting throttle trimming. The only way to determine if he had a timing drop out would be to log it and such a drop out does not constitute knock.

Mike

Isnt that what i said? Log it.

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Clap135

By making claims that the data out theres shows no proff. Please support those claims with proof.

Once again, I am asking questions, unlike you that is making statements.

[techlogik]

Nothing to see here...


This has all been covered in previous threads. I still don't understand why people refuse to read the documents and threads already on here to learn why the way Terry tunes a car is pure garbage and will eventually fry your engine, worst case, it will slowly wear the engine components due to repeated knock and detonation which is terrible.

I know, "we have over 5,000 people with the JB tune out there....no engines blown...stock ECU/knock sensors are plenty for running high boost...blah..blah...blah.." is the typical response from Mike/Terry.

The fact is, and I am a GIAC user, the Procede is the best/most sophisticated tune available for the N54 period when autotune is enabled and utilized...period.

Flame on people!!!!

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

Once again, I am asking questions, unlike you that is making statements.

once again, you are making claims that knock events are not strong enough to damage engines over time. Please provide proof.

[skinrock]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

That is complete nonsense. DTC pulls timing to reduce torque as well. If autopid isn't enabled he could just be getting throttle trimming. The only way to determine if he had a timing drop out would be to log it and such a drop out does not constitute knock.

Mike

After reading this, I should note a couple things: DTC was on, I usually forget to disable this. I have not updated, so I don't even have autopid yet.

I am going to try my best to get it updated and get some logs for you guys. I might hit up Best Buy and get a cheap netbook today.

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Clap135

once again, you are making claims that knock events are not strong enough to damage engine over times. Please provide proof.

and you are stating firm the opposite. Without any data. I have asked many times for this and you are unable to provide it.

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

If there is no negative imput, and no positive imput, its based on opinion if it works or not, and seeing that quite a few people are using it without problem, seems it works pretty well..




It would be wrong to bring up personal issues in a manor that is found to be unprofessional, when discussing something completely irrelevant to the subject of the thread you are posting said information in. That is MY OPINION.

If you feel the need to lower yourself to that point, thats your opinion, and I respect your opinions on letting people know what you feel is necessary.

InCityPhoto doesn't speak for everyone from Tampa by the way....haha...

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

and you are stating firm the opposite. Without any data. I have asked many times for this and you are unable to provide it.

The data is posted in this very thread. If you are well informed, you will know what to look for. Where is your data? Please provide proof.

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Yes it does. What BMW did is the same thing that would be done by ANY OTHER TUNER IN THE INDUSTRY. Porsche, Mercedes, GM, Mazda, Toyota, Ford, etc,. All the same. When you increase engine load, you reduced timing advance target. You don't let timing reactively drop through knock control feedback. That is not the safe approach.If you claim otherwise, you either have something to gain by misinforming people. Or you just like to argue. I don't care either way. But these are the facts and I cannot change them.

amen to that !!!

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Clap135

The data is posted in this very thread. If you are well informed, you will know what to look for. Where is your data? Please provide proof.

Please repost this data, I must have missed it.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by BrianMN

Even though I haven't been active in this thread, you forgot me in that list of former JB users, haha. And the purpose you mentioned is spot on. The natural progression of N54 owners is to: look online for what mods to buy, have 50 people tell them that the JB3/4 is fricken awesome and it's only $500, they buy it and rip for a bit but begin to get accustomed to the poor driveability and inconsistency, then spend a few hours actually reading on a technical level and buy a proper tune. By that time, most of the smart people who originally said "JB ftw" have moved on anyways.

That's not the case with 99% of the experienced members on here... It's simply about improper vs. proper.

Have you driven a JB4? Here is what another PROcede user had to say about it. So don't be so quick to lump your JB3 complaints in with the JB4. It's an entirely new system just at the very beginning of development and it's already 100x better than the JB3.

Originally Posted by bryce

So, I got on the Beta testing for the JB4 after my curiosity got the best of me. i had previously ran the JB+ and 18ohm JB3 on my car. I switched to a Procede v4/v5 about 4 or so months ago, and it was a noticeable difference in throttle response, part-throttle boost response, plus the transition from part to full throttle when compared with the JB3. WOT was basically the same (feel-wise) as the JB3. I'm not going to speculate on the power at WOT as it'd be purely speculative; I have no dyno figures. The Procede did have CANbus integration, with many features previously unavailable on this platform.

That being said, the new JB4 is a vast improvement over the jb3. It's definitely smooth in the aforementioned conditions, and the WOT feels just as strong as the Procede V5. If I understand it correctly, the CAN-based boost targeting of the JB4 is definitely a winner. The gauges, CAN-integration, map switching, etc. are all great improvements over the JB3, and I think I like the steering wheel controls better than the Procede V5's cruise control methods.

In my opinion, the JB4 is a bargin if you get the pinout at $349. I seriously can't believe BMS is still offering this price on the drastically improved unit. I got the PNP for ease of install/un-install but it's far from necessary; pin-out is easy enough. PNP is a cheap upgrade if you have a JB3 already, so that's a
great bonus.

In regards to the Procede V5 versus the JB4, it's definitely more competitive now. I'm going to wait until new features are released on the JB4 to make my final decision on the unit (auto-tuning, etc), but I am definitely impressed with the Beta Firmware so far!

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

Please repost this data, I must have missed it.

Please learn how to search, then procede to provide proof to back your claims.

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Please learn how to search, then procede to provide proof to back your claims.

Once again you are going to make a statement without your data..

My ONLY claim is that the OEM knock sensor does its job with or without the JB4 system.

My proof is the all the members that currently driving there N54's with or without running the JB4 and are happy with it (not blowing up there cars)

You claim is that it does not work correctly.

You have yet to show any data that this is in fact true.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

Once again you are going to make a statement without your data..

My ONLY claim is that the OEM knock sensor does its job with or without the JB4 system.

My proof is the all the members that currently are running the JB4 and are happy with it (not blowing up there cars)

You claim is that it does not work correctly.

You have yet to show any data that this is in fact true.

The data is in this thread
Its a knock sensor, thats how they work, they detect knock.
Happy jb4 memebers is not proof of engine saftey. Happy is known as an expression. Not proof of a timing curve being matched to engine output.
The data to back my claims is in the this thread.

Please provide proof, not user expressions to back your claims.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

I love the amount of people posting in here and even claim they know nothing about cars, or what knock is, or how it works, and then they still second guess...

Really?

Really?

Try Google if you dont understand how engines work or what knock is for starters.

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Clap135

The data is in this thread
Its a knock sensor, thats how they work, they detect knock.
Happy jb4 memebers is not proof of engine saftey. Happy is known as an expression. Not proof of a timing curve being matched to engine output.
The data to back my claims is in the this thread.

Please provide proof, not user expressions to back your claims.

You are right they detect knock, but you can not provide what severity knock they detect, so in reality they could be detecting knock so small that it does absolutely NO harm to the N54 and works smoothly.

It does matter if the "owners" of said cars are "happy" it has to do that the cars run smoothly and without "heavy damaging knocking" that we all believe is detrimental to the health of the engines.

If your data is in these threads, please take the time and go find it, post your data showing the severity of "knocking" that these "knock sensors" respond too, and we can continue.

You can't do that, so there is no argument.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

I love the amount of people posting in here and even claim they know nothing about cars, or what knock is, or how it works, and then they still second guess...

Really?

Really?

Try Google if you dont understand how engines work or what knock is for starters.

please provide proof.


EDIT: oh wait i thought it was just another misinformed member, sorry jeff.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

You are right they detect knock, but you can not provide what severity knock they detect, so in reality they could be detecting knock so small that it does absolutely NO harm to the N54 and works smoothly.

It does matter if the "owners" of said cars are "happy" it has to do that the cars run smoothly and without "heavy damaging knocking" that we all believe is detrimental to the health of the engines.

If your data is in these threads, please take the time and go find it, post your data showing the severity of "knocking" that these "knock sensors" respond too, and we can continue.

You can't do that, so there is no argument.

Please provide proof to you claims. My data is in this thread, you are to misinformed to understand it. Once again you list your opinions with no backing. Untill you provide proof, cause "happy memembers" won't cut it sport, I will continue to give you the same answer you u just disappear.

[Move.Over]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

Once again you are going to make a statement without your data..

My ONLY claim is that the OEM knock sensor does its job with or without the JB4 system.

My proof is the all the members that currently driving there N54's with or without running the JB4 and are happy with it (not blowing up there cars)

You claim is that it does not work correctly.

You have yet to show any data that this is in fact true.

So if your logic holds true you might as well fill up with 87 octane because the knock sensor will do its job and the engine will be happy.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Move.Over

So if your logic holds true you might as well fill up with 87 octane because the knock sensor will do its job and the engine will be happy.

If his logic held true in fairytale land, 10's of thousands of "low severity" knock would have no ill effects on an engine cause its of "low severity".

I want this guy tuning my next car. PLEASE!

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Move.Over

So if your logic holds true you might as well fill up with 87 octane because the knock sensor will do its job and the engine will be happy.

At some point no amount of reasonable timing retard can stop detonation at a given effective compression with low enough octane. If you get to that point the DME throws a limp code and shuts off boost.

Mike

[InCityPhoto]

Originally Posted by Move.Over

So if your logic holds true you might as well fill up with 87 octane because the knock sensor will do its job and the engine will be happy.

As long as you stay within the range the OEM knock sensor can control, in theory it will continually lower the timing until the car runs without constant knocking, if it is unable to do so, it will throw the limp code and boost will be removed. Correct?