[4Hockey4]

yea my bad, I threw the crumbs in..I'll refrain next time. and how to you set someone to ignore ?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by 4Hockey4

yea my bad, I threw the crumbs in..I'll refrain next time. and how to you set someone to ignore ?

It is admittedly difficult at times to refrain, especially depending on the level of ridiculousness in the statement(s).

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It is admittedly difficult at times to refrain, especially depending on the level of ridiculousness in the statement(s).

It's kind of like doing sim training where you desired outcome is de-escalation.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf993

It's kind of like doing sim training where you desired outcome is de-escalation.

Yeah, but the damn sim always wants you to use force.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by 4hockey4

and how to you set someone to ignore ?

user cp> edit ignore list> add name> save.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Yeah, but the damn sim always wants you to use force.

During segments of our Use of Force training they would through scenarios at you that baited you to shoot but they wanted the de-escalation. They were all taken from actual calls for service. You'd get some real dicks to deal with that pushed all your buttons.

[NorCalAthlete]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

I'll stand by stats from the NYPD and the NY Post

Originally Posted by Littlebear

the police union is distorting the facts.

Ok....well then...since that implies you trust things straight from the horse's mouth (NYPD) despite believing the unions distort the facts (fair point; individual officers by and large may support something that the chief / union do not as those are far more politicized positions):

PoliceOne's Gun Control Survey: 11 key lessons from officers' perspectives

Originally Posted by Littlebear

And as usual, character assassination, and no factual back-up.
As the article states, gun violence is up across the country, and most places haven't had bail reform.
The actual numbers are pointing towards other causes for the increased gun violence over the last year. Stress, less employment, more street time, large increases in gun sales, all look to be much larger factors. Bail reform contributing in single digits for NYC.
Gun violence is the only major crime which is up in NYC. :

"Overall, New York City actually saw a 5.5 percent decline in major crimes when compared to the first six months of 2019."

It must be hard going through life only trusting what your own eyes see (Google is your friend).

Even the last year is a mild uptick compared to overall declines.

Pew Research: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

I post this one first since, despite being a little outdated, the sentiment has remained pervasive and uninformed (ie, people believing consistently over the years that it is always trending upwards, even during periods of decline).

This one is more recent, and shows the recent uptick - but overall still declining - rate.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...hs-in-the-u-s/

Originally Posted by Littlebear

I trust the peer review system. I am one in billions. Why be so limited?

...which is a bit ironic since you've referenced and posted gun control articles that were not peer reviewed and have not been peer reviewed since...but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say maybe you didn't know that and simply trusted the overall source since, on other topics, they may have been peer reviewed.

To everyone else: I know, I know, feeding the trolls, but every time I get sucked into one of these debates I try to keep in mind that for every troll posting, there are dozens of uninformed fence sitters lurking and reading and not knowing who to believe / who's a troll vs who's reliable. It's for them that I post replies and responses.

At the end of the day, we're all ambassadors, like it or not, for our cause / side of an argument. Represent your side well and you may win people over. Represent it poorly and you may not. I'm willing to bet that the scales are tipped moderately in favor of guns, but also acknowledge that the worst part about guns can sometimes be the gun community. I chalk a good bit of that up to being the targets of decades of harassment and vilification, but regardless of the reason it's still unbecoming. I have quite a bit more patience than most so I allow myself a bit of leeway when it comes to posting on certain topics.

We're once again straying into political territory but I wanted to post the police1 study as it was directly relevant to the last couple pages here as far as "well, you're a cop, how do you feel about concealed carry / gun control".

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Ok....well then...since that implies you trust things straight from the horse's mouth (NYPD) despite believing the unions distort the facts (fair point; individual officers by and large may support something that the chief / union do not as those are far more politicized positions):

PoliceOne's Gun Control Survey: 11 key lessons from officers' perspectives

Even the last year is a mild uptick compared to overall declines.

Pew Research: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

I post this one first since, despite being a little outdated, the sentiment has remained pervasive and uninformed (ie, people believing consistently over the years that it is always trending upwards, even during periods of decline).

This one is more recent, and shows the recent uptick - but overall still declining - rate.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...hs-in-the-u-s/

...which is a bit ironic since you've referenced and posted gun control articles that were not peer reviewed and have not been peer reviewed since...but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say maybe you didn't know that and simply trusted the overall source since, on other topics, they may have been peer reviewed.

To everyone else: I know, I know, feeding the trolls, but every time I get sucked into one of these debates I try to keep in mind that for every troll posting, there are dozens of uninformed fence sitters lurking and reading and not knowing who to believe / who's a troll vs who's reliable. It's for them that I post replies and responses.

At the end of the day, we're all ambassadors, like it or not, for our cause / side of an argument. Represent your side well and you may win people over. Represent it poorly and you may not. I'm willing to bet that the scales are tipped moderately in favor of guns, but also acknowledge that the worst part about guns can sometimes be the gun community. I chalk a good bit of that up to being the targets of decades of harassment and vilification, but regardless of the reason it's still unbecoming. I have quite a bit more patience than most so I allow myself a bit of leeway when it comes to posting on certain topics.

We're once again straying into political territory but I wanted to post the police1 study as it was directly relevant to the last couple pages here as far as "well, you're a cop, how do you feel about concealed carry / gun control".

Interesting thing that police1 survey is. I did not participate, but agree with their assessments based on the polling. It's pretty spot on.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/...ics-april-2021

For the month of April 2021, overall index crime in New York City rose 30.4% compared with April 2020, driven by a 66% increase in grand larceny (2,659 v. 1,601) and a 35.6% increase in felony assault (1,630 v. 1,202). Robbery saw a 28.6% increase compared to April 2020 (885 v. 688), and shooting incidents increased to 149 v. 56 in April 2020 (+166.1%). Burglary was the only index crime to post a reduction – down 26% (855 v. 1,155) in April 2021, compared to the previous year.

Oh Lucy, how could you? You used Google which you know won't fly in this crowd.

But seriously, once again Lucy shows herself to be the only person here who understands stats, and the amazing tool google can be (Murf#2 can be good sometimes).
Unfortunately, Lucy scored her point by changing the subject to April crime in NYC, from the subject of Bail Reform.

But that's OK; I just need to regroup.

[4Hockey4]

Use DuckDuckGO, results are much cleaner. #facts

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Ok....well then...since that implies you trust things straight from the horse's mouth (NYPD) despite believing the unions distort the facts (fair point; individual officers by and large may support something that the chief / union do not as those are far more politicized positions):

PoliceOne's Gun Control Survey: 11 key lessons from officers' perspectives

Any survey with questions like:
"6. The overwhelming majority (almost 90 percent) of officers believe that casualties would be decreased if armed citizens were present at the onset of an active-shooter incident."
...is just a joke. What did you expect the cops to say?

[NorCalAthlete]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Any survey with questions like:
"6. The overwhelming majority (almost 90 percent) of officers believe that casualties would be decreased if armed citizens were present at the onset of an active-shooter incident."
...is just a joke. What did you expect the cops to say?

You do realize that is in direct reference to the oft-mentioned pro-gun-control position of "concealed carry permit holders would only cause further confusion if present at a mass shooting, and cops and CCW holders would end up in a shootout and hit further random people only increasing the casualties"?

[jamesinaz]

Originally Posted by TiMSport

Wow, why so defensive? We're 2 grown adults having a conversation. I was not attacking you nor trying to make you feel dumb (your words). Not a big deal that you weren't familiar with what I had referenced. I had just assumed you were since you brought up the subject of voting and that situation has gotten a lot of attention and in the State in which you live in.

Again, you and I obviously have different views on carrying firearms, no more, no less. I'm not going to debate over the Constitution as it's played out. People will ultimately agree to disagree.

Personally I liked our conversation about cats in a different thread.

Sorry if I seemed offended to you. I wasn't really. Just pointing out what seemed to be an attempt to categorize me as a maga hat wearing election denier. Not the case at all.

You might discover I don't LIKE many people that carry guns and wish everyone that wanted to WOULD get training. I am out of practice and feel uncomfortable myself and I suspect I could pass most police firing line tests.

I'm just OK with Texas saying it isn't something they want to control via regulations as it is a right. If congress actually got the votes to pass an amendment removing the 2nd then I would respect that. I just don't respect any efforts to put constraints on rights. No more than I would if suddenly my right to stand on a soapbox and say the president sucks was curtailed.

BTW I believe all this 2A stuff will come to the forefront in the near future as eventually the SC is going to be forced to hear if it is an actual individual right or not. Could be some major kerfluffle on one side or another.

Speaking of cats - we get this little guy back in an urn next week. Taking him in was the saddest day I've had in years.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

You do realize that is in direct reference to the oft-mentioned pro-gun-control position of "concealed carry permit holders would only cause further confusion if present at a mass shooting, and cops and CCW holders would end up in a shootout and hit further random people only increasing the casualties"?

Yes, of course.

[6oclockshadow]

Come to Boston, it is nearly impossible for a law abiding citizen to obtain a gun legally.

[TiMSport]

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

Sorry if I seemed offended to you. I wasn't really. Just pointing out what seemed to be an attempt to categorize me as a maga hat wearing election denier. Not the case at all.

You might discover I don't LIKE many people that carry guns and wish everyone that wanted to WOULD get training. I am out of practice and feel uncomfortable myself and I suspect I could pass most police firing line tests.

I'm just OK with Texas saying it isn't something they want to control via regulations as it is a right. If congress actually got the votes to pass an amendment removing the 2nd then I would respect that. I just don't respect any efforts to put constraints on rights. No more than I would if suddenly my right to stand on a soapbox and say the president sucks was curtailed.

BTW I believe all this 2A stuff will come to the forefront in the near future as eventually the SC is going to be forced to hear if it is an actual individual right or not. Could be some major kerfluffle on one side or another.

Speaking of cats - we get this little guy back in an urn next week. Taking him in was the saddest day I've had in years.

Lol, duly noted. That's the thing, it's hard to convey stuff by simply posting on a forum and the like. The subject came up before in another discussion but it sure would be nice if people could discuss their differences and share their respective opinions over some beers. That would be a lot more fun and productive.

Hey man I'm really sorry about your cat. If it's the one I'm thinking of he was appreciative of everything you did for him until the final days. Trust me, I know the feeling well and it's hard to get over. You'll probably at least have good memories during the better days.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/...ics-april-2021

For the month of April 2021,... to the previous year.

Gd, what happened in April to cause this?

Last year was a strange one, and it's hard to use it for comparisons. Looking further back we can see some trends:
Going two years back shows we now have a drop in crime.
Going back 11 & 28 yrs shows a massive drop in crime. Gun crimes are the major prob presently.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Ok....well then...since that implies you trust things straight from the horse's mouth (NYPD) despite believing the unions distort the facts (fair point; individual officers by and large may support something that the chief / union do not as those are far more politicized positions):

PoliceOne's Gun Control Survey: 11 key lessons from officers' perspectives



Even the last year is a mild uptick compared to overall declines.

Pew Research: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

I post this one first since, despite being a little outdated, the sentiment has remained pervasive and uninformed (ie, people believing consistently over the years that it is always trending upwards, even during periods of decline).

This one is more recent, and shows the recent uptick - but overall still declining - rate.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...hs-in-the-u-s/



...which is a bit ironic since you've referenced and posted gun control articles that were not peer reviewed and have not been peer reviewed since...but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say maybe you didn't know that and simply trusted the overall source since, on other topics, they may have been peer reviewed.

Thanks for the Pew stuff. NY & MA have the lowest gun fatalities per 100,000, age adjusted (!) in 2017.

Obviously the term "peer Review" is not patented, so there are peer reviews, and peer reviews. Any decent publication will review stuff before publication, and by publishing, are subjecting their work to peer review after. Yes, this is different from scientific peer review.

[NorCalAthlete]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Any survey with questions like:
"6. The overwhelming majority (almost 90 percent) of officers believe that casualties would be decreased if armed citizens were present at the onset of an active-shooter incident."
...is just a joke. What did you expect the cops to say?

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

You do realize that is in direct reference to the oft-mentioned pro-gun-control position of "concealed carry permit holders would only cause further confusion if present at a mass shooting, and cops and CCW holders would end up in a shootout and hit further random people only increasing the casualties"?

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Yes, of course.

Then it should be fairly obvious that it is directly relevant, not a joke, and an attempt to answer a common talking point by one of the major viewpoints involved in the conversation. How do you come to the conclusion the entire survey is a joke when it directly deals with the assumptions lobbed out by gun control supporters? Just because the people surveyed ended up disagreeing en masse with the viewpoint / scenario that was assumed / ascribed to them?

[rwheels]

Originally Posted by TiMSport

Lol, duly noted. That's the thing, it's hard to convey stuff by simply posting on a forum and the like. The subject came up before in another discussion but it sure would be nice if people could discuss their differences and share their respective opinions over some beers. That would be a lot more fun and productive.

Hey man I'm really sorry about your cat. If it's the one I'm thinking of he was appreciative of everything you did for him until the final days. Trust me, I know the feeling well and it's hard to get over. You'll probably at least have good memories during the better days.

Ahem! Ahem! Careful what you say there.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Then it should be fairly obvious that it is directly relevant, not a joke, and an attempt to answer a common talking point by one of the major viewpoints involved in the conversation. How do you come to the conclusion the entire survey is a joke when it directly deals with the assumptions lobbed out by gun control supporters? Just because the people surveyed ended up disagreeing en masse with the viewpoint / scenario that was assumed / ascribed to them?

Pls excuse my curt dismissal. But some of the questions seem leading, to say the least. I also think it is sort of like surveying the NRA or the military, ie: if you are a hammer everything looks like a nail.

ex: "8. More than four in five respondents (81 percent) say that gun-buyback programs are ineffective in reducing gun violence."
I don't think they are correct!

I'm sure you have seen recent surveys of the general population regarding gun safety measures?

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by rwheels

Ahem! Ahem! Careful what you say there.

You know you are old when you remember watching Andre the Giant wrestle on TV!