[AWD Motorsports]

All orders also have shipped today guys.. It took a little persuasion on my part to get the Manufacturer to ship 7 sets of these without having everyones cores.. So PLEASE if you can get the cores back asap it will help your fellow members out on getting their turbos.. Thanks!!

Mike

[OpenFlash]

darn.. that was quick.

[itsbrokeagain]

Id like to see a set of these in person...hopefully someone around here buys a set

[AWD Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe

Id like to see a set of these in person...hopefully someone around here buys a set

I set sent to NY but not sure if your area..

Mike

[creaminz]

UPS out for delivery!! Yay! Thanks Mike @ AWD!!

[AWD Motorsports]

Yes sir.. Keep us updated PLEASE with your before and after results.. I cant wait to hear about the smile when you feel how well they pull on top..

[ETS Michael]

[Penn999]

As I continue to debate which turbos to buy(RB or AWD), I am learning that different turbos have different functions...whether it be for the track, 1/4 mile, top speed, acceleration, or even 60-130. So comparing your turbo setup to the RB's that are obviously bigger and make more power. Where do you think these turbos(AWD) would fall into the categories above. My guess is the track and 1/4 mile because of the lower overall speeds and the lighter billet wheel(which means it will theoretically spool faster and accelerate faster). I would LOVE to see each camp produce figures for some of the categories listed above. I will talk to Rob(or those with RB's) and see if he willing or deems it worth while. IMO I think these are better selling factors/specs than dyno as they are too easily manipulated. If I am wrong please correct me...

[AWD Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Penn999

As I continue to debate which turbos to buy(RB or AWD), I am learning that different turbos have different functions...whether it be for the track, 1/4 mile, top speed, acceleration, or even 60-130. So comparing your turbo setup to the RB's that are obviously bigger and make more power. Where do you think these turbos(AWD) would fall into the categories above. My guess is the track and 1/4 mile because of the lower overall speeds and the lighter billet wheel(which means it will theoretically spool faster and accelerate faster). I would LOVE to see each camp produce figures for some of the categories listed above. I will talk to Rob(or those with RB's) and see if he willing or deems it worth while. IMO I think these are better selling factors/specs than dyno as they are too easily manipulated. If I am wrong please correct me...

Unfortunately I have never used the RB turbos or driven a car with them to comment.. They make more power certainly since they are in larger housings with larger internals.. Best thing to do is sit tight and wait for some results in the real world on these.. You cant go by the 1st car to run the 1/4 mile either it will take some time to see what they are worth in the 1/4.. We have guys with 550hp that cant get in the 10s with an Evo and I have other customers on stock turbos with 440hp run 10s.. Driver being the #1 key and weight of car being #2.. And anyone who says driver doesnt matter just look at trap speed doesnt know anything about drag racing.. as far as dyno manipulation goes it would be foolish for us to do that because now with 7 sets out there if NOBODY is getting results close to ours we wont sell another set probably.. We didnt setup this turbo program and design a billet wheel for the n54 to sell 7 sets.. My guess quite honestly is that many others will beat our HP on the dyno with more aggressive tuning, more meth, & better bolt on mods as well with these turbos..

Our AWD turbos i would guess definitely will perform as well as anyones or better for road racing.. There will be nothing that will spool faster than these unless they are stock frame billet also.. As far as all other categories im not sure and dont want to start a war with RB claiming anything i cant back up.. These should be more consistent and easier to drive with having much less lag than larger frame units.. I guess it will just take some time to tell.. Everything doesnt happen overnight.. Results will start pouring in shortly i am sure.. Im confident the seat of the pants will tell much of the story of how well these work.. There is NO DOUBT these pull to redline and dont fall on their face and youll see it with each gear pull..

Mike

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by AWD Motorsports

Unfortunately I have never used the RB turbos or driven a car with them to comment.. They make more power certainly since they are in larger housings with larger internals.. Best thing to do is sit tight and wait for some results in the real world on these.. You cant go by the 1st car to run the 1/4 mile either it will take some time to see what they are worth in the 1/4.. We have guys with 550hp that cant get in the 10s with an Evo and I have other customers on stock turbos with 440hp run 10s.. Driver being the #1 key and weight of car being #2.. And anyone who says driver doesnt matter just look at trap speed doesnt know anything about drag racing.. as far as dyno manipulation goes it would be foolish for us to do that because now with 7 sets out there if NOBODY is getting results close to ours we wont sell another set probably.. We didnt setup this turbo program and design a billet wheel for the n54 to sell 7 sets.. My guess quite honestly is that many others will beat our HP on the dyno with more aggressive tuning, more meth, & better bolt on mods as well with these turbos..

Our AWD turbos i would guess definitely will perform as well as anyones or better for road racing.. There will be nothing that will spool faster than these unless they are stock frame billet also.. As far as all other categories im not sure and dont want to start a war with RB claiming anything i cant back up.. These should be more consistent and easier to drive with having much less lag than larger frame units.. I guess it will just take some time to tell.. Everything doesnt happen overnight.. Results will start pouring in shortly i am sure.. Im confident the seat of the pants will tell much of the story of how well these work.. There is NO DOUBT these pull to redline and dont fall on their face and youll see it with each gear pull..

Mike

I totally understand what you are saying about the driver. That kinda goes without saying. Im asking what your theory was behind the design. Why not bigger, why not diff. materials? What is your goal/intended buyer? What are the advantages of these over the RB's theoretically. Im not trying to start a war either, only get the facts and why you choose what you did with these tubros...thats all. Im no doubting your results or anything, I would like to see the full spectrum of information before I decide to drop that much on turbos. I want to know the advantages and disadvantages of the competitor. This is a forum right? We are allowed to debate and theorize? Or am i treading on thin ice? Basically sell me on your product, I understand that not enough have come out yet, but dont you communicate with the guy/guys that already have them installed or have a shop car that you work on? Lastly, I dont know why you would say a different turbo setup would be any more/less consistent...can you explain that in more detail?

[AWD Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Penn999

I totally understand what you are saying about the driver. That kinda goes without saying. Im asking what your theory was behind the design. Why not bigger, why not diff. materials? What is your goal/intended buyer? What are the advantages of these over the RB's theoretically. Im not trying to start a war either, only get the facts and why you choose what you did with these tubros...thats all. Im no doubting your results or anything, I would like to see the full spectrum of information before I decide to drop that much on turbos. I want to know the advantages and disadvantages of the competitor. This is a forum right? We are allowed to debate and theorize? Or am i treading on thin ice? Basically sell me on your product, I understand that not enough have come out yet, but dont you communicate with the guy/guys that already have them installed or have a shop car that you work on? Lastly, I dont know why you would say a different turbo setup would be any more/less consistent...can you explain that in more detail?

Why not bigger.. They cant go bigger in the factory housings.. I wanted a simple approach to more power.. you dont need ANYTHING to swap these on.. They appear stock if anyone looks at them.. Some dealers will have no problem with an intake, exhaust and FMIC but they will with turbo upgrades so the dealer wont ever know they are upgrades unless they go taking them apart..

Why not different materials?? Cost for 1.. Titanium isnt going to make them affordable.. so thats out.. Billet aluminum wheels have proven to work well with the 996tt, 997tt, Mitsubishi Evo and many other platforms so i went the same approach we did for those vehicles because i knew it would work..

My intended buyer is someone looking to have the FATTEST POWERBAND possible without sacrificing the spool characteristics.. This is why we kept them stock appearing.. Also for ease of install.. its a direct swap..

What are the advantages over the RB?? Once again i havent used the RB to know.. But i will GUESS they spool faster, install easier, and look stock.. Those are the advantages right off the bat..

You can ask any and all the questions you want.. Its a forum.. Ill answer as many and all questions i can.. What i wont do is twist anyones arm to buy them.. You can make that decision on your own..

I am communicating with the guys who are installing them.. However NONE have been put in just yet.. 7 sets are out there.. As the data comes in good or bad it will be posted all over this forum.. I didnt sell 7 sets of these and tell everyone if the results suck dont post about it.. There will be PLENTY of posts from all different combinations of parts & Tunes and from all different regions and dynos as well.. Well see what the people have to say.. These turbos show as FACT they hold MORE BOOST than stock and they make more POWER closer to redline.. There is no way to fake the graph.. The Line is FLAT not dropping..

As far as why i say different turbo setups can be less consistent is because when you bring lag into the equation you have a less consistent car.. You have car that requires power shifting or a DCT trans to stay on boost.. You have a car that must be shifted as close to redline as possible in order to not fall out of boost... and you with lag you have a car that can potentially bog down much easier launching it...

So with that said stock frame turbos that spool JUST LIKE STOCK you can get into a instance where you must short shifter your car due to spinning, traction etc.. In that case it will have much better boost recovery than a larger turbo which in turn will make it MORE CONSISTENT..

I hope i answered all of your questions from the above post.. feel free to ask as many as you like.. Im prepared to answer them all as i know i have a great product to offer or i would have never brought it to the n54 community..

Mike

[BrianMN]

I think what Penn is looking for (even though he is getting the HPF single turbo kit to have the fastest N54) is a breakdown of this turbo upgrade compared to others.

For example, can we speak to this:

Turbo/Housing: What size do you bore out the housing?

Compressor Wheel: Let's discuss sizes and design differences. AWD is using billet, perhaps you can speak to how this differs, even though it's obvious. Numbers and data is great.

Turbine: Let's discuss what each company does to the exhaust side? Does AWD clip the turbine? Numbers are good.

Wastegate upgrades: It seems most companies are leaving the stock wastegate setup, but replacing the actuator and adjusting properly.

Oil and coolant feed lines: What does each company do differently? (I think ASR is the only one that changes this?)

I believe those are the points we'd like to discuss.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by AWD Motorsports

Why not bigger.. They cant go bigger in the factory housings.. I wanted a simple approach to more power.. you dont need ANYTHING to swap these on.. They appear stock if anyone looks at them.. Some dealers will have no problem with an intake, exhaust and FMIC but they will with turbo upgrades so the dealer wont ever know they are upgrades unless they go taking them apart..

Why not different materials?? Cost for 1.. Titanium isnt going to make them affordable.. so thats out.. Billet aluminum wheels have proven to work well with the 996tt, 997tt, Mitsubishi Evo and many other platforms so i went the same approach we did for those vehicles because i knew it would work..

My intended buyer is someone looking to have the FATTEST POWERBAND possible without sacrificing the spool characteristics.. This is why we kept them stock appearing.. Also for ease of install.. its a direct swap..

What are the advantages over the RB?? Once again i havent used the RB to know.. But i will GUESS they spool faster, install easier, and look stock.. Those are the advantages right off the bat..

You can ask any and all the questions you want.. Its a forum.. Ill answer as many and all questions i can.. What i wont do is twist anyones arm to buy them.. You can make that decision on your own..

I am communicating with the guys who are installing them.. However NONE have been put in just yet.. 7 sets are out there.. As the data comes in good or bad it will be posted all over this forum.. I didnt sell 7 sets of these and tell everyone if the results suck dont post about it.. There will be PLENTY of posts from all different combinations of parts & Tunes and from all different regions and dynos as well.. Well see what the people have to say.. These turbos show as FACT they hold MORE BOOST than stock and they make more POWER closer to redline.. There is no way to fake the graph.. The Line is FLAT not dropping..

As far as why i say different turbo setups can be less consistent is because when you bring lag into the equation you have a less consistent car.. You have car that requires power shifting or a DCT trans to stay on boost.. You have a car that must be shifted as close to redline as possible in order to not fall out of boost... and you with lag you have a car that can potentially bog down much easier launching it...

So with that said stock frame turbos that spool JUST LIKE STOCK you can get into a instance where you must short shifter your car due to spinning, traction etc.. In that case it will have much better boost recovery than a larger turbo which in turn will make it MORE CONSISTENT..

I hope i answered all of your questions from the above post.. feel free to ask as many as you like.. Im prepared to answer them all as i know i have a great product to offer or i would have never brought it to the n54 community..

Mike

I never said your product was not good or inferior to another turbo setup. I just wanted to know why you designed them the way that you did. You answered that, to be STOCK LIKE(feel, visually, and not too expensive). Totally understandable. I also understand the stock turbos characteristics so I know what you are saying there but you honestly think that a small difference in core and a small difference in turbine will affect consistency that much? I dont think so. I think if we were comparing your setup to a bigger single turbo setup then we could talk about consistency. But I think that the minute size differences between yours and RB's is a little exaggerated. Will yours be closer to stock consistency wise...yes, but enough to talk about short shifting, power shifting and staying in boost?? Again i dont think so. I thought there was already a set installed in a customers car in which dynos were already made? Is he not doing another round of dynos with new plugs...I thought thats what round 2 was all about?

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by BrianMN

I think what Penn is looking for (even though he is getting the HPF single turbo kit to have the fastest N54) is a breakdown of this turbo upgrade compared to others.

For example, can we speak to this:

Turbo/Housing: What size do you bore out the housing?

Compressor Wheel: Let's discuss sizes and design differences. AWD is using billet, perhaps you can speak to how this differs, even though it's obvious. Numbers and data is great.

Turbine: Let's discuss what each company does to the exhaust side? Does AWD clip the turbine? Numbers are good.

Wastegate upgrades: It seems most companies are leaving the stock wastegate setup, but replacing the actuator and adjusting properly.

Oil and coolant feed lines: What does each company do differently? (I think ASR is the only one that changes this?)

I believe those are the points we'd like to discuss.

I like HPF, but I have not committed to any purchase of their single setup and I am strongly considering the RB's. One main reason, I already have A LOT of $$$ invested in the TT setup. I would really rather not have to ship my car out there, sell all of my used parts...etc. This is a much larger factor than having the fastest n54 on the market lol. If I wanted that I would go hotrod's route and stick some No2 with some RB's in there and you could probably claim yourself the fastest n54 UNTIL the HPF kit comes out. But do i want to spend another 15k on a single setup?? I dont know yet. I could do A TON of stuff with 15k. Hell for that I could buy a sick DD like an Evo or and STI and keep the miles off of my current car. There are a lot of factors that come into play when you are talking 15k+.

But you are correct in the way I wanted to discuss the different turbo setups currently available. +1 to you!

[AWD Motorsports]

Originally Posted by BrianMN

I think what Penn is looking for (even though he is getting the HPF single turbo kit to have the fastest N54) is a breakdown of this turbo upgrade compared to others.

For example, can we speak to this:

Turbo/Housing: What size do you bore out the housing?

Compressor Wheel: Let's discuss sizes and design differences. AWD is using billet, perhaps you can speak to how this differs, even though it's obvious. Numbers and data is great.

Turbine: Let's discuss what each company does to the exhaust side? Does AWD clip the turbine? Numbers are good.

Wastegate upgrades: It seems most companies are leaving the stock wastegate setup, but replacing the actuator and adjusting properly.

Oil and coolant feed lines: What does each company do differently? (I think ASR is the only one that changes this?)

I believe those are the points we'd like to discuss.

They are 39.6mm Compressor wheels.. Billet differs in weight and strength but mainly aerodynamics which is where the HP is made.. With the lighter wheel you can run a smaller center section and give the blade more surface area which in return makes more HP.. I havent used a cast wheel turbo in any car in 3 years now.. Im surprised to see anyone doing upgrades with cast wheels to be honest.. Check the picture below for a better explanation..

Do you see from the center section going out that the blades have more surface area on the billet wheel?? the cast wheel aero is not as good.. these are turbos that are the same size inducer but look at the billet and youll see it appears larger.. While they are the same size outside, the inner portion going out to the blade tip is larger on the billet.. This design has been used in many other setups for almost 4 years now and has proven superior over cast..




The turbine wheel is factory and clipped..

We have the ONLY set of Wastegate upgrades from Forge but have not yet been able to test them..

Oil and coolant lines remain all factory.. there is no reason to change these on our turbo.. everything bolts back like stock..



Hope this helps...

Mike

[AWD Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Penn999

I never said your product was not good or inferior to another turbo setup. I just wanted to know why you designed them the way that you did. You answered that, to be STOCK LIKE(feel, visually, and not too expensive). Totally understandable. I also understand the stock turbos characteristics so I know what you are saying there but you honestly think that a small difference in core and a small difference in turbine will affect consistency that much? I dont think so. I think if we were comparing your setup to a bigger single turbo setup then we could talk about consistency. But I think that the minute size differences between yours and RB's is a little exaggerated. Will yours be closer to stock consistency wise...yes, but enough to talk about short shifting, power shifting and staying in boost?? Again i dont think so. I thought there was already a set installed in a customers car in which dynos were already made? Is he not doing another round of dynos with new plugs...I thought thats what round 2 was all about?

We already updated the 2nd round of testing if you look back a page.. the breaking up was not the plugs after all or not completely the plugs.. it appears its an ignition cut under boost that is happening only under load on the dyno and not the street.. We were not able to test the larger meth nozzle because it never showed up from the company we ordered.. I couldnt keep the customers car any longer so the updated info we have was posted a page back and if you look in the 1st post it was updated as well..

Mike

[AWD Motorsports]

Here is a link..

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=328

[GeorgeSmooth]

Originally Posted by AWD Motorsports

Unfortunately I have never used the RB turbos or driven a car with them to comment.. They make more power certainly since they are in larger housings with larger internals..

Just a quick correction Mike. The RB's are in the stock housings therefore larger wheels do fit. They also direct bolt on.
I like what you said about the driver on the quarter. I loved your M5 vids by the way, you showed the world in 1 week that the car can run a ten.

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by AWD Motorsports

They are 39.6mm Compressor wheels..

The turbine wheel is factory and clipped..

We have the ONLY set of Wastegate upgrades from Forge but have not yet been able to test them..

Oil and coolant lines remain all factory.. there is no reason to change these on our turbo.. everything bolts back like stock..

Hope this helps...

Mike

That helps, how about the turbo housing/frame? How much are they bored out? Could we get a bit more info on the turbine, and maybe some comparison pictures of the clipped turbine vs. factory state.

Perhaps it would be nice for someone to setup a chart or table that shows how each company builds these.

Thanks!

[AWD Motorsports]

Originally Posted by GeorgeSmooth

Just a quick correction Mike. The RB's are in the stock housings therefore larger wheels do fit. They also direct bolt on.
I like what you said about the driver on the quarter. I loved your M5 vids by the way, you showed the world in 1 week that the car can run a ten.

The pictures i saw and description says NEW CHRA.. Do you have a pic of the RB showing them with the factory front cover on them.. These dont appear that they will fit in factory housings.. the only good link i found was on bimer*****.. The information below states they are NOT in a stock frame..

"Full details: RB Turbo upgrade MSRP $3999. Introductory pricing $2899.
Much enlarged Compressor and Turbine wheel. Upgraded centersection. Full Billet enhanced Wastegate Assembly. These turbos retain water cooling and the CHRA has been machined/adapted to work with all OEM coolant and oil lines providing a turbo setup that is a direct bolt-on!"

[AWD Motorsports]

Originally Posted by BrianMN

That helps, how about the turbo housing/frame? How much are they bored out? Could we get a bit more info on the turbine, and maybe some comparison pictures of the clipped turbine vs. factory state.

Perhaps it would be nice for someone to setup a chart or table that shows how each company builds these.

Thanks!

The housing is bored out to fit the 39.6mm wheel.. I dont have the actually housing spec on hand.. pics of clipped turbine..



I also updated with some pics to your 1st comment if you look back..

MIke

[BrianMN]

Cool, thanks for the pictures.

It appears RB has bored out the turbine outlet and puts in an upgraded turbine. Something that seems like it'd be worth it due to how small they are in the first place.

Info from RB suggests that each turbo flows 27.5lb/min, 55lb/min total. Do you have any data from the AWD set?

I'm not trying to drill you on questions for comparisons sake, just trying to grasp what specifically you're doing to the turbos...something that hasn't really been elaborated on yet.