Mike/Terry, can you please join this discussion?

Morpheus · 02-21-2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themyst

I suppose u missed that part on the first reply on page 7? Knocking at 13-14 psi is far different from knocking at 8 psi.

bullshit. again, where are all the blown engines? you guys are on a witch hunt for WMD and coming up with nothing. doesn't even make for entertaining reading. I don't know why you enjoy dogging Mike. He's just a salesman. No offense to you, Mike. Do you know how many threads I see on here about stuff that CAs and SAs that work for BMW dealers say!?

Morpheus · 02-21-2011, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clap135

Do you? You have questioned everything I have posted, but havn't provide any information to back up anything you claim. As for my data, look the two blown engine a couple month ago. If you ever saw an engine that was damamged and know what knock does to internals, its pretty easy to say waht happened to both of them.

you mean the two engines that were running meth with no failsafe?

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 02-21-2011, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

Seems that the side that is saying that there is data is unable to provide said data.

Its out there bro, get a clue. If your still lost, make a new thread maybe someone else will find it for you.

Clap135 · 02-21-2011, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

Seems that the side that is saying that there is data is unable to provide said data.

Seems like you should provide the data , search for the data in this thread or inquire basic tuning logic.

Clap135 · 02-21-2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpheus

you mean the two engines that were running meth with no failsafe?

No i mean any engien that blew up. Where were these limp mods and boost cuts to save the engine?

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 02-21-2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpheus

you mean the two engines that were running meth with no failsafe?

They had failsafes....

Morpheus · 02-21-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemanse92

Going back to first post, what is happening to stock cars that are knocking like that on a daily basis in places where those temps are seen daily? Surely there has to be some long term effects?

Yeah it's planned obsolescence on the part of BMW engineers so that the N54 explodes after your warranty is up!

Morpheus · 02-21-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clap135

If you would read the thread, you would see where I dont want this turning into a tuner war of whats better. This thread is purly to call out mike and his claims. Which oddly enough, he post a graph and ran away.

so it IS a vendetta.

AltecBX · 02-21-2011, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Have you driven a JB4? Here is what another PROcede user had to say about it. So don't be so quick to lump your JB3 complaints in with the JB4. It's an entirely new system just at the very beginning of development and it's already 100x better than the JB3.

Woo, I don't think this is a statement you should make to potential customers. This will make the re-sale or value of the JB3 close to nothing.

Morpheus · 02-21-2011, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPSlick

They had failsafes....

links?

Clap135 · 02-21-2011, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpheus

so it IS a vendetta.

If you call truth and exploiting false claims a vendetta, then yes.

AltecBX · 02-21-2011, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

From the looks of this whole thread -- it COULD be very informative to non-tuners and newbies alike.

its clear that a majority of forum members know specific engine technology terms like timing , advance, retard, IAT, TPS and various other acronyms, but how they all work together to make an engine run eludes the masses.

if valiant tuner would step up to educate these people it would reduce the agressive overtones and promote their market share. knowledge is power (really it is, and its something that no one can steal from you)

truth will prevail, but yes there will be some that believe the man that sells snake oil -- its just human nature.

beware, engine technology is not something you can read in a little blurb online or in a magazine -- understanding little parts make you more dangerous than if you knew nothing.

if you would like to visualize the effects of detonation on a forced induction engine -- go to a drag strip and see a AA fueler launch a blower 50ft into the air -- now i know that is extreme, but think of it expontentially

I 2nd that

e90injrz · 02-21-2011, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPSlick

They had failsafes....

for the sake of the argument ,thats still a grey area. None knows if it was in working condition or not. Plus it was a 10 page blame game if i recall correctly.

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 02-21-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpheus

links?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/search.php

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90injrz

for the sake of the argument ,thats still a grey area. None knows if it was in working condition or not. Plus it was a 10 page blame game if i recall correctly.

I already know the truth. I'm just letting this guy sweat it out as he knows nothing. I havnt said anything untrue, they did HAVE failsafes. That's all I said.

Doesnt stray away from the fact that if the DME was so smart, why didnt it go into limp mode?

AltecBX · 02-21-2011, 02:34 PM

N54 Max boost pressure
335i = 8.7 psi
335is = 11..6 psi (14.5 psi for 7 seconds)

Couldn't we just see what timing is being pulled in these two different models in the same conditions. I would like to see how the Procede and JB4 result when using the same 32x and 10x sample by using the Procede software and harness running equal 14psi. This way i believe will make most board member see the real difference between both tunes. I believe Shiv this this in the past of some kind, but will like to put both of them on in autouning mode to see how they both compare to the end result(knock sensors or timing control).

Morpheus · 02-21-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clap135

No i mean any engien that blew up. Where were these limp mods and boost cuts to save the engine?

Honestly I don't know of any. Could you point me in the right direction? I think it's pretty unscientific to attribute failures to one mod in particular because it suits you.

InCityPhoto · 02-21-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clap135

Seems like you should provide the data , search for the data in this thread or inquire basic tuning logic.

This thread is done.

Summery

The plaintiff say's that because the JB system does not provide Ignition timing that the car will detonate at a unknown amount constantly and in turn damage the N54.

The Defendant say's without data knowing what the severity of each knock at certain each PSI, they are unable to determine the amount of (If any) damage that is done to the to the N54.

Morpheus · 02-21-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPSlick

http://www.e90post.com/forums/search.php

I already know the truth. I'm just letting this guy sweat it out as he knows nothing.

That's what I thought.

Clap135 · 02-21-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

This thread is done.

Summery

The plaintiff say's that because the JB system does not provide Ignition timing that the car will detonate at a unknown amount constantly and in turn damage the N54.

The Defendant say's without data knowing what the severity of each knock at certain each PSI, they are unable to determine the amount of (If any) damage that is done to the to the N54.

Please provide the defendants proof. Cause the plaintiff proof can be found in every single engine application

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 02-21-2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpheus

That's what I thought.

Feel free to send us "links" of proof of no failsafes. Oh wise one.

shifterboy45 · 02-21-2011, 02:37 PM

now i am completely baffled... where is there thread headed?

c'mon people -- can someone list the variable that will cause an engine to "knock" -- we all know its not solely a timing issue (granted its a big part of the equation)

i'll try to start it off

1. low octane fuel
2. incorrect spark advance
3.

could i get some help here??

InCityPhoto · 02-21-2011, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clap135

Please provide the defendants proof. Cause the plaintiff proof can be found in every single engine application

There is no way to post proof that it is doing anything bad or good.

02-21-2011, 02:34 PM	#345
AltecBX Colonel 344 Rep 2,663 Posts Drives: BMW 335xi Sedan; BMW M3 ZCP Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW M3 ZCP [0.00] 2007 BMW 335Xi [0.00]	N54 Max boost pressure 335i = 8.7 psi 335is = 11..6 psi (14.5 psi for 7 seconds) Couldn't we just see what timing is being pulled in these two different models in the same conditions. I would like to see how the Procede and JB4 result when using the same 32x and 10x sample by using the Procede software and harness running equal 14psi. This way i believe will make most board member see the real difference between both tunes. I believe Shiv this this in the past of some kind, but will like to put both of them on in autouning mode to see how they both compare to the end result(knock sensors or timing control). __________________ 335xi Sedan 6AT \| Weather(70-85°F) \| N54 Tune Comparison Chart \|\| N54 Turbo Upgrade Comparison Chart -PROcede Rev. 2.5 ~ v5 (3/17 maps) / JB4 (8/21 maps) / COBB (Stg2+FMIC LT Aggressive maps) †Procede Map2(UT 45 - IGN 40) Aggression Target 2.0 \| 0-60 in 4.0sec \|\| †Cobb E30 LT (35% Ethanol/65% 93 Octane) \| 0-60 in 3.9sec AR Design Catless DP \| BMS DCI + OCC \| ETS 5 FMIC \| Alpina B3 Trans Flash \|235/265 19" Michelin PSS
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02-21-2011, 02:37 PM	#351
shifterboy45 Major 23 Rep 1,179 Posts Drives: 2009 335i Coupe Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: North by Northwest iTrader: (0)	now i am completely baffled... where is there thread headed? c'mon people -- can someone list the variable that will cause an engine to "knock" -- we all know its not solely a timing issue (granted its a big part of the equation) i'll try to start it off 1. low octane fuel 2. incorrect spark advance 3. could i get some help here??
	Appreciate 0 Quote