[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Seriously you are delusional. Ham only won due to a cheating scandal that the FIA knew about and covered up all while he was also helping Mclaren steal data and IP from Ferrari. The latter being the biggest cheating scandal in F1 history where they were stripped of all points and fined $100MM.
Then the next few years Ham was anonymous in F1 despite having arguably one of the best two cars while he got trounced by Vet who wasnt all that great.

Ferrari won the constructors title in 2008 when Hamilton won the championship.

2009 -2012 Button beat Ham once, and was the same year he beat EVERYONE to win a championship. It's a theme we'll see later on. Lewis lost to him teammate when he was literally the best in the world.

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Then MB gives him an engine with 80-100 more hp than every other car in the field and he wins...hmm wonder why? He was driving an F1 car while everyone else was driving an F4 car. And only one of those drivers ever made an impression and an impressive one at that - it was Max at 17 years old having the skill and natural ability that Ham didnt have even at 23 and never did. Even Lauda who is one of the best said Max was the talent of the century - not Ham who he knew well, but Max who he knew was more talented. He worked for MB so that is telling.

Max had the skill of 23 year old Lewis?

In 2015 he was 12th place. Lewis never placed that low - if that wasn't pathetic enough he was 50points behind his teamate in 2016 AND 2017 LOL. Lewis was 5points and a DNF away from another championship - where he lost to his teammate who won the WDC.

So, it's not like Lewis is losing to smucks like Max is.

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Then in 2021 Max has the greatest all around season in modern F1 and beats Ham despite MB attempts to cheat with crashgate 2 and 3. Then in 2022 and 2023 Max has yet again progressively two more of what are the single best seasons EVER in F1 HISTORY with a solid car while Ham struggles without a massive amount of hp advantage while even his below avg teammate wins a race. Kind of crazy that you take out the cheating and the 80-100 hp and Ham's career would look like a total and utter failure
Now at just 26 Max is more accomplished in this sport and hitting milestones well before Ham could despite having a top 2 car every year of his career until this year.

Max won 10 races in his first 5 years. Lewis won 17. Lewis has won 7 WDC, 3 of which have come against teammates/Drivers who have won a WDC as well.

Sounds like bitter fruit. Max is good because he's always been good despite a 12th and 5 place finish in the 2nd best car

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Ham is the single most overrated driver in motorsport history. His skill evades him when he actually needs to race and it's quite evident. He lost to Ros - that alone tells you all you need to know about his 'talent' or lack thereof. And he needed team orders on many occasions to get past Bot - one of the worst on the grid. Now he cant even beat Rus who is a bottom of the barrel driver.

Max on the other hand absolutely destroys his teammates and everyone around him. He is a legend for being the one to knock Ham off while beating more WDC holder than anyone ever has - Kim, Ham, Vet, Alo. Max got stomped by Ric? Nope - in Max's rookie season when Ric was #2 in WDC, Max had the same number of wins and only 1 less podium despite no experience while Ric was easily one of the top F1 drivers at the time. After that Max crushed him like he did Sai, Gas, Alb etc who if you look at the grid, most of them were Max's teammates and are all highly rated and well ahead of Bot and Ros, and Rus LOL.

So overrated that the best Max could ever do against Ham was a 3rd place finish and lose to his non WDC teammate. He's pathetic and it's crazy people hype him up to be "great" Man, if he's great Hamilton must be EXCEPTIONAL in comparison, which he is.

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Sounds like bitter fruit.

Forget it, man. You're wasting your good energy.

Firstly, this is the internet. For each constructive post, there are one million trolling posts. (Arguably this post of mine may be one.)

Secondly, there's a legion of teenybop-like Verstappen fanbois here. Hard to blame them. Verstappen is indeed a phenomenal driver. I wish I had 1/10th of his driving skills. But in displaying their undying adoration for Verstappen, they'll troll and disparage everybody else. (See point above, it's the internet.) And to make matters worse, those who could tame the echo chamber of disdain, actually don't seem bothered. Go figure.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Must be on the way soon but this hard ride config miss-match has to be sorted first, thinking now what the kerb layout is in Barcelona.

Although, I was listening to Pete Windsor and he said that in the last 10 laps or so, Pia and Nor were getting graining most likely from riding the curbs whereas Max wasnt, likely because he had to modify his lines not to and therefore he was under no threat because of it.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

A lot bubbling up about Perez and the team asking him to bring the car back unsafe to avoid a safety car for Max. Yes Perez has got a 3 place grid penalty but others pushing that isn’t a big enough punishment.

I'm curious how this all plays out during the race - drivers often get back on track after tagging the wall with broken components. It was certainly loose, but drivable.

What about cars that keep driving with flat tires that eventually fall off? Front wing end plates that frequently go flying?

Are teams expected to make in-depth analysis of the structural integrity of the cars based on in the moment video footage that may or may not exist? Do the stewards step in and say what is safe and what isn't? Checo clearly can't see what's wrong with his rear wing. Or are drivers just expected to pull over and invoke a safety car any time they strike a wall for fear of financial and sporting penalties?

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Ferrari won the constructors title in 2008 when Hamilton won the championship.

2009 -2012 Button beat Ham once, and was the same year he beat EVERYONE to win a championship. It's a theme we'll see later on. Lewis lost to him teammate when he was literally the best in the world.



Max had the skill of 23 year old Lewis?

In 2015 he was 12th place. Lewis never placed that low - if that wasn't pathetic enough he was 50points behind his teamate in 2016 AND 2017 LOL. Lewis was 5points and a DNF away from another championship - where he lost to his teammate who won the WDC.

So, it's not like Lewis is losing to smucks like Max is.



Max won 10 races in his first 5 years. Lewis won 17. Lewis has won 7 WDC, 3 of which have come against teammates/Drivers who have won a WDC as well.

Sounds like bitter fruit. Max is good because he's always been good despite a 12th and 5 place finish in the 2nd best car



So overrated that the best Max could ever do against Ham was a 3rd place finish and lose to his non WDC teammate. He's pathetic and it's crazy people hype him up to be "great" Man, if he's great Hamilton must be EXCEPTIONAL in comparison, which he is.

Thank you for proving my point. Ham has has a competitive car capable of winning a WDC EVERY year of his career, whereas the first 5 years, Max was lucky if he car was the 4th fastest, yet he was able to win and score podiums on merit with a car that had no right being there. Ham has had the 2nd best car for the last 52 races (and about 2.5 seasons and counting) yet hasnt won a single race (hasnt gotten close to one) and only has several podiums to his name (none of which were on merit). In that period of time Max has won 40 races and counting. Crazy how that works isnt it?

If Ham is exceptional, Max is the best to ever grace the seat of a racing car because he makes Ham look plumb average and we still have not seen him at his best. Scary to think he's this much better than Ham could have ever dreamed to be and still has room to grow and will likely move on to win in other types of racing in which Ham never will because it will expose him more than he has been in the last 3 years+.

Tell me this, despite only winning 10 races in that awful car his first 5 years, why did Max hit 50 and 60 wins in less races than Ham did and he hasnt had the most dominant F1 car in history for 8 years in a row like Ham did. It took Ham 202 races to win 60, yet Max did it in 193 races? If you discount the fact that he didnt start in a WDC winning car right away, he has won 60 races in the last 174 and also has the single highest win % in F1 history among that many records Ham could never even dream to achieve.

Also again, Ros was never a WDC winner when racing against Ham, he quit before he ever raced as a champion. The fact that Ham has only won 7 WDCs when given 17 seasons in what was the best or second best car tells quite a lot. Max has only had 3 years with a good car and 3 WDCs. Looks like Max converts 100% of his competitive car seasons to WDC wins, yes Ham can only manage ~41%.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Thank you for proving my point. Ham has has a competitive car capable of winning a WDC EVERY year of his career, whereas the first 5 years, Max was lucky if he car was the 4th fastest, yet he was able to win and score podiums on merit with a car that had no right being there. Ham has had the 2nd best car for the last 52 races (and about 2.5 seasons and counting) yet hasnt won a single race (hasnt gotten close to one) and only has several podiums to his name (none of which were on merit). In that period of time Max has won 40 races and counting. Crazy how that works isnt it?

If Ham is exceptional, Max is the best to ever grace the seat of a racing car because he makes Ham look plumb average.

Tell me this, despite only winning 10 races in that awful car his first 5 years, why did Max hit 50 and 60 wins in less races than Ham did and he hasnt had the most dominant F1 car in history for 8 years in a row like Ham did. It took Ham 202 races to win 60, yet Max did it in 193 races? If you discount the fact that he didnt start in a WDC winning car right away, he has won 60 races in the last 174 and also has the single highest win % in F1 history among that many records Ham could never even dream to achieve.

Also again, Ros was never a WDC winner when racing against Ham, he quite

Mercedes hasn’t been second best until literally this race.

[NickyC]

I love drinking Haterade from time to time but the folks saying Max is anything less than a generational talent? You’re drinking alone on this one lol.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by NickyC

I love drinking Haterade from time to time but the folks saying Max is anything less than a generational talent? You’re drinking alone on this one lol.

If Max was British he would have been deemed the best the world has ever seen. They make a big deal out of Nor and Rus - those two guys combined I dont think will ever achieve what Max has in his 9 years in F1 so far.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

Forget it, man. You're wasting your good energy.

Firstly, this is the internet. For each constructive post, there are one million trolling posts. (Arguably this post of mine may be one.)

Secondly, there's a legion of teenybop-like Verstappen fanbois here. Hard to blame them. Verstappen is indeed a phenomenal driver. I wish I had 1/10th of his driving skills. But in displaying their undying adoration for Verstappen, they'll troll and disparage everybody else. (See point above, it's the internet.) And to make matters worse, those who could tame the echo chamber of disdain, actually don't seem bothered. Go figure.

Actually - you're right.

[Killed by Death]

Mean while at Ferrari

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Mean while at Ferrari

How you go from Monaco to 2 DNF's...feel you man. But I think we all prefer angry LEC.

[Sparky68]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Actually - you're right.

Ironic as you're the only one calling other drivers "pathetic"

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Mean while at Ferrari

Charles is the unluckiest driver ever....

[Artemis]

We all got personal tastes. Maybe you like or love the music or paintings that I like. Maybe you don't. Maybe I like or love the music or paintings that you like. Maybe I don't. It's all pretty subjective. And that's OK - diversity enriches society.

Discussing sports achievements is also mostly subjective. However, official competition results are to some extent an objective yardstick. Even if competition results, team decisions or referee decisions can be at times questionable, results get us a better global idea than simply "a dislike because that's my opinion".

Claiming that Hamilton and Verstappen are both great F1 drivers clearly complies with official F1 results. According to official F1 results, Hamilton used to be the King of F1 till 2020/2021 and Verstappen succeeded him in 2021 (or 2022 for all those who reject the Abu Dhabi 2021 outcome). But also Verstappen's kingdom will end someday.

Claiming that Verstappen is equally a great sim racer also complies with official race results. Makes him a versatile racer: great F1 driver and great sim racer. As Hamilton doesn't compete in sim racing competitions, we don't know whether he would be a great sim racer. However, based on his excellent race skills and race experience, there is a good chance that he would be.

Imagine Verstappen never making it to F1: would Hamilton still be the reigning King of F1 right now ? Would he have already left F1, satisfied having beaten the 7xWDC Schumacher F1 record ? But Verstappen did make it to F1. Imagine an F1 journalist congratulating Hamilton after his 2021 Saudi Arabia race win (Dec 5, 2021) but prophesying that he wouldn't win any of the next 50+ F1 races he'd compete in, unlike Verstappen winning dozens: who would have believed that ?

Objective - subjective: Hamilton is 39 - Verstappen is 26. As F1 is physically a very demanding sport (apart from all the mental multitasking to be processed, with the world watching every single move and whisper), that gives Verstappen and the other 'youngsters' an advantage over Hamilton (same goes for old fox Alonso). Imagine Hamilton being 26 again right now: how would 'young Hamilton' have competed against 'current Verstappen' ?

In the end, all the "Hamilton is a greater F1 driver than Verstappen" and "Verstappen is a greater F1 driver than Hamilton" discussions are pointless. And if discussions get politicized, branching further away from the sportive aspect, they usually go completely off-rails. Steer clear from that.

Verstappen's claim to fame - even a long time after he will have retired from F1 - will be the fact that, during his F1 race career he had the chance to race also against the living F1 legend Hamilton, the mighty F1 race driver considered by most to be The Greatest Of All Time who was backed by a Mercedes war machine of Toto Wolff's highly skilled troops.

As regards respect for persons, it's a different story than paintings or music taste: respect one another, period.

[GuidoK]

As far as Hamilton goes...I think he's completely crazy on a personal level.
In 2017 he sued the watch brand 'Hamilton' (that legal battle took 3 years!) over the tradename Hamilton (Lewis sued the watchbrand, not the other way around!).
That watch brand Hamilton has been around and making watches since 1892! Well over 100 years.
What kind of a person does that? Isn't that the ultimate sign of utter megalomania?

Imagine Max Verstappen sueing Pepsi Max because his name is also Max....
That would be considered totally bonkers, but Lewis did it anyways.
Why he did that is beyond me. Apparently he wasn't concerned with the damage that does this to his personal name, becoming the personification of a joke.

Needless to say Hammy lost in the european court. They were of the opinion that a 100+ year old company was allowed to use their name as trademark and that someone who was born in 1985 can't forebid that.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Mean while at Ferrari

Monaco: Ferrari.

Canada: Ferrori.

[Car-Addicted]

Hamilton's off track BS now overshadows his on track accomplishments. Not a good legacy.

[TheStoka]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Mean while at Ferrari

I’m usually the first one to jump on hating Ferrari but even I felt a little bad for them this weekend. In recent times it seems any race there is a glimmer of hope they have turned the corner next race always comes to bite.

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by Artemis

In the end, all the "Hamilton is a greater F1 driver than Verstappen" and "Verstappen is a greater F1 driver than Hamilton" discussions are pointless. And if discussions get politicized, branching further away from the sportive aspect, they usually go completely off-rails. Steer clear from that.

The last 100+ race threads followed the same script. By the same actors. You already know what they’re going to post; the same old attacks, arguments, memes, attachments, etc. And it’s beyond the Lewis-Hamilton bickering. If only somebody with means and balls to quash these endless toxic exchanges would do something. If only.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Hamilton's off track BS now overshadows his on track accomplishments. Not a good legacy.

Well Mate .There's one thing that I like about LEW...

And that is LEW's onboard radio !

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

As far as Hamilton goes...I think he's completely crazy on a personal level.
In 2017 he sued the watch brand 'Hamilton' (that legal battle took 3 years!) over the tradename Hamilton (Lewis sued the watchbrand, not the other way around!).
That watch brand Hamilton has been around and making watches since 1892! Well over 100 years.
What kind of a person does that? Isn't that the ultimate sign of utter megalomania?

Imagine Max Verstappen sueing Pepsi Max because his name is also Max....
That would be considered totally bonkers, but Lewis did it anyways.
Why he did that is beyond me. Apparently he wasn't concerned with the damage that does this to his personal name, becoming the personification of a joke.

Needless to say Hammy lost in the european court. They were of the opinion that a 100+ year old company was allowed to use their name as trademark and that someone who was born in 1985 can't forebid that.

Let's not even mention the musical show Hamilton, was playing in London's West End.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Mean while at Ferrari

All they can do is go on to the next one and Fred will show himself soon