[Chowbow]

Started taking a look around the front bumper. There's actually a duct that goes from the front of the car directly to the oil cooler. Not a very big opening up front, but it's there. If the foglight was removed, it would make more sense if another duct was made there and fed into the air duct that feeds the oil cooler. Worth the time for that? Eh, I dunno, might not be. As for the error code, I meant to just remove the foglight from it's mount. You'd have to keep it plugged in and zip tie it somewhere in the bumper.

[cb4]

Originally Posted by and 1

if it's your first DE with the car, i'd stay stock for now. "if it ain't broke...." especially if you haven't driven nhis either. i will say tho, i'd temper your expectations, given the other cars you said you'd driven.

i will probably see you there tho. if you haven't driven with the boston chapter, it's a great group of guys

Thanks for the advice. Hope to see you there!

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by Chowbow

Started taking a look around the front bumper. There's actually a duct that goes from the front of the car directly to the oil cooler. Not a very big opening up front, but it's there. If the foglight was removed, it would make more sense if another duct was made there and fed into the air duct that feeds the oil cooler. Worth the time for that? Eh, I dunno, might not be. As for the error code, I meant to just remove the foglight from it's mount. You'd have to keep it plugged in and zip tie it somewhere in the bumper.

if you remove the duct you have direct airflow to the OC. I'd start there before (re)moving the foglight.

[mid-corner fun]

sad sad day...

2 limp modes in the first 2 sessions of the day. first limp mode 2 laps before the end of the 25 min session, 2nd limp mode half-way into the 2nd session. Heater on for the 2nd session. Sessions 90min apart.

There's a fundamental difference today, at 85F ambient, water temps are not dropping on the straights, as I reported in my previous event (which was at ~60F). They're hovering at 109-111C. I don't know if they spiked higher, once you get an engine malfunction, the water temp display disappears in favor of the half engine symbol.

I'll try to read codes tonight after the event. 2 more sessions to go today and tomorrow the forecast is for 90F+ weather. sigh...

[dbjb]

Originally Posted by PeterM1

sad sad day...

2 limp modes in the first 2 sessions of the day. first limp mode 2 laps before the end of the 25 min session, 2nd limp mode half-way into the 2nd session. Heater on for the 2nd session. Sessions 90min apart.

There's a fundamental difference today, at 85F ambient, water temps are not dropping on the straights, as I reported in my previous event (which was at ~60F). They're hovering at 109-111C. I don't know if they spiked higher, once you get an engine malfunction, the water temp display disappears in favor of the half engine symbol.

I'll try to read codes tonight after the event. 2 more sessions to go today and tomorrow the forecast is for 90F+ weather. sigh...

Good luck buddy. Let us know how it all turns out and what mods/settings you used on the track. I'll be attending Infineon and Thunderhill soon and expect 90+ weather.

[acdHQK713K]

Went to Willow Springs yesterday (Big Track).

AT, 90% Distilled water + 1 Bottle of MoCool, Stock OC with thermostat spring removed. Cobb tune running 93 octane map with about 97 octane mix in the tank. Heater on for every run. Ambient temps from 80 to 90+

No limp mode, but I knew the coolant and oil temp values for limp mode so I never let it get that high. Track is also fast which probably helped keep the temps down. Highest coolant temp I think I saw was about 106.

By the end of the day fastest lap was 1:46 IIRC. Fastest spec miata is a 1:36

I now comprehend the understeer issues with the car. It plowed through turns. Instructor even commented on the understeer characteristics.

I used the Cobb AP to log several sessions. Data below. Looks like highest oil temp was 280.

Also used a program called TrackMaster from the Android market. The $10 app uses the phone's GPS signal to log data points through the session. I found that the lap times were no more than 1-2 tenths off the transponder times. With an additional bluetooth GPS device it might be even more accurate.

[mid-corner fun]

that's a lot of split markers!

I use trackmaster too, the track I'm at today is not on google maps yet so I have to do the whole lapping off for the first session and overlay the data to create a session manually stuff...

A square setup will help with the other issue below. good luck

Originally Posted by Stangorang

Went to Willow Springs yesterday (Big Track).

AT, 90% Distilled water + 1 Bottle of MoCool, Stock OC with thermostat spring removed. Cobb tune running 93 octane map with about 97 octane mix in the tank. Heater on for every run. Ambient temps from 80 to 90+

No limp mode, but I knew the coolant and oil temp values for limp mode so I never let it get that high. Track is also fast which probably helped keep the temps down. Highest coolant temp I think I saw was about 106.

By the end of the day fastest lap was 1:46 IIRC. Fastest spec miata is a 1:36

I now comprehend the understeer issues with the car. It plowed through turns. Instructor even commented on the understeer characteristics.

I used the Cobb AP to log several sessions. Data below. Looks like highest oil temp was 280.

Also used a program called TrackMaster from the Android market. The $10 app uses the phone's GPS signal to log data points through the session. I found that the lap times were no more than 1-2 tenths off the transponder times. With an additional bluetooth GPS device it might be even more accurate.

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by PeterM1

that's a lot of split markers!

I use trackmaster too, the track I'm at today is not on google maps yet so I have to do the whole lapping off for the first session and overlay the data to create a session manually stuff...

A square setup will help with the other issue below. good luck

There was no rhyme or reason to my split market placement. Didn't fully understand how the program works and was in a rush. I will use fewer and better placed ones next time

[mid-corner fun]

I'm convinced there's something else triggering limp modes, other than water and oil temps.

Here's a video with 5 engine malfunctions, in 8 sessions. The 5th limp mode occurred on lap 1 (!!!) of session 2, day 2. ambient 75F, water at 105C and oil at ~210F. All limp modes seem to happen right at the 3rd/4th gear shift.

I pit it, restarted the car without cooling it down and mentally decided to drive at 8/10s for the rest of the day. Went out and spent the rest of the day, including 2 x 30min sessions in advanced, with zero limp modes...

[Chowbow]

Did you have a code reader to check out what the codes were? I'll remember to bring mine out with me just in case I come across some irregularities.

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by Chowbow

Did you have a code reader to check out what the codes were? I'll remember to bring mine out with me just in case I come across some irregularities.

yeah, nothing new. Just a bunch of 3100s (limp modes).

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by PeterM1

yeah, nothing new. Just a bunch of 3100s (limp modes).

What is your strategy for gear selection with the AT? I found myself actively avoiding setting off the kick down switch to stay in the selected gear, but when I reviewed my Cobb logs, according the accessport that only equates to a TPS of 81% (aka not WOT).

Edit: It appears that value is full WOT.

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by Stangorang

What is your strategy for gear selection with the AT? I found myself actively avoiding setting off the kick down switch to stay in the selected gear, but when I reviewed my Cobb logs, according the accessport that only equates to a TPS of 81% (aka not WOT).

3rd to 4th before 6000 rpm. 4th to 5th, a bit more but that's only for the main straight.

Unfortunately I don't have a way to datalog without a laptop which is not going to happen on the track, glad to see you have access to that data. Were you under the impression that you were at WOT (right above kickdown) when you got the 81% TPS reading?

I use a wooden block to avoid kickdown, although I apparently have the opposite problem, I sometimes downshift to 3rd too early on the end of the main straight and the engine upshifts on its own back to 4th.

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by PeterM1

3rd to 4th before 6000 rpm. 4th to 5th, a bit more but that's only for the main straight.

Unfortunately I don't have a way to datalog without a laptop which is not going to happen on the track, glad to see you have access to that data. Were you under the impression that you were at WOT (right above kickdown) when you got the 81% TPS reading?

I use a wooden block to avoid kickdown, although I apparently have the opposite problem, I sometimes downshift to 3rd too early on the end of the main straight and the engine upshifts on its own back to 4th.

I see, thanks for the response. I think I was incorrect, the car is at WOT just before you trip the kickdown. All the other datalogs for Cobb show 81% for the TPS max. I guess I don't fully understand the meaning of that value.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by PeterM1

sad sad day...

2 limp modes in the first 2 sessions of the day. first limp mode 2 laps before the end of the 25 min session, 2nd limp mode half-way into the 2nd session. Heater on for the 2nd session. Sessions 90min apart.

There's a fundamental difference today, at 85F ambient, water temps are not dropping on the straights, as I reported in my previous event (which was at ~60F). They're hovering at 109-111C. I don't know if they spiked higher, once you get an engine malfunction, the water temp display disappears in favor of the half engine symbol.

I'll try to read codes tonight after the event. 2 more sessions to go today and tomorrow the forecast is for 90F+ weather. sigh...

Sorry, to hear that brother! Like I was saying, with the 6AT, No oil cooler can save you from the heat over 75F. I knew once you guys see 85+ degree weather with some nice humidity, your temps would simply be an issue, period.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by PeterM1

yeah, nothing new. Just a bunch of 3100s (limp modes).

Intake charge signal. Maybe its because your IATs were really high?

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

Intake charge signal. Maybe its because your IATs were really high?

you could be right, it's frustrating I can't datalog on these events. Waiting for a limp mode to occur and try to decipher it later on is not ideal, I'd rather be proactive. Is Cobb the only solution at this point that let's you datalog without a laptop?

IATs should not be that high on the 5th limp though, it occurred on lap 1. I have an ETS FMIC so IATs should be controlled, for a while at least.

I'm taking a break in July, I'll need to decide what to do next, going out there knowing I can't push it beyond 8/10s won't help me improve.

[TurboBimmer]

What other mods do you have on your car? Also, which device do you use to read the codes? Not all OBD readers can read all codes. 3100 is just the generic "limp mode" code.

Maybe you can recreate it on the street whilst data logging, as it occured in your very first lap?

I've heard about similar cases which could be traced back to VANOS problems.

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by Autobahn335i

What other mods do you have on your car? Also, which device do you use to read the codes? Not all OBD readers can read all codes. 3100 is just the generic "limp mode" code.

Maybe you can recreate it on the street whilst data logging, as it occured in your very first lap?

I've heard about similar cases which could be traced back to VANOS problems.

BT cable. No VANOS codes this time around, just 3100. I had a VANOS code earlier this year and replaced the lower solenoid, haven't seen this code return yet.

Quaife, ETS FMIC, Stett OC, DCI, running on stock (bypass) boost half the time. I doubt I'll be able to reproduce this at the street but it's worth datalogging to see if anything odd pops up, I'll let you guys know what I find.

[Martin_hbg]

Peter, you state that your oil temperatures did not rise above 260F. This is promising unless you were truly only driving at 8/10's or less all day due to your non heat related limp modes.

109C coolant temps in my experience is normal and should probably be considered under control?.

I run stock coolant, 6MT, AR OC, ETS FMIC and it takes at least 4-5 laps (Sebring, FL 85+ Degrees) pushing it hard to go above ~111-112C. Once I reach 113C it quickly spikes to 117C and i lose power.

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by Martin_hbg

Peter, you state that your oil temperatures did not rise above 260F. This is promising unless you were truly only driving at 8/10's or less all day due to your non heat related limp modes.

109C coolant temps in my experience is normal and should probably be considered under control?.

I run stock coolant, 6MT, AR OC, ETS FMIC and it takes at least 4-5 laps (Sebring, FL 85+ Degrees) pushing it hard to go above ~111-112C. Once I reach 113C it quickly spikes to 117C and i lose power.

yep, that's why I mentioned that something else is going on, other than oil and water temps.

I was driving at 10/10s when I got the limp modes. Zero limp modes at 8/10s. Oil/water temps below thresholds at 10/10s.

[Chowbow]

I was under the impression that 117*C is the temp when the ECU puts the car into limp mode. Is that not correct? Or I'm at least sure that's pretty darn close. Do you guys know the exact temp?