[klipseracer]

Originally Posted by A418t81

While I can understand where you are coming from on a few of your points, the fact remains that the open source ECU tuning market really started with the Evo about 7 or 8 years ago and it wasn't done your way. Back then the software, ROM definitions, and flashing capabilities were all included, but you had to purchase a specific cable for around $100. It was not truly "open source" as the flashing routine, etc were all closed source, but it allowed anybody to flash anything....and people with the skills and time to discover, define, and integrate any other maps in the ROM that they wanted to on their own time.

My case in point. I'm well familiar with how the evo tuning market turned out. Its great. And this project will no doubt be great, I don't think I've EVER contested that. I'm simply saying, this project started out as one thing, an open source flashing software and has turned into a commercial project. Again, I'm not here to tell anyone what to do with their time or how to compensate themselves for their time, as Shiv seems to have fun trying to make me appear, I am against clinging to open source when its not. This was an open source DME Flashing Project. Not a "Commercial Tuning Software with Unlocked Maps". VERY different. Some people can't understand the biggest value is in the firmware and the ability to modify the DME logic, the tuning is the byproduct benefit.

While Rombinhood's software may not be truly open source, that doesn't mean that it isn't going to revolutionize the flashing community here, just like it did in other markets. Stop bitching about it and be glad that there is another option which will allow you and me infinitely more freedom than the ATR. I guarantee you that Cobb will keep a close eye on the open source scene and make improvements to their own software based on what all is discovered and implemented once this thing is up and rolling over here. The collective might of a lot of smart people donating time to the project always eclipses anything a couple of over-worked, and underpaid engineers put together in some back room.

I agree. I think regardless of what this costs it will be a great thing. But my INTEREST, is DME FLASHING PROJECT. Not Tuning software with unlocked maps. Maybe everyone should go back to the first post and see where this really started and the title of this thread.

So Shiv and co, stop trying to make me appear to be someone who is naysaying the benefits of this as they are obvious. You don't need to defend his rights to make money, which are obviously on shady ground. You take something risky he's done and then try to say its a reason to charge for it? If anything that should be a reason to NOT charge for it if you honestly recognize the risks you've taken. He's input time and effort. If he feels he needs to charge, then by all means I would likely do the same. But lets drop the open source and DME flashing aspect of things as thats not really what this is. I've not once stated he shouldn't be able to make money. But Its obviously quite clear what this project is and is not and I was hoping this would lead to more control of the DME. The tuning flexibility is a great thing.

[secretsquirrel]

Originally Posted by klipseracer

So Shiv and co, stop trying to make me appear to be someone who is naysaying the benefits of this as they are obvious. You don't need to defend his rights to make money, which are obviously on shady ground. You take something risky he's done and then try to say its a reason to charge for it? If anything that should be a reason to NOT charge for it if you honestly recognize the risks you've taken. He's input time and effort. If he feels he needs to charge, then by all means I would likely do the same. But lets drop the open source and DME flashing aspect of things as thats not really what this is. I've not once stated he shouldn't be able to make money. But Its obviously quite clear what this project is and is not and I was hoping this would lead to more control of the DME. The tuning flexibility is a great thing.

Why are you still griping? Exhale, sit back and relax and wait for the project to be released before griping about what it is and what it is not. Please?

[klipseracer]

Originally Posted by secretsquirrel

Why are you still griping? Exhale, sit back and relax and wait for the project to be released before griping about what it is and what it is not. Please?

Okie doke. Had to say it so now that its out I'm done. I think he's doing an amazing job, I am just simply disappointed that it seems that the code on how to communicate with the DME will be closed source. Thats all. Regardless, keep up the good work, I'm waiting for Independence Day and please consider opening the firmware source.

[V8bait]

These arguments are pointless before the release of the device and software. People arguing have a glorified idea of what open source means for cars. I use open source tuning on plenty of cars, it doesn't mean you don't need to buy additional hardware to support it. Be it a willem eprom burner, chip adapters, emulators, various cables... open source means different things to different platforms and different communities. You cannot begin to compare tuning a car with open source options to XDA dev or github and linux projects. That's like comparing an apple to a pair of shoes.

[akotten]

Originally Posted by V8bait

These arguments are pointless before the release of the device and software. People arguing have a glorified idea of what open source means for cars. I use open source tuning on plenty of cars, it doesn't mean you don't need to buy additional hardware to support it. Be it a willem eprom burner, chip adapters, emulators, various cables... open source means different things to different platforms and different communities. You cannot begin to compare tuning a car with open source options to XDA dev or github and linux projects. That's like comparing an apple to a pair of shoes.

Thank you.

[Rombinhood@OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by V8bait

These arguments are pointless before the release of the device and software. People arguing have a glorified idea of what open source means for cars. I use open source tuning on plenty of cars, it doesn't mean you don't need to buy additional hardware to support it. Be it a willem eprom burner, chip adapters, emulators, various cables... open source means different things to different platforms and different communities. You cannot begin to compare tuning a car with open source options to XDA dev or github and linux projects. That's like comparing an apple to a pair of shoes.

[klipseracer]

Originally Posted by V8bait

These arguments are pointless before the release of the device and software. People arguing have a glorified idea of what open source means for cars. I use open source tuning on plenty of cars, it doesn't mean you don't need to buy additional hardware to support it. Be it a willem eprom burner, chip adapters, emulators, various cables... open source means different things to different platforms and different communities. You cannot begin to compare tuning a car with open source options to XDA dev or github and linux projects. That's like comparing an apple to a pair of shoes.

It doesn't really matter at this point anymore. The project is what the author makes it, but its not what I had hoped. Thats all.

EDIT:

I guess this is what really got me interested and we've strayed from that.

I've always felt that owners should have the ability to modify their ROM file as they see fit, in an open source environment.

Either way, should be a great product. Changing the dme logic as was mentioned earlier, "Removing the o2 sensors from the manifold" etc is what I was hoping for... This type of project. I'm curious if the DME logic itself is accessible by Rombinhood or just the mapping information? I think many of us would be interested in the 'open source' code for what you are able to do with your "$15 hacked ebay cable".

[Lunatic Fringe]

Seriously brah, you need to know when to quit. I think it's time you go work on your E90 to 98 Civic conversion. You're doing a dashing job so far.

[Dave W.]

Klipse, it seems like you're asking for 3 different things. 1. full access and ability to tune the DME tables, 2. ability to view and change the coded instructions in the DME, and 3. the ability to view and change the program that operates the flashing cable and flashes the DME. Have I got this right?

[Kabnine]

Originally Posted by Dave W.

Klipse, it seems like you're asking for 3 different things. 1. full access and ability to tune the DME tables, 2. ability to view and change the coded instructions in the DME, and 3. the ability to view and change the program that operates the flashing cable and flashes the DME. Have I got this right?

Those are all part of the same thing. Complete open source.

[madbim]

While I understand some people's discontent with labeling something as truly "opensource" when it may not be; I do believe whatever comes of this project will be a step in the right direction. With that being said the maintainers have my full support!

Side note- Robinhood any chance you can crack the CCC iDrive, not sure what is possible with the hardware or software but some customization would be pretty sweet.

[themyst]

if the device and software come in not much cheaper than a used AP then the general public will respond by not purchasing. why not just sit back and see what happens when its announced? its just unnecessary banter at this point.

I for one predict the open source community and support will be limited at best on this platform. but lets wait and see.

[New JerZ]

Sorry I agree with klip. This seemed to start out as one thing and has now morphed into a vishnu production with all the hints and marketing controlled by Vishnu. There was a point when romb was actively updating the thread and asking for help (true open source work ), enter shiv..... all that stopped because shiv is trying to protect intellectual property and that is the exact opposite of what open source means to EVERY platform. I am excited to see what comes of this but also very disappointed that at least at the surface this seems to have taken a wrong turn somewhere.

[Bluesun]

Originally Posted by New JerZ

Sorry I agree with klip. This seemed to start out as one thing and has now morphed into a vishnu production with all the hints and marketing controlled by Vishnu. There was a point when romb was actively updating the thread and asking for help (true open source work ), enter shiv..... all that stopped because shiv is trying to protect intellectual property and that is the exact opposite of what open source means to EVERY platform. I am excited to see what comes of this but also very disappointed that at least at the surface this seems to have taken a wrong turn somewhere.

I agree completely, with emphasis on the bolded text. What started as "look at this open source project for this great community to build upon" a few pages later seems to be "wait for this great release date, will be on sale".

I know there's hate back and forth between tuners for one reason or another, and I have no dog in that fight either way. I have to say that I remain cautiously optimistic. If, however, this does turn into a money making scheme like some are fearing, it's possible that another group could try to fill the niche left.

Either way why are people jumping on klipseracer for calling it as he sees it? I think his cynicism is warranted and not without precedent.

That said, if this turns out as a fully open source project as I initially thought, I'm definitely on board to invest some hours toward its progression!

[klipseracer]

Originally Posted by madbim

While I understand some people's discontent with labeling something as truly "opensource" when it may not be; I do believe whatever comes of this project will be a step in the right direction. With that being said the maintainers have my full support!

Side note- Robinhood any chance you can crack the CCC iDrive, not sure what is possible with the hardware or software but some customization would be pretty sweet.

BAM! This is exactly the type of stuff I'm talking about. Getting into the CAS/CCC and other guts of this car. You guys can continue to try and disect my posts, but lets see what this turns out to be. It may not even be possible to do what I want with his project, open or closed source.

[klipseracer]

Originally Posted by Lunatic Fringe

Seriously brah, you need to know when to quit. I think it's time you go work on your E90 to 98 Civic conversion. You're doing a dashing job so far.

Hows your lease? lol

[enrita]

Originally Posted by klipseracer

Hows your lease? lol

On your side on this... Typical

[froop]

You guys bashing on this project need to just chill...

I've read this thread from start to finish and from what I can see, it appears as though Shiv has just offered to provide the different ROM files and not much else. All of the other work appears to be done by rombin and his colleagues. There's no confirmation from anyone that Shiv let alone rombin have any sort of financial interest in this project whatsoever.

Also, without further information everything is just speculation at this point so there's no point getting all worked up about it. If it's released and it works as well as being cheap then good for all of us. If it costs a shitload (which I doubt) well then good for the few of us that are willing to pay. If it sucks (which I also doubt) then no harm done, other than the countless hours and sleepless nights you guys spent worrying about nothing.

Bottom line, just wait 9 more days and we'll see what's what.

[rismo]

Outside all discussions.. To make this project the ultimate breakthrough... hack the DCT and AT controllers... that would lead us absolutely to new territory...

By the way, I'm just happy people are spending time on this.. why assume that one person can judge on other persons (hobby)work.
Open source or whatever (I'm in IT, there are 1.000.000 forms of OS) isn't that relevant.. it's the outcome and above all.. I think Robim is free to day to whatever he wants isn't it? If he want's to share, very very cool, if not... you won't miss a thing, as it isn't available now either... so... just wait and see... or develop your own... and share it if you like that... I would support anybody with that when possible...

[3000GT MR]

I can't wait for this. Robinhood keep doing your thing, people will appreciate this more than anything.

I love how some people are knocking this and then ask him to crack other modules. If this isn't for you there are other threads on this forum. Most won't even know what to do with it anyways. I can't wait for people to start blowing up motors just to blame the open source because it allowed them to

[themyst]

Originally Posted by 3000GT MR

I can't wait for this. Robinhood keep doing your thing, people will appreciate this more than anything.

I love how some people are knocking this and then ask him to crack other modules. If this isn't for you there are other threads on this forum. Most won't even know what to do with it anyways. I can't wait for people to start blowing up motors just to blame the open source because it allowed them to

if this were true we'd have seen plenty of blown motors by atr users.

[rismo]

But still.. what rights do we have to value someone's direction? So interesting to see that people grant rights on developments while they do not even participate...

Besides the whole Shiv discussion... So someone decides to bake a applepie. Post this on the internet, then the same persons decides it should be a chocolate pie... isn't he completely free to do so? And if he wants to eat this with the president of China, he is still free to do so? Isn't it?

Very interesting to see all the claims people seem to make on other people's work...

Or am I completely from another planet?