[Orb]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Have a few years under my belt as well in designing and implementing industrial control system which rely on flow for various functions.

Anyway, why not just yank off the airbox and put it on a flow bench.

Don't have access to one anymore and we even had two turbo test stands.

Orb

[M4TW]

Originally Posted by npb

no problem...been discussing turbo's for at least 5 or 6 years now.
I believe that ambient temperature has a litttle bit more effect on engine and turbo performance than intercooler performance. (why do race cars have intakes OUTSIDE the engine bay??!) However, ambient temperature IS vital to the performance of both.

scenario (high ambient temp): less oxygen in one cubit foot of air vs. colder air. poorer combustion because of less oxygen. intercooler is not able to efficiently cool intake air because of the high ambient temperature, therefore, higher ambient intake temps all around.

scenario (low ambient temp): the denser, colder air contains more oxygen per cubic foot, therefore, better efficiency and combustion. the cooler air also cools the intercooler.

makes sense that you weren't able to distinguish performance between cold (0 and
super cold -30), but you WERE able to tell between 30c and the two colder temps.)
lesson: cold is good.
sorry if this is incoherent, kinda drunk.

add on:
someone used a graphic from howstuffworks that was good, but this is a good explanation about how turgo's work in a sytem and how ambient temps affect performance.

I think we can agree that as the lateness of the hour increases, the percentage of posting under the influence reaches maximum efficiency.

Thanks for the diagram!! I was going off information that someone had published on the web with his turboed Volvo to the effect that his measured temperature change between post-compressor and post-IC was less on a colder day. I should take it with a grain of salt I guess.

A question I have is how an aftermarket IC can achieve both less pressure and more cooling as they would seem to me to be opposing forces - the engineering equivalent of having your cake and eating it to? If it is so easy, why didn't BMW design a better FMIC given it would lengthen the life of the turbos? Or perhaps, by their calculations, the factory IC works well enough with stock boost to give the turboes an acceptable lifespan. Perhaps further, the same lifespan can be maintained with increased boost provided it's paired with a better IC.

I am working my way you see to being able to justify to the missus the need for yet another expensive mod for my already expensive car. I will at least be armed with ireffutable engineering mumbo jumbo in the ensuing debate.

Sorry if I've detracted from the discussion of the harmful effects of packing peanuts.

[KWA VaTech]

Originally Posted by Sparkplug

I think we can agree that as the lateness of the hour increases, the percentage of posting under the influence reaches maximum efficiency.

Thanks for the diagram!! I was going off information that someone had published on the web with his turboed Volvo to the effect that his measured temperature change between post-compressor and post-IC was less on a colder day. I should take it with a grain of salt I guess.

A question I have is how an aftermarket IC can achieve both less pressure and more cooling as they would seem to me to be opposing forces - the engineering equivalent of having your cake and eating it to? If it is so easy, why didn't BMW design a better FMIC given it would lengthen the life of the turbos? Or perhaps, by their calculations, the factory IC works well enough with stock boost to give the turboes an acceptable lifespan. Perhaps further, the same lifespan can be maintained with increased boost provided it's paired with a better IC.

I am working my way you see to being able to justify to the missus the need for yet another expensive mod for my already expensive car. I will at least be armed with ireffutable engineering mumbo jumbo in the ensuing debate.

Sorry if I've detracted from the discussion of the harmful effects of packing peanuts.

First off you are correct they are competing forces but, you can always improve on something

One can make a better IC (both from a pressure drop and heat transfer standpoint) a number of different ways.

One is engineering it a little better. Take a look at where the baffles are, are they blocking internal or external air flow. Where is your flow rate going to be the highest, increase the amount of transfer surface here. For example if you have a huge IC with part of it hid by the bumper resulting in low flow, that part is essentially a radiating body and not doing a whole lot. You would rather make it a little thicker in the area of increased flow. You may end up with a smaller but thicker IC or vise versa. There is a fine balance here and you will want to shoot for the optimum with what you have to work with.

More improvements can be made by using certain materials. Aluminum has a high thermal conductance. But, making some type of alloy may allow you to make the walls a little thinner and thus promote conductance. You don’t want the IC to necessary conduct easy across itself. For example you don’t want the heat moving from the hot to the cold side very easily so, install some thin sections or breaks there.

Knowing thermo, that’s my first stab at it. Just know there are always improvements to be made as long as there is money!

[Numb3rs]

Originally Posted by E82tt6

I think you need to re-read what I said in my post.

I didn't say the piggyback had more control over the engine than the ECU. I said that Vishnu altered/controlled more than Dinan does.

If you can point out anywhere that Dinan has said otherwise, I'm all ears. In the meantime, calm down kiddo. You seem kinda up-tight, and quick to jump on people without reading what they actually wrote. You're probably just in a bad mood, so I won't take it personally, but your reading comprehension doesn't seem to be up to speed.

As for how Dinan does or doesn't engineer their products, I'm SURE if they did anything close to what I suggested, they'd be real quick to let you know about it. I HIGHLY doubt that they did. It doesn't make sense for them to do that, when they could just do what they did. Crank an extra 40rwhp out of the motor (well within BMW's tolerances) and call it a day.

Sorry if you missed any of that the first time. Let me know if it's more clear now!

Hunh?

Look, I am not trying to start an argument, but everything your saying is just wild speculation and quite frankly a tad ignorant. Do you know for certain that Vishnu controls more engine management functions that Dinan does..? The simple fact of the matter is, you don't!

We do know that Dinan has control of the ECU and that Shiv does not. Which also means that Dinan has access to considerably way more engine management functions than any piggyback. If you want proof, the mere fact that Dinan has control of the water pump should be a slight indicator that your crusade is based on zealotry and not fact. I'm sure Shiv will chime in and say he can do that if he wanted (new harness, etc), but thats not the point, is it?

Secondly, you have no idea what Dinan has refined within their tune or what they are controlling, so your whole point is still speculative and without merit. Not-to-mention ignorant on your part, since this was already somewhat hashed out between Shiv and Mr. Conforti (lndshrk).

Thirdly, Dinan does use a set procedure for tuning their cars, perhaps instead of spouting off such banter, you might want to just educate yourself on their tuning procedures and methodology. Nothing fancy mind you, but it does show an engineering control method.


I have no stake in Dinan and have no reason to defend them, but it was YOU that seemed "kinda up-tight" in your posts and started to rant and compare Vishnu's control over the N54 to Dinan's. Which, to me, was laughable because a piggyback just cannot equal an ECU in function. FACT!

As I have said before, I have no issues with piggybacks or companies that make them. I just took issue with your over-the-top statements that lacked proof or merit.

[BALLAJL15]

Just spoke wit the service advisor... let me know that I wont need a new engine because yesterday when I went to go look at the car they were thinking the engine couldnt keep compression and was gone. After a leak down and compression test the back 2 cylinders are just slightly lower than the others... so tomorrow they are going to run about 40 miles on it to make sure it burns off all the excess oil and to make sure its in good shape. On a side note, I will be at Bimmerfest and I will bring both turbos with me as I will be showing Shiv the bearing failure.

[Orb]

Originally Posted by BALLAJL15

Just spoke wit the service advisor... let me know that I wont need a new engine because yesterday when I went to go look at the car they were thinking the engine couldnt keep compression and was gone. After a leak down and compression test the back 2 cylinders are just slightly lower than the others... so tomorrow they are going to run about 40 miles on it to make sure it burns off all the excess oil and to make sure its in good shape. On a side note, I will be at Bimmerfest and I will bring both turbos with me as I will be showing Shiv the bearing failure.

Are you saying both turbos had bearing failure. Can you be a bit more specific because this make a huge differance.

Orb

[BALLAJL15]

The dealer claims both had bearing failure... the back turbo for sure is done. I can wiggle the shaft a lot. I didnt see the other turbo yesterday but when they inspected it by listening to it they could hear a whine so thats why they replaced both of them

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by BALLAJL15

Just spoke wit the service advisor... let me know that I wont need a new engine because yesterday when I went to go look at the car they were thinking the engine couldnt keep compression and was gone. After a leak down and compression test the back 2 cylinders are just slightly lower than the others... so tomorrow they are going to run about 40 miles on it to make sure it burns off all the excess oil and to make sure its in good shape. On a side note, I will be at Bimmerfest and I will bring both turbos with me as I will be showing Shiv the bearing failure.

The question is what caused it get a sample of oil and send it off.

[BALLAJL15]

Exactly, I am going to have them inspected by a turbo shop to determine the cause of the bearing failure.

[Orb]

Originally Posted by O-cha

The question is what caused it get a sample of oil and send it off.

One time only....i finally agree with you.

Orb

[Orb]

Originally Posted by BALLAJL15

Exactly, I am going to have them inspected by a turbo shop to determine the cause of the bearing failure.

Thanks for sharing the info.

Orb

[Mr. 5]

Wow, I was a little late with this one.
Great stuff in here.

I noticed that my name has been mentioned a couple times in here with comparing the problem that I had with turbos failing.
Well, I'll tell you guys that a wastegate actuator issue is completely different than turbos whining.

My issue is resolved, thanks to BMWNA.
This issue sounds much more severe.

Here's my vid:

[u2b]ZYz1Flx5X8k&feature=related[/u2b]

Here's the vid posted in the first page:

[O-cha]

I still don't think that whine is a sign of failure.

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by O-cha

I still don't think that whine is a sign of failure.

Matter of time, IMHO. My B5 S4 (with GIAC software) sounded like that for 10k miles before poof.

-Rob

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by rwalker

Matter of time, IMHO. My B5 S4 (with GIAC software) sounded like that for 10k miles before poof.

-Rob

What was the cause?

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by O-cha

I still don't think that whine is a sign of failure.

I agree, like I said: I heard a brand new 335i with this noise

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by 335lvr

I agree, like I said: I heard a brand new 335i with this noise

They really sound this loud when driving around town?
This is those same turbos from inside the car:

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

They really sound this loud when driving around town?
This is those same turbos from inside the car:

Ok now that sounds excessive. What did you do about it?

[stressdoc]

Awesome, you have the turbos. First question is what does the compressor wheel look like? Any evidence of impact?

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

They really sound this loud when driving around town?
This is those same turbos from inside the car:

Not that loud, but noticeable especially when cold (like that car in the video) looked like well below 180

[E30M3Driver]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Awesome, you have the turbos. First question is what does the compressor wheel look like? Any evidence of impact?

Sounded like not, but then what impact print would a packing peanut leave

[Numb3rs]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Awesome, you have the turbos. First question is what does the compressor wheel look like? Any evidence of impact?

+10
Any pictures of it, some of us are not attending Bimmerfest.