[OpenFlash]

Keep in mind that $10k price people like to toss around includes downpipe, pwm meth kit, charge pipe and Procede Rev3 with dme flash. Add that those extras to a set of $3500+core hybrid turbos and the difference isn't as big as some people have been arguing.

[Tzu]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Not having big torque at 2000rpm isn't relevant to any forum of acceleration outside of a tractor pull.

...and thats why you threw in a 3.48 diff while gaining an extra shift?

[chumley]

Not taken sides in what is obviously a debate that's less about the OP question than it is personal BUT - in this instance I'd have to say the obvious choice is the single.

The OP suggests that he is buying a SECOND E90 to make his "monster". Why on earth would he give a crap about having a "stock-like look" or for that matter a stock-like anything? If I loved the platform enough to buy two of the same car, I would go all out.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Tzu

...and thats why you threw in a 3.48 diff while gaining an extra shift?

Nope, I installed a 3.46 so I could eventually run 28" racing slicks without making the gearing absurdly tall. For those not looking to cut 1.5s 60' times with a 6mt, it's completely unneccesary. The 3.08 is plenty of fun when you have 550lbs until redline.

[Chefcg1]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Keep in mind that $10k price people like to toss around includes downpipe, pwm meth kit, charge pipe and Procede Rev3 with dme flash. Add that those extras to a set of $3500+core hybrid turbos and the difference isn't as big as some people have been arguing.

very true!

[benzy89]

I mean, 99% of people who buy RBs already have DPs, Meth, Charge Pipe, Intake, upgradded DVs/BOV. With the single, it requires a new DP (obviously), so that's not exactly a fair comparison.

Just from quickly looking at the kit off of the Vishnu website, the kits START at just under $7k (which is is about twice the price of RBs). I'm not bashing anyone here, just stating simple dollar & cents.

Bottom line is IF absolute power is your goal & money isn't an issue, the single kit is the ultimate solution

[Dave W.]

if you already have upgraded DP's you can easily sell them and make a few bucks back.
no big deal.

[Tiago@VRSF]

People should really consider the power band you're looking for too. Although the RB's aren't going to produce a peak HP gain like the big single will, you'll have a much larger/broader power band in comparison to the stock twins.

I'd personally go big single but it comes down to how you plan on using the car.

[dicostal]

can you use any tune with the RB turbos? For example I currently have GIAC, if I upgrade the turbos would i get any gains or would I need a tune?

thank you

[Tiago@VRSF]

You'd need a new tune.

[benzy89]

Originally Posted by dicostal

can you use any tune with the RB turbos? For example I currently have GIAC, if I upgrade the turbos would i get any gains or would I need a tune?

thank you

Unless GIAC will make a custom tune for your upgradded turbos (which they might already), you'd prob be better off with COBB, JB4 or PROcede

[kenneth]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

People should really consider the power band you're looking for too. Although the RB's aren't going to produce a peak HP gain like the big single will, you'll have a much larger/broader power band in comparison to the stock twins.

I'd personally go big single but it comes down to how you plan on using the car.

I have asked a few times, I think, whether the big single would be a better fit than the RBs for road course driving, but have not had any feedback.

From this, I can only speculate that either RBs may be better for the task or that Vishnu is not targeting this market at all, or both.

[boostaholic786]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I'm not sure where the single turbo setup isnt "proven" with respect to reliability. We have put our single turbo test cars to far more rigorous testing than we have ever put any hybrids turbo upgrade up to. As for engine stress, a single turbo will induce far lower thermal and backpressure loads at any give power level. Which means a single turbo making 500whp will be far less stressful to an engine running a set of hybrid twins at 500whp. The clutch requirements will also be lower with the single turbo because it is able to make less peak torque since it will instead hold it to redline.

It seems that everyone who is recommending the RB turbos over the single haven't driven a single that makes the same or more power. At the end of the day, the RBs provide a nice ~70-80whp over stock twins. The single provides 200-240whp over stock twins with still room to grow. Of course, it will cost extra. But that is expected since you are getting an entire turbo system wirh tubular manifold as opposed to a core exchanged turbo. Neither solution is better than the other since the ideal turbo will vary from person to person. But I will argue that 80% of people who actually drive a ceramic BB single turbo, and feel/hear it can do in their driving environment, will never go back to any Mitsubishi twins, stock or otherwise. Because going from RBs to a single certainly feels more dramatic going from stock to RBs.

Shiv, so you think there will be THAT much of a difference with your single turbo set up? More dramatic than going from stock to RB's? I have been very curious, and I mean very curious at what the single drives like in comparison to the twin RB's set up...You are right about the motor with the single and how it will be less stress on the motor itself. I think it is an excellent option for someone like myself lol that wants to go all out..hence why I'm researching the hell out of it and trying to see if its worth the $$ and if its going to be a reliable and useable setup for being a DD car... I know RB's hold there value very well, and probably have 20 people/friends that I know that would want mine. Its just very difficult to justify a 100whp with a completely different setup going from a JB4 RB car to a Vishnu single turbo set up. Especially since how incredible Terry and his customer service is He does have the most incredible customer service, an excellent fail proof product (JB4), and just makes things very easy, well atleast for me. I know he actually goes thru some, not all of the emails he gets which means alot. Jumping from one boat to the other is something that is going to be very difficult, especially with me being a die hard JB4 user But I also LOVE going fast

[kenneth]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Keep in mind that $10k price people like to toss around includes downpipe, pwm meth kit, charge pipe and Procede Rev3 with dme flash. Add that those extras to a set of $3500+core hybrid turbos and the difference isn't as big as some people have been arguing.

Kit $6,750
Y configured Dp Outlet $250
AEM .5 bar sensor $150
Recirculated WG discharge $250
Ceramic BB CHRA $595 (it would not make much sense, not getting this)

So roughly $8k, assuming you already have the Procede etc.

[neilvosko]

For second car why not 135i, lighter same engine?

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

When choosing a turbo upgrade option, figure out what kind of max power you want to make and how you want to make it. RBs can support a max of 500-520whp with race gas and meth. Our single turbo will support 650whp with pump and meth with room to grow. Some will be happy with less while some with want more. Just be careful going with something that will leave you wanting more since re-installing a different turbo kit, later on, is quite time/$ consuming.

Its pretty misleading saying the upgraded turbochargers can support 500-520 on race gas and meth while claiming a single can support a hundred more on pump gas. Turbos move air, the more air you move the more fuel you can burn and power you can make. A big single will have more power potential thats no question. BUT you can run upgraded turbochargers on pump gas with or without meth and as long as you have addressed other areas, DP's, FMIC, Tune, etc. You can have great power gains. Obviously using meth will net you more power and lower IATs which is easier on your motor. Dual upgrades and the single kit are both great options. As they said its a big decision make the right one. A HUGE factor is price. If you want to go single expect to spend 12-15 grand when all is said and done if you don't already have the upgrades discussed that will be needed, plus clutch, install, etc. With twins you can expect to spend about half that or less. So yes its a big decision, and the truth of the matter is power is addictive. If you are the type of person who always wants more. Put your money towards a single kit and don't look back. If you are the type of person who is happy with 450-500 HP Twin upgrades are prob a better cost effective option.

[SIKH335]

Originally Posted by Tonyturbo42

Its pretty misleading saying the upgraded turbochargers can support 500-520 on race gas and meth while claiming a single can support a hundred more on pump gas. Turbos move air, the more air you move the more fuel you can burn and power you can make. A big single will have more power potential thats no question. BUT you can run upgraded turbochargers on pump gas with or without meth and as long as you have addressed other areas, DP's, FMIC, Tune, etc. You can have great power gains. Obviously using meth will net you more power and lower IATs which is easier on your motor. Dual upgrades and the single kit are both great options. As they said its a big decision make the right one. A HUGE factor is price. If you want to go single expect to spend 12-15 grand when all is said and done if you don't already have the upgrades discussed that will be needed, plus clutch, install, etc. With twins you can expect to spend about half that or less. So yes its a big decision, and the truth of the matter is power is addictive. If you are the type of person who always wants more. Put your money towards a single kit and don't look back. If you are the type of person who is happy with 450-500 HP Twin upgrades are prob a better cost effective option.

Can you break out the 12-15k number you are quoting into each item. Thanks.

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by Tonyturbo42

Its pretty misleading saying the upgraded turbochargers can support 500-520 on race gas and meth while claiming a single can support a hundred more on pump gas. Turbos move air, the more air you move the more fuel you can burn and power you can make. A big single will have more power potential thats no question. BUT you can run upgraded turbochargers on pump gas with or without meth and as long as you have addressed other areas, DP's, FMIC, Tune, etc. You can have great power gains. Obviously using meth will net you more power and lower IATs which is easier on your motor. Dual upgrades and the single kit are both great options. As they said its a big decision make the right one. A HUGE factor is price. If you want to go single expect to spend 12-15 grand when all is said and done if you don't already have the upgrades discussed that will be needed, plus clutch, install, etc. With twins you can expect to spend about half that or less. So yes its a big decision, and the truth of the matter is power is addictive. If you are the type of person who always wants more. Put your money towards a single kit and don't look back. If you are the type of person who is happy with 450-500 HP Twin upgrades are prob a better cost effective option.

You are missing the point. A large turbo has better efficiency and is not octane limited with high compression ratio engines. Smaller turbos need alcohol to fight the detonation.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

You are missing the point. A large turbo has better efficiency and is not octane limited with high compression ratio engines. Smaller turbos need alcohol to fight the detonation.

Actually you are missing the point, a large turbo might be more efficient up top because of greater flow but the twins are going to give you a broader power range every time. Why do you think the factory installs twins? Cause its fun to spend extra money putting two of something where one will do? No drivability is the answer. And for you to say smaller turbos "Need alcohol" to fight detonation shows me you read more form posts than you actually know. I have been building turbos and turbo systems for more than 20 years, our business has been for close to 40. Properly sized twins and a good intercooler will keep IAT temps in check and a quality tune has more to do with detonation than your choice of twins or a single. To say smaller turbos "Need alcohol to fight the detonation" shows your really do not understand the concepts you are discussing. I am not saying you do not have some experience. But that statement is fundamentally flawed. I am not really sure why you even jumped in here. I simply stated both are great options and the single is a better choice for someone wanting max power and somehow you still wanted to put in your .02 cents about a subject you need to do some more research on. Not everyone on these forums is a kid trying to bolt upgrades onto the first car he has ever had with a turbo.

[SIKH335]

And your company is???????? What's your company name and web address?

Originally Posted by Tonyturbo42

Actually you are missing the point, a large turbo might be more efficient up top because of greater flow but the twins are going to give you a broader power range every time. Why do you think the factory installs twins? Cause its fun to spend extra money putting two of something where one will do? No drivability is the answer. And for you to say smaller turbos "Need alcohol" to fight detonation shows me you read more form posts than you actually know. I have been building turbos and turbo systems for more than 20 years, our business has been for close to 40. Properly sized twins and a good intercooler will keep IAT temps in check and a quality tune has more to do with detonation than your choice of twins or a single. To say smaller turbos "Need alcohol to fight the detonation" shows your really do not understand the concepts you are discussing. I am not saying you do not have some experience. But that statement is fundamentally flawed. I am not really sure why you even jumped in here. I simply stated both are great options and the single is a better choice for someone wanting max power and somehow you still wanted to put in your .02 cents about a subject you need to do some more research on. Not everyone on these forums is a kid trying to bolt upgrades onto the first car he has ever had with a turbo.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by SIKH335

And your company is???????? What's your company name and web address?

www.vargasturbo.com pay close attention the industrial site. This has become our main business over the past 10 years? Why because a single turbo costs more than your entire car and they are run 24 hours a day for months on end, they might have to be built with precision. Oh did I also mention. We are FAA certified to build turbochargers for Aircraft? Yeah because the US government will just let anyone build a turbo and slap it on an aircraft. My father started our business building high performance turbo systems when the only thing available was a rajay turbocharger which you prob never heard of. I took over and made the move to industrial because I can make a lot more money and not have to deal with know it alls at the shop all day. I have decided to come back to our roots and start offering some performance upgrades for the N54 BMW's in the form of different turbochargers. Why, because it is fun not as a money making venture. We are in the testing phase now. I don't mean to come off like an ass. But so many people know so much about everything, when really they just read a lot on the internet. If you are not one of them. Then my apologies

[SIKH335]

Originally Posted by Tonyturbo42

www.vargasturbo.com pay close attention the industrial site. This has become our main business over the past 10 years? Why because a single turbo costs more than your entire car and they are run 24 hours a day for months on end, they might have to be built with precision. Oh did I also mention. We are FAA certified to build turbochargers for Aircraft? Yeah because the US government will just let anyone build a turbo and slap it on an aircraft. My father started our business building high performance turbo systems when the only thing available was a rajay turbocharger which you prob never heard of. I took over and made the move to industrial because I can make a lot more money and not have to deal with know it alls at the shop all day. I have decided to come back to our roots and start offering some performance upgrades for the N54 BMW's in the form of different turbochargers. Why, because it is fun not as a money making venture. We are in the testing phase now. I don't mean to come off like an ass. But so many people know so much about everything, when really they just read a lot on the internet. If you are not one of them. Then my apologies

That's very interesting! So you are gathering opinions from N54 owners on what turbo set up is currently considered the best in order to create your own twin turbo option. Good luck I would be interested to see what you come up with, since the only two designs currently are a Hybrid twin or the Single. I will say this the single I am running today is very drivable, not to say there is no lag what so ever but if I'm in DS which I mainly drive in the spool up is incredibly fast on the 62mm option. Now DS keeps me above 2500rpm, as opposed to Drive which will shift to 6th at a 45-50mph cruze dropping rpm to around 2000rpm where lag is present.