DIY Powered seat retrofit (WIP)

dasammy · 02-02-2011, 12:04 PM

function test

switch on sound! Lumbar and side bolsters are just hearable

everything works fine!

First try: connected Pin8 to ground and Pin4 to 12V+
Result: just the positioning was working

Second try: added ground to Pin13 and 12V+ to Pin7
Result: lumbar and side bolsters also working

Power Supply: rebuilt PC power supply

woodpecka · 02-02-2011, 04:58 PM

heh nice test mate!

FYI, yes the side bolster and lumbar are not managed by memory. Only the positions.

I can't see your pictures, the link are broken.

[edit]
My driver seat has pin # 2-3-4-8-9-13+... not pin #7

Does your pin #7 is large like this?

dasammy · 02-03-2011, 03:04 AM

Thx ... maybe I'll make a better video today.

I'll fix the links after work.
EDIT: fixed them ...

No, I also wondered why Pin7 isnt that large like Pin9 ... then I looked into the WDS and saw, that the Fuse for Pin7 (F37) is just 10A ... the Fuse for Pin9 (F33) is 30A ... don't know why they changed it ... but maybe the Fuse was designed a bit to big in the years before 03.2007. So they better changed it ... but who knows ...?

What about the passenger side? Do you also have Pin6?

Greetings!

woodpecka · 02-03-2011, 10:42 PM

If your pin7 is supposed to be on a Fuse 10A, it mean that it doesn't use a lot of power. So, it's more safe to use it on the module power wire.

There are my picture. As you can see, I have the pump power on the pin #9 as defined by the diagram:

x275

x279

woodpecka · 02-03-2011, 10:51 PM

Concerning the passenger pin #6, would it be possible that it is used to deactivate the airbag when a child sit on it? (Passenger airbag deactivation light)

dasammy · 02-04-2011, 02:39 AM

Hi!

Thx for sharing your pics!
Hmm ... interesting pin configuration. It seems like the heated seat at the drivers side is powered by the seat module and the heated seat at the passenger side is powered by the junction box.

Your X275 has the 2 bus pins (2+3) and your X279 only has the PWM pin (1 and pin5) ... I didnt thought that such a setting is possible.

About pin6 ... I'm relieved that you also have this pin. First I thought thats a function for E92/E93 ... maybe the easy entry or something ...
Your assumption that it could be the airbag deactivation light sounds quite interesting ... can we prove it somehow?

------

To pin7:

I 100% agree with you ... that was my assumption, too.
So connecting it to the power supply of the seat module would be even safer because of the low power consumption

Greetings!

dasammy · 02-04-2011, 07:15 AM

In my eyes it isn't even necessary to disassamble the glove box to connect pin2 and pin3 to the junction box. If you have a look at X15003 / X15004 you can see the bus-structure of the K_BUS. You could connect the cables anywhere you like inside of this network

EDIT: I showed the diagrams of X15003 / 15004 to a process measuring and control technology specialist at our company and he is the same opinion. So it would also be possible to connect the cables to the iDrive Controller

woodpecka · 02-04-2011, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasammy

Hi!

Thx for sharing your pics!
Hmm ... interesting pin configuration. It seems like the heated seat at the drivers side is powered by the seat module and the heated seat at the passenger side is powered by the junction box.

Your X275 has the 2 bus pins (2+3) and your X279 only has the PWM pin (1 and pin5) ... I didnt thought that such a setting is possible.

It's in line with the wiring diagrams! There is a small module on the passenger side but it doesn't use the K_CAN.

woodpecka · 02-04-2011, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasammy

In my eyes it isn't even necessary to disassamble the glove box to connect pin2 and pin3 to the junction box. If you have a look at X15003 / X15004 you can see the bus-structure of the K_BUS. You could connect the cables anywhere you like inside of this network

EDIT: I showed the diagrams of X15003 / 15004 to a process measuring and control technology specialist at our company and he is the same opinion. So it would also be possible to connect the cables to the iDrive Controller

I don't have the I Drive. Where do you think is the other easy access to the K_CAN wires?

dasammy · 02-04-2011, 11:54 AM

Yes, I saw it ... the module is pretty small on the passenger side.
Mine is just as big as the one on the drivers side.

Hmm ... thats a good question ... maybe pin9 and pin11 from the radio connector?

woodpecka · 02-04-2011, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasammy

Yes, I saw it ... the module is pretty small on the passenger side.
Mine is just as big as the one on the drivers side.

Hmm ... thats a good question ... maybe pin9 and pin11 from the radio connector?

Which year are your seats?

I'm surprised that this passenger seat configuration exist. Are they from an e9X?

dasammy · 02-04-2011, 03:59 PM

They are from 03/2007

Yes, they are from an E92 335i

dasammy · 02-04-2011, 04:16 PM

It's just like I said ... your heating at the passenger side is powered by the junction box and the drivers side is powered by the seat module.

My seats heating are both powered by the seat modules under each seat ... you can see it at the PDF I attached

woodpecka · 02-04-2011, 04:36 PM

Do you have the memory on the passenger seat? This option is not available in the USA/Canada.

dasammy · 02-04-2011, 04:43 PM

No

I think this option isn't available anywhere ^^

Its at least a simple thing:

How should the car "know" when you want your seats to be heated on the passenger side?
There is at least no connection between the heating and the switch in the middle. So there are 2 options how the heating "communicates" with the car:

Option 1) Pin1 (the pulse width modulation) and Pin5
Thats when the junction box manages the heating

... Pin1 is linked to the junction box ... the junction box is linked to the air condition and the air condition is linked to the switch in the middle
The junction box gets a signal from Pin1 ... so it manages the heating

Option 2) Pin2 and Pin3 ... the K_CAN
Thats when the seat module manages the heating

... Pin2 and Pin3 are linked to the junction box ... bla bla

The junction box gets no signal from Pin1 ... so it doesnt manage the heating

K_CAN manages the heating as well as the memory function (drivers side of course)

woodpecka · 02-05-2011, 12:12 AM

Yes, if the seat has the K_CAN module it use the K_CAN network.

If it doesn't had it, it use the SHFA_PWM pulse signal. The heating module is working in parallel than the position motors. So, this last option give me the feeling that the seat can use the motors at the same time than the heating. (Adding the pump on the same power wire should not be an issue than..)

woodpecka · 02-05-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasammy

Yes, I saw it ... the module is pretty small on the passenger side.
Mine is just as big as the one on the drivers side.

Hmm ... thats a good question ... maybe pin9 and pin11 from the radio connector?

Yes, based on the diagram I agree that the radio connector looks the easiest way. I will do a search about how I can reach the radio from the driver seat.

Have you installed your seats?

dasammy · 02-05-2011, 04:24 PM

Hi!

Today I bridged the pins (8 to 13 and 4 to 7) I didn't solder them. I used these mini connectors. Thats the easiest way and BMW often uses such connectors as I saw in different EBAs so it couldnt be that wrong.
I secured them with a cable tie and fabric tape ...

I will connect the K_CAN to the iDrive Controller.

I install the seats tomorrow ... keep your fingers crossed

When will you install your seats?

Greetings

fdriller9 · 02-05-2011, 09:19 PM

You want powered seats? I would trade my power seats for manual seats...I have tan interior.

woodpecka · 02-06-2011, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasammy

Hi!

Today I bridged the pins (8 to 13 and 4 to 7) I didn't solder them. I used these mini connectors. Thats the easiest way and BMW often uses such connectors as I saw in different EBAs so it couldnt be that wrong.
I secured them with a cable tie and fabric tape ...

I will connect the K_CAN to the iDrive Controller.

I install the seats tomorrow ... keep your fingers crossed

When will you install your seats?

Greetings

Does these mini connectors works well? Have you bridge the wire on the car or seats side? I plan to do it on the car side.
What are the connectors part #?

Have you finish to install your seats?

I will maybe do it next week.

dasammy · 02-06-2011, 04:38 PM

SUCCESS!!

Yes, these mini-connectors work well. I checked them with a multimeter after connecting the cables. Its a solid connection.

In short:

I disassembled the seats and looked at the connector at the car side. There were 2 things I recognized:

1.) The Power supply of the seat heating module was on Pin9 .. so I had to pin it out and pinned it to pin4 (car side)

2.) The yellow/white cable (pin6) also was at the old passenger seat, but it had no connection to any pin of the connector at the car side
So its completely useless

I tooked the side-airbags and seat belt fastener from my old seats. Airbags and seat belt fastener fit the normal seats as well as the sport seats.
BUT ITS JUST FOR E92/E93 ... FOR E90/E91 AIRBAGS OF THE NORMAL SEATS AND SPORT SEATS ARE DIFFERENT!!

I connected the K_CAN wires to the iDrive by soldering.

The seat positioning wont work if K_CAN is not connected! Lumbar and side bolsters are working, but the positioning wont!
Just after connecting the K_CAN it worked ...

The strange thing about that is: in the tests with my PC power supply it worked like a charm ...

Seat heating is also working ... without coding
Memory buttons are working

Greetings!

EDIT: bridged the wires on the seat side.
Dont know the part # of the connectors ... in Germany you can buy them at any hardware store

woodpecka · 02-06-2011, 04:51 PM

Great news!

Few questions:
So you didn't need to code your car to get the memory function!?

Why did you kept your old airbag?

For the K_CAN issue, maybe the car is not sending any power if the module is not responding. (By the K_CAN if you have a memory module) Great to know.

How have you wired the driver seat to the IDrive controller? (wiring path)

02-02-2011, 12:04 PM	#23
dasammy Enlisted Member 2 Rep 42 Posts Drives: E92 320D Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	function test switch on sound! Lumbar and side bolsters are just hearable everything works fine! First try: connected Pin8 to ground and Pin4 to 12V+ Result: just the positioning was working Second try: added ground to Pin13 and 12V+ to Pin7 Result: lumbar and side bolsters also working Power Supply: rebuilt PC power supply Last edited by dasammy; 02-02-2011 at 02:15 PM..
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02-02-2011, 04:58 PM	#24
woodpecka Major 73 Rep 1,026 Posts Drives: E91 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Montreal iTrader: (2)	heh nice test mate! FYI, yes the side bolster and lumbar are not managed by memory. Only the positions. I can't see your pictures, the link are broken. [edit] My driver seat has pin # 2-3-4-8-9-13+... not pin #7 Does your pin #7 is large like this? Last edited by woodpecka; 02-02-2011 at 07:00 PM..
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02-03-2011, 03:04 AM	#25
dasammy Enlisted Member 2 Rep 42 Posts Drives: E92 320D Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	Thx ... maybe I'll make a better video today. I'll fix the links after work. EDIT: fixed them ... No, I also wondered why Pin7 isnt that large like Pin9 ... then I looked into the WDS and saw, that the Fuse for Pin7 (F37) is just 10A ... the Fuse for Pin9 (F33) is 30A ... don't know why they changed it ... but maybe the Fuse was designed a bit to big in the years before 03.2007. So they better changed it ... but who knows ...? What about the passenger side? Do you also have Pin6? Greetings! Last edited by dasammy; 02-03-2011 at 11:07 AM..
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02-03-2011, 10:42 PM	#26
woodpecka Major 73 Rep 1,026 Posts Drives: E91 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Montreal iTrader: (2)	If your pin7 is supposed to be on a Fuse 10A, it mean that it doesn't use a lot of power. So, it's more safe to use it on the module power wire. There are my picture. As you can see, I have the pump power on the pin #9 as defined by the diagram: x275 x279 Last edited by woodpecka; 02-05-2011 at 12:21 AM..
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02-03-2011, 10:51 PM	#27
woodpecka Major 73 Rep 1,026 Posts Drives: E91 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Montreal iTrader: (2)	Concerning the passenger pin #6, would it be possible that it is used to deactivate the airbag when a child sit on it? (Passenger airbag deactivation light)
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02-04-2011, 02:39 AM	#28
dasammy Enlisted Member 2 Rep 42 Posts Drives: E92 320D Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	Hi! Thx for sharing your pics! Hmm ... interesting pin configuration. It seems like the heated seat at the drivers side is powered by the seat module and the heated seat at the passenger side is powered by the junction box. Your X275 has the 2 bus pins (2+3) and your X279 only has the PWM pin (1 and pin5) ... I didnt thought that such a setting is possible. About pin6 ... I'm relieved that you also have this pin. First I thought thats a function for E92/E93 ... maybe the easy entry or something ... Your assumption that it could be the airbag deactivation light sounds quite interesting ... can we prove it somehow? ------ To pin7: I 100% agree with you ... that was my assumption, too. So connecting it to the power supply of the seat module would be even safer because of the low power consumption Greetings! Last edited by dasammy; 02-04-2011 at 02:44 AM..
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02-04-2011, 07:15 AM	#29
dasammy Enlisted Member 2 Rep 42 Posts Drives: E92 320D Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	In my eyes it isn't even necessary to disassamble the glove box to connect pin2 and pin3 to the junction box. If you have a look at X15003 / X15004 you can see the bus-structure of the K_BUS. You could connect the cables anywhere you like inside of this network EDIT: I showed the diagrams of X15003 / 15004 to a process measuring and control technology specialist at our company and he is the same opinion. So it would also be possible to connect the cables to the iDrive Controller Last edited by dasammy; 02-04-2011 at 07:40 AM..
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02-04-2011, 11:54 AM	#32
dasammy Enlisted Member 2 Rep 42 Posts Drives: E92 320D Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	Yes, I saw it ... the module is pretty small on the passenger side. Mine is just as big as the one on the drivers side. Hmm ... thats a good question ... maybe pin9 and pin11 from the radio connector?
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02-04-2011, 03:59 PM	#34
dasammy Enlisted Member 2 Rep 42 Posts Drives: E92 320D Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	They are from 03/2007 Yes, they are from an E92 335i
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02-04-2011, 04:36 PM	#36
woodpecka Major 73 Rep 1,026 Posts Drives: E91 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Montreal iTrader: (2)	Do you have the memory on the passenger seat? This option is not available in the USA/Canada.
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02-04-2011, 04:43 PM	#37
dasammy Enlisted Member 2 Rep 42 Posts Drives: E92 320D Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	No I think this option isn't available anywhere ^^ Its at least a simple thing: How should the car "know" when you want your seats to be heated on the passenger side? There is at least no connection between the heating and the switch in the middle. So there are 2 options how the heating "communicates" with the car: Option 1) Pin1 (the pulse width modulation) and Pin5 Thats when the junction box manages the heating ... Pin1 is linked to the junction box ... the junction box is linked to the air condition and the air condition is linked to the switch in the middle The junction box gets a signal from Pin1 ... so it manages the heating Option 2) Pin2 and Pin3 ... the K_CAN Thats when the seat module manages the heating ... Pin2 and Pin3 are linked to the junction box ... bla bla The junction box gets no signal from Pin1 ... so it doesnt manage the heating K_CAN manages the heating as well as the memory function (drivers side of course) Last edited by dasammy; 02-04-2011 at 05:14 PM..
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02-05-2011, 12:12 AM	#38
woodpecka Major 73 Rep 1,026 Posts Drives: E91 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Montreal iTrader: (2)	Yes, if the seat has the K_CAN module it use the K_CAN network. If it doesn't had it, it use the SHFA_PWM pulse signal. The heating module is working in parallel than the position motors. So, this last option give me the feeling that the seat can use the motors at the same time than the heating. (Adding the pump on the same power wire should not be an issue than..)
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02-05-2011, 04:24 PM	#40
dasammy Enlisted Member 2 Rep 42 Posts Drives: E92 320D Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	Hi! Today I bridged the pins (8 to 13 and 4 to 7) I didn't solder them. I used these mini connectors. Thats the easiest way and BMW often uses such connectors as I saw in different EBAs so it couldnt be that wrong. I secured them with a cable tie and fabric tape ... I will connect the K_CAN to the iDrive Controller. I install the seats tomorrow ... keep your fingers crossed When will you install your seats? Greetings
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02-05-2011, 09:19 PM	#41
fdriller9 Banned 259 Rep 7,089 Posts Drives: '06 AW 330xi Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North Jersey/Philly/NYC iTrader: (4) Garage List 2006 330xi [6.44]	You want powered seats? I would trade my power seats for manual seats...I have tan interior.
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02-06-2011, 04:38 PM	#43
dasammy Enlisted Member 2 Rep 42 Posts Drives: E92 320D Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	SUCCESS!! Yes, these mini-connectors work well. I checked them with a multimeter after connecting the cables. Its a solid connection. In short: I disassembled the seats and looked at the connector at the car side. There were 2 things I recognized: 1.) The Power supply of the seat heating module was on Pin9 .. so I had to pin it out and pinned it to pin4 (car side) 2.) The yellow/white cable (pin6) also was at the old passenger seat, but it had no connection to any pin of the connector at the car side So its completely useless I tooked the side-airbags and seat belt fastener from my old seats. Airbags and seat belt fastener fit the normal seats as well as the sport seats. BUT ITS JUST FOR E92/E93 ... FOR E90/E91 AIRBAGS OF THE NORMAL SEATS AND SPORT SEATS ARE DIFFERENT!! I connected the K_CAN wires to the iDrive by soldering. The seat positioning wont work if K_CAN is not connected! Lumbar and side bolsters are working, but the positioning wont! Just after connecting the K_CAN it worked ... The strange thing about that is: in the tests with my PC power supply it worked like a charm ... Seat heating is also working ... without coding Memory buttons are working Greetings! EDIT: bridged the wires on the seat side. Dont know the part # of the connectors ... in Germany you can buy them at any hardware store __________________ Last edited by dasammy; 02-20-2011 at 07:41 AM..
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02-06-2011, 04:51 PM	#44
woodpecka Major 73 Rep 1,026 Posts Drives: E91 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Montreal iTrader: (2)	Great news! Few questions: So you didn't need to code your car to get the memory function!? Why did you kept your old airbag? For the K_CAN issue, maybe the car is not sending any power if the module is not responding. (By the K_CAN if you have a memory module) Great to know. How have you wired the driver seat to the IDrive controller? (wiring path)
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