[E93MAC]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

This all seems really blown out of proportion to me for a $150 patch harness. As BMS said this paddle retrofit kits are delicate and stuff sometimes breaks. Be it plastic connectors, clips, or in this extreme case an electrical contact. The OEM contact was soldered on so I don't see why they can't just solder a wire to it. Although $100 is pretty cheap for an OEM so replacing it is probably not a bad idea.

Since this guy has been posting BMS' emails I just asked them for the email chain to read through it myself. Also the email chain from Jason @ BMS. Hopefully he posts everything as it's clear from the emails they've been attempting to help him all along and OP is just angling for someone to pay for his damages. He is not at all concerned Sonic gave him his car back with a faulty install that may have resulted in a serious injury. Jason @ BMS literally begs him to send back the OEM harness so they can inspect it and he pretends like BMS didn't even ask for it back. He just wants the $250.

If he was more polite I'm sure BMS would meet him in the middle at $125 just to make him happy. OP should I try to discuss that option with BMS, or am I just wasting my time here trying to mediate this?

Mike

I posted exactly all the emails as they were! This pisses me off! There is nothing I am hiding yet you and BMS are talking behind my back seeing what you can post to discredit me.

Very sad, very sad indeed. You can go ahead and say what you want. I know the truth!

If I take a step back from all this I can see Jason @ BMS at least trying to help me out in the beginning, but everything going south as soon as Terry was involved.

You, Mike@N54Tuning are biased because you sell their products and of course they will protect their own company! This is all one sided on your part and BMS.

Also I already said don't pay for the damage. Also I didn't accept the $50 and still have not. If it was all about money I would have taken the $50.
This is about principal and the customer service, they have failed, to show me.
Thanks for trying to discredit me, BUT I do know the truth and all the emails besides the ones from Jason are here and I can add those here, if you like, if you want to carry this thread on. I can certainly oblige.

Two big companies get together to pick on the little guy, and a customer, strike that previous customer. You must feel very proud of yourself and what did this have to do with you Mike@N54Tuning? Did you really need to step in? Sure you are entitled to your opinion, but you contact BMS and start all this? Doesn't N54Tuning have customers they need to assist? Or is this also how your company does business? Who is looking after the customers while you are on the forums talking about an issue that you aren't even personally involved with?

In the end I am the one that gets screwed.

Also did you know that Sonic disconnected the module? No didn't did you? They tested it, it malfunctioned so they disconnected it until the new one came in. Don't talk about a subject that neither you Mike@N54Tuning or BMS know about, because that discussion happened between me and the shop and has nothing to do with you. But you just assumed they left it that way didn't you? Very Sad and you're reaching there...

Go and find out how real customer service works. Or at least attempt to. At this point N54Tuning and BMS Burger Motorsports are trying to be nothing but a bunch of thugs, working together, dissecting the truth in my emails, twisting it and using it to your own advantage. All my emails from Terry are there, in their entirety, plain and for all to see. The last two emails where he insults me in one of them aren't here but if you like I can post those two, but he is just repeating the same thing over and over.

Go ahead bullies, go ahead and continue, add more drama to your lives. Keep this thread going if you like. I have accepted the loss, vented and let other know here on the forum to protect them from making the same mistake, and tried to move on, but you keep coming back and throwing fuel on the fire. Keep coming and I will continue to reply. But I refuse to take the fact that you think I hid anything. I posted everything as the way it was in email.

[E93MAC]

Originally Posted by deadmn1337

This seems more like the situation that what the op posted. Thanks for setting everything straight.

OP you need to either post everything or just drop it cause you have blown this out of portion at this point and no one is going to side with you.

I posted everything in its entirety between Terry and myself, but Mike@N54Tuning (who has nothing to do with the case, mind you) posts one thing without a shred of evidence and you believe him??? At least I posted the emails!

I'm not looking for anyone to side with me. I posted my experience. Take it for what it is or don't! I'm doing it for others, so that they don't make the same mistake and choose BMS and have to go through the same issues I did. But that will be entirely up to them

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by E93MAC

I posted exactly all the emails as they were! This pisses me off! There is nothing I am hiding yet you and BMS are talking behind my back seeing what you can post to discredit me.

Very sad, very sad indeed. You can go ahead and say what you want. I know the truth!

If I take a step back from all this I can see Jason @ BMS at least trying to help me out in the beginning, but everything going south as soon as Terry was involved.

You, Mike@N54Tuning are biased because you sell their products and of course they will protect their own company! This is all one sided on your part and BMS.

Also I already said don't pay for the damage. Also I didn't accept the $50 and still have not. If it was all about money I would have taken the $50.
This is about principal and the customer service, they have failed, to show me.
Thanks for trying to discredit me, BUT I do know the truth and all the emails besides the ones from Jason are here and I can add those here, if you like, if you want to carry this thread on. I can certainly oblige.

Two big companies get together to pick on the little guy, and a customer, strike that previous customer. You must feel very proud of yourself and what did this have to do with you Mike@N54Tuning? Did you really need to step in? Sure you are entitled to your opinion, but you contact BMS and start all this? Doesn't N54Tuning have customers they need to assist? Or is this also how your company does business? Who is looking after the customers while you are on the forums talking about an issue that you aren't even personally involved with?

In the end I am the one that gets screwed.

Also did you know that Sonic disconnected the module? No didn't did you? They tested it, it malfunctioned so they disconnected it until the new one came in. Don't talk about a subject that neither you Mike@N54Tuning or BMS know about, because that discussion happened between me and the shop and has nothing to do with you. But you just assumed they left it that way didn't you? Very Sad and you're reaching there...

Go and find out how real customer service works. Or at least attempt to. At this point N54Tuning and BMS Burger Motorsports are trying to be nothing but a bunch of thugs, working together, dissecting the truth in my emails, twisting it and using it to your own advantage. All my emails from Terry are there, in their entirety, plain and for all to see. The last two emails where he insults me in one of them aren't here but if you like I can post those two, but he is just repeating the same thing over and over.

Go ahead bullies, go ahead and continue, add more drama to your lives. Keep this thread going if you like. I have accepted the loss, vented and let other know here on the forum to protect them from making the same mistake, and tried to move on, but you keep coming back and throwing fuel on the fire. Keep coming and I will continue to reply. But I refuse to take the fact that you think I hid anything. I posted everything as the way it was in email.

I stepped in just to get to the bottom of it as it's rare there is a negative complaint about BMS. I'd do the same for any of the brands I represent and have on several occasions. Now that I looked in to your situation I've formed the
opinion that BMS was very responsive, reasonable, and accommodating toward your situation.

I thought I'd go pull some strings with the guys there to see if I can get you a bigger credit but clearly I can see I'm wasting my time. I'm sorry I got involved with you in the first place.

Mike

[E93MAC]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I stepped in just to get to the bottom of it as it's rare there is a negative complaint about BMS. I'd do the same for any of the brands I represent and have on several occasions. Now that I looked in to your situation I've formed the
opinion that BMS was very responsive, reasonable, and accommodating toward your situation.

I thought I'd go pull some strings with the guys there to see if I can get you a bigger credit but clearly I can see I'm wasting my time. I'm sorry I got involved with you in the first place.

Mike

You are definitely entitled to your opinion, I am not doubting that one bit.

Also, Nice try Mike, I'm not buying it. If you really cared that much about "Me" you would have PM'd me on the side and said "You know I'm really concerned about all I am reading here and I would just like to get a little bit more information from you and I will then go talk to BMS on your behalf."

Yeah, I'm not buying it. You are just trying to save face here. But I do agree with you on one thing. I am sorry that you Mike@N54Tuning became involved as well. When this issue didn't have anything to do with you or N54Tuning. Nor were you looking out for my best interests, like you claim you were. No evidence of that at all, where at least I provided evidence and photos and you provided nothing, other than to further aggravate an already tense situation.

[Maniac0908]

Are you in md? Sonic tuning in maryland?
I didnt really read all of it and im not taking sides but it does look like a install issue. The shop probably messed it up and blamed bms so they wouldnt have to pay for it. I mean i would have do e the same thing if i were the shop. i have dealt with both companies and they always look out for customers. And im one of those customers that asks 1000 questions. They were always nice to me. If you look at all other companies they usually dont take things back that have been messed with. If they did everyone who buys things and messes them up during install would be returning them and those companies would lose money. Cant return a condom because you put in on backwards.

[e92oholic]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Just read the thread. In your first sentense you state what really went wrong here:

"When Sonic Motorsport installed the harness, I was told that the female plug from BurgerTuning's harness was hard to plug into my clockspring and it should just slide in and lock and that the paddleshift was not functioning properly."

Your mechanic forced a connector in to something that was not lined up properly and broke it. Plain and simple. Anyone who has done this complicated retrofit before would know that
delicate electronic connectors should fit smoothly together. If it is not sliding in smoothly something is wrong and ABORT the install to find out what the issue is. Instead they forced it together and ultimately broke something. And now you want BMS to pay for their damage. I don't see how that is reasonable.

It sounds like BMS sent you a new replacement harness just in case the original was defective, which does not appear to be the case, they offered you $50 as a courtesy, appear to be engaged with you in helping resolve the issue, etc. Your mechanic should kick in the labor for free since he broke it in the first place. So you are out $100 for his damage and BMS is paying for half of that as a customer courtesy. Again this seems reasonable to me, no?

Mike

Sounds about right to me, never force a wire harness together.

[E93MAC]

Originally Posted by Maniac0908

Are you in md? Sonic tuning in maryland?
I didnt really read all of it and im not taking sides but it does look like a install issue. The shop probably messed it up and blamed bms so they wouldnt have to pay for it. I mean i would have do e the same thing if i were the shop. i have dealt with both companies and they always look out for customers. And im one of those customers that asks 1000 questions. They were always nice to me. If you look at all other companies they usually dont take things back that have been messed with. If they did everyone who buys things and messes them up during install would be returning them and those companies would lose money. Cant return a condom because you put in on backwards.

No I am in California, shop is local here. Not familiar with anything in Maryland. Haha. Your condom reference made me laugh haha.

Look, like you say you have had good customer service with BMS (I'm glad you have, i however did not) I have had great customer service with Sonic. Go take a look at my car in the pictures section. I posted up a big thread on it "E93 New and Improved". I thanked Sonic as well for all the work they did as well as other shops and vendors, and as you can see from that picture thread, I have done ALOT of work to my car. This isn't my first rodeo. I have also had issues with some other companies not many but one or two, most have treated me very well. BUT where this differs is none of those companies were blindly biased and thought they were infallible. They all did right by me in the end. Including Vorsteiner. Sure they may have pissed me off but in the end they fixed the issue and I didn't have to post my experience on the forums. If you read one of my emails to Terry I gave them a chance to fix the issue, they just didn't agree that they could ever be at fault. Not until further in where they say "maybe it's the harness" but in the last email they say we don't think it's the harness.

But no one, not BMS, Mike@N54Tuning or some of the people here can make a definitive claim, because they aren't here looking at it. I am and the shop is. But all these people, are entitled to their opinion, they cannot however assume who was at fault which all these people seem to be doing.

My problem with BMS is they just became a bunch of thugs. Picking on the little guy. I'm just a customer that wants a part installed. I even made sure the shop wasn't at fault before I emailed Terry and Jason. They proved they weren't at fault. Me? I care about my issue being resolved without the tactics that were involved here. I agree this has escalated quickly. Should be a meme for that here

But not by me. I posted what happened. My experience. Another vendor chose to jump on board and make it worse. Then BMS shared out emails with a third party vendor who has what to do with this situation you may ask? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Yet he chose to come in and discuss a situation that he knows nothing about.

Now that's not how you conduct business. On top of that BMS insulted me. Did I insult them? No. But they chose to insult a now "former customer" why? So they can have the last word?

I don't understand this. Maybe I'm old fashioned but there is no honor in how I have been treated. None whatsoever.

There are other things that I can add. Add additional emails but why? What's the point? I'm not adding gasoline to the fire they started.

But if provoked, if I am told I am not presenting the truth. I will take everything I have. Provide screenshots and let the community decide.

I am done with BMS. I am done with Mike@N54Tuning.

I feel like I'm having to repeat myself over and over again here.

Read this thread in it's entirety and you will see. Or maybe you won't either way. It's over.

I came out at a loss on this purchase. So be it. I've accepted it.
Will never do business with these two businesses again.

I'm sure Mike@N54Tuning nor BMS will not make matters worse anymore by adding fuel to this burning thread.

I received an email from Terry tonight again, he didn't think I understood where they stood and They don't understand or respect me as a customer. We agree to disagree. We ended it then and there. It's done.

[jasonn]

E93MAC, you can find all the replacement parts you need in my thread:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=600729

the thing with businesses is that if you admit fault, you concede liability.

This harness cost $60 or so to make in OEM parts. I know; I built a few. Then you have to factor in labor in building the harness. So they probably make around $60 per harness.

That is not worth conceding liability on a $50k car, honor or "do the right thing" be damned.

The margins are too low in this e9x market to allow for good customer service, unless it is something harmless like cosmetics (lips, trunks, etc).

If I ever became a Vendor, I would have disclaimers all over the place multiple "buyer beware" and "proceed at your own risk" type language.

[E93MAC]

Thanks Jason, yes I actually already saw your thread after the fact.

I completely understand the liability side. But I just really wanted them to keep an open mind about the whole thing. And not just repeat an old Shaggy song:

"Wasn't me"

They weren't open at all to the concept that they could ever make a mistake in their product. The second harness worked fine. But the first one did not.

BUT they felt the need to share this with a vendor that didn't have anything to do with the issue. The fact that either Mike went to them or they went to Mike is not my concern. The problem is between a customer and the business he purchased the product from, keep it that way. And certainly, certainly do not insult the customer by calling them closed minded or melodramatic. No matter how little margin you may make on said product.

You know what I mean?

[E93MAC]

Originally Posted by NOTM3

I just got the kit today and i am having issues as well , I have a car show in the AM and my car is all taken apart now, not to happy

Yeah. If you call them they say each kit is tested before they send it out. Either they are lying or maybe they have plugged it in the tester so many times the pin holes have just worn and gotten bigger. Remember these are hand made. A machine doesn't make these. They don't sell enough of them to warrant having a machine make them in mass quantities. So when you hand make something mistakes can happen. How else can they explain the first cable being bad and the second being perfect?

Either way, ask them for a replacement and you should ask for something for your trouble.

They offered me a full refund if I took down the post but I refused. I refuse to sell out and would rather have my experience help others from going through the same thing.

I hope it all works out for you. Hopefully they learned something from dealing with me on how to treat customers. Hopefully they won't insult you either while you go through their "process"

Good luck.

[HouseN54]

should of bought a MT problem solved.

[Killn12s]

All of my experiences with both Terry and BMS have been great. Sorry you feel as though Terry and his team have turned away and ignored your issues. As a business owner Terry would be taking on to much of a burden to fully support/replace his products after failed attempts of installation (especially if the install was performed by a third party). The installer should have checked to see why the connector was not connecting smoothly prior to forcing the connection. Sorry you feel cheated.

[E93MAC]

Originally Posted by HouseN54

should of bought a MT problem solved.

Hahaha.

[E93MAC]

Originally Posted by Killn12s

All of my experiences with both Terry and BMS have been great. Sorry you feel as though Terry and his team have turned away and ignored your issues. As a business owner Terry would be taking on to much of a burden to fully support/replace his products after failed attempts of installation (especially if the install was performed by a third party). The installer should have checked to see why the connector was not connecting smoothly prior to forcing the connection. Sorry you feel cheated.

First thing, we are talking about the harness and their support for the harness. This isn't a tune. Maybe you purchased a tune or another part which is the bread and butter of Burger and their customer service is better for those parts because they are their golden products.
I'm really glad you had great customer service. I really am. I however did not.
Every single install the shop has done has been flawless and they have been in pretty much every crevice of my car. From suspension to installing an electronic smart top module. As you can see I've done a lot to it.
You are definitely entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine. Burger says every part is checked. This is obviously not true. Let's just say for argument sake it was the shops fault (which I don't believe it was), wouldn't that make the connector bad on their harness? Think about it. But every part is checked how could it possibly be bad right? Wrong. Their harness pulled the pin out of my car!!! When inspecting the harness, pin one was not the same as the rest. On their harness! It was flawed. It wasn't checked, their checking procedure is flawed. Either way the second harness worked while the first did not and caused issues. Now you say, "well why are you bitching? You received a replacement so STFU already" well that is what a company is supposed to do! Everyone talks about companies saying "well at least you received a replacement. Most vendors don't even replace em" those people are giving shops the power to not take responsibility for faulty products!!! Just because other vendors are bad, people are saying "well everyone's bad but at least this one isn't AS bad as the rest" That doesn't help the issue! Don't even get me started on the time wasted. And time is money...

Now NOTM3 is also having issues with his harness...that's the post I was responding to.

BUT a business owner should never insult a customer. That's business 101 my friend. Calling a customer closed minded and melodramatic is never. I repeat never the answer. That's just poor business practice. Maybe just maybe because of all this they have learned. But not once have I received a note from Terry apologizing for insulting a customer. I just hope for NOTM3's sake he isn't insulted and his issue is resolved in a timely manner. And maybe because of this exposure it will be.

[NOTM3]

Just got a response i sent an email to both terry and jason

terry responded saying "For paddle shifter questions/assistance you'd email Jason@burgertuning.com."

i said "does he respond on the weekends bc i sent an email out last night, my car is taken apart and can’t be driven at the moment as I’m waiting for a response"

his response "Normally we're only open M-F. But, he does check the email sometimes
during weekends. So be sure to email him photos, etc, of whatever you
need."

[E93MAC]

Originally Posted by NOTM3

Just got a response i sent an email to both terry and jason

terry responded saying "For paddle shifter questions/assistance you'd email Jason@burgertuning.com."

i said "does he respond on the weekends bc i sent an email out last night, my car is taken apart and can’t be driven at the moment as I’m waiting for a response"

his response "Normally we're only open M-F. But, he does check the email sometimes
during weekends. So be sure to email him photos, etc, of whatever you
need."

I have Jason's number. I'll PM it to you. I'm not a complete asshole that I would post it in a public forum, but you seem to legitimately need it so I will PM it to you. I wouldn't share it in a public forum though. I know your mad right now but it would be a bad thing to do.
But man that sucks. Yeah I wouldn't expect them to be open on the weekend. It sucks that you have to wait :-/ but yes he got one thing right. Take photos of EVERYTHING. Just in case you need to dispute it later. Especially take pics of the pin out and connector, but get their permission to open up the harness first (in writing) otherwise they'll probably blame you for voiding the warranty. But you can't get photos of it UNLESS you open the harness connector :-/ catch 22 right? Yeah...

[NOTM3]

Spoke to Jason he was very helpful, I don't have the right part for my controls so it was my error

[E93MAC]

Originally Posted by NOTM3

Spoke to Jason he was very helpful, I don't have the right part for my controls so it was my error

That's good. It looks like they have learned something since dealing with me then. Awesome. Yeah, they clearly state in their instructions online which parts are necessary. It's always good to read all that and order the correct parts so that you don't have any downtime.

I think Jason is a good guy he was helpful in my case as well. Terry however was pretty rude.

Glad Jason worked it out for you.

[camberadam]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Just read the thread. In your first sentense you state what really went wrong here:

"When Sonic Motorsport installed the harness, I was told that the female plug from BurgerTuning's harness was hard to plug into my clockspring and it should just slide in and lock and that the paddleshift was not functioning properly."

Your mechanic forced a connector in to something that was not lined up properly and broke it. Plain and simple. Anyone who has done this complicated retrofit before would know that
delicate electronic connectors should fit smoothly together. If it is not sliding in smoothly something is wrong and ABORT the install to find out what the issue is. Instead they forced it together and ultimately broke something. And now you want BMS to pay for their damage. I don't see how that is reasonable.

It sounds like BMS sent you a new replacement harness just in case the original was defective, which does not appear to be the case, they offered you $50 as a courtesy, appear to be engaged with you in helping resolve the issue, etc. Your mechanic should kick in the labor for free since he broke it in the first place. So you are out $100 for his damage and BMS is paying for half of that as a customer courtesy. Again this seems reasonable to me, no?

Mike

couldn't have said it better.

[E93MAC]

Originally Posted by camberadam

couldn't have said it better.

I never accepted a dime from Burger. For their mistake. No payment taken from them at all.

Also I like how no one is addressing the fact that they insulted a customer. Oh sure there's no point in mentioning that at all is there? I guess everyone here that doesn't see this as an issue, is used to being treated like s***!

I've run a very successful computer consulting company. I've never insulted a customer to get my point across even if I didn't agree with them. There's this thing called diplomacy. Not sure if people have heard about it

And to all the Burger Fanboys out there why can't you just accept that I didn't have a great experience? Maybe you did. That's great for you. I did not. Let's just leave it at that.

[Knobi]

I have dealt and i have purchased SEVERAL products from BMS in many different occasions, each experience better than the previous one. Their staff is extremely helpful and very responsive to emails. The fact that Terry himself addresses most concerns and claims, tells you a lot about his customer service. That been said, i believe your "bad experience" started with your shop and not the vendor.
Also, you mad bro? If you are gonna get angry at other members for giving GOOD reviews to BMS then don't post in the 1st place. No one is attacking you or flaming you, they are also expressing an opinion and some are even trying to help you. Just my .02

#annualbump

[Rickygst]

I think Mike is correct, Maybe Sonic didn't do a good job with the install. If the harness was already defective they shouldn't have used it in the first place. This is an objective point of view, I have no interest either way.