Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?

tek818 · 06-06-2008, 04:00 PM

Just called and spoke with some girl that obviously knew nothing about this issue. She did however recommend reporting the issue to the dealer, and they address the issue with their engineers, who will in turn contact BMW NA/AG. She noted and submitted my complaint...

price9195 · 06-06-2008, 10:51 PM

I had my car (April 07 build) in for service 4 wks ago for brake light coming on indicating brake service due. Car had only 11,000 mi. and brakes were fine but had to be reprogrammed to get light to turn off.
First day, pulling away from mailbox and floor it. Like others have said, the turbo takes a full count to spool up until it hits about 32-3500 rpm. Noticed the car was popping through the exhaust in first gear like it did when I disconnected the exhaust flap. (But then reconnected because of highway drone).
Thought I was imagining things until I checked in here. First few days I stalled the car like 3 times because the torque at clutch slip seemed different. Over the last month I have learned to drive my "new car." You have to give more throttle on starts to prevent bogging. To overcome the lag you have to try to keep the revs above 3500 rpm or keep deep into the throttle to keep the turbo spinning.
It definitely has changed the car. Mentioned it to my SA when in for a tire replacement last week and he said yes I have 29.2 but denied knowing about the issues. He has a similar month build 335 so I asked him to let me know if he hears anything about a fix for this. I hope that in the next few months enough people complain enough to force a fix.
It is a noticeable difference. I feel like they have changed the car into something totally different than what I took delivery of 1 year ago.
I should call customer service but haven't yet.

tyler9595 · 06-07-2008, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezatnova

I absolutely don't disagree that peak power/tq feels fine, as before 29.2. I do disagree that the softer delivery can be negated with a heavier foot. Just take throttle modulation out of the picture and slam it to the floor on a pre 29.2 car and then on a 29.2 car and it's a different ballgame.

I agree 100% - there is A LOT LOT LOT more turbo lag. The car now drives like my old RX7....stomp, wait 2 sec, then the power comes. I notice a huge difference with 29.2. BMW has really screwed the performance

slubu · 06-07-2008, 12:44 PM

Please everyone call and complain. It will help.

FunRevn · 06-08-2008, 09:04 AM

I called and logged my total dislike for the 29.2 progman. Basically they said they havent heard anything negitive about it yet....

Lets keep the flow of calls coming.

midlife · 06-08-2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezatnova

I felt mine re-adapt for proper power once the boost has built, but, it's the time that it takes to go full-boil that is still annoying and hasn't improved. It's a solid 1+ second now from flooring it at, say, 3000 rpm, before I feel full boost built and I start to fly. Before 29.2, it was nearly isntantaneous.
I'm surprised a car could even potentially "adapt" out this lag, since it's caused by a physical change in the programming of the duty cycles of the wastegates. Having them open more of the time equates to longer boost build time.

sorry but i am joining this thread late: hope this is not a repeat...

i just tell my dealer that i DO NOT WANT ANY UPDATES BECAUSE OF ........

but why is bmw doing this ??
are our tubos really that delicate they they have to piss people off with 29.2 ??

my 2 cents

branabolic · 06-08-2008, 06:43 PM

ya when i test drove a 335 in march it had no turbo lag at all, felt like a na v8. got my car may 12 it has v81 and i definatly feel some lag. even more so than my brothers 01
s4 w/ 110k miles. there is lag in this vehicle when bmw prides themselves on it having so little. if you are going to make it lag on purpose, why not have just given us some bigger turbos that dont kill themselves above 5k rpm??? aholes.

Quisp · 06-09-2008, 12:28 AM

For those of you that got the update and it has lowered performance below the advertised levels and that advertised level was a major determining factor in your decision to buy. The 2007 yamahas were advertised to have an very high redline, it5 was a major part of the ad campaign. After the model was released and independently tested it turned out the redline was lower than advertised. Yamaha had to do a lot of damage control including buying back the motorcycles of people that had bought the bike with the advertised expectation. I realize it is not the exact situation, but if a car was bought and then the builder made it less of a car.....seems fishy. Does anyone know if maybe progman 29.2 does this downgrade to save BMW from having to replace more HPFPs and turbos?

mistermojorizin · 06-09-2008, 12:49 AM

I have a Feb 08 built 135i and I bought it on April 14. My car behaves exactly as described in this 2006 post on roadfly http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/bmw...8028595-1.html :

"Try stepping on the gas in 4th gear at 2000 rpms. The car will make a little "hiccup" and then go. If the car wasn't a turbo, people would be complaining that there is a problem with the throttle. If you're old like me and remember carburetors....the throttle response of carburetors is much like the turbo lag. It's nothing like the old Saab's, but nevertheless it's there. There is no way you can have turbos without some lag."

I don't know if I have 29.2, but i know the car has the abovementioned "hicup" and lag. But as the post demonstrates the 335's had it pre 29.2 anyway. So what's the deal?

Kyosho · 06-09-2008, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff@Eurobahn.us

If you have been re-flashed with 29.2 there is a bit of softer throttle control. This can be defeated with a slightly heavier foot. The power levels are the same and the torque is nearly identical. I know cause we have tested both.

Jeff
Eurobahn

ive always had a REALLY heavy foot.

ezatnova · 06-09-2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by price9195

I had my car (April 07 build) in for service 4 wks ago for brake light coming on indicating brake service due. Car had only 11,000 mi. and brakes were fine but had to be reprogrammed to get light to turn off.
First day, pulling away from mailbox and floor it. Like others have said, the turbo takes a full count to spool up until it hits about 32-3500 rpm. Noticed the car was popping through the exhaust in first gear like it did when I disconnected the exhaust flap. (But then reconnected because of highway drone).
Thought I was imagining things until I checked in here. First few days I stalled the car like 3 times because the torque at clutch slip seemed different. Over the last month I have learned to drive my "new car." You have to give more throttle on starts to prevent bogging. To overcome the lag you have to try to keep the revs above 3500 rpm or keep deep into the throttle to keep the turbo spinning.
It definitely has changed the car. Mentioned it to my SA when in for a tire replacement last week and he said yes I have 29.2 but denied knowing about the issues. He has a similar month build 335 so I asked him to let me know if he hears anything about a fix for this. I hope that in the next few months enough people complain enough to force a fix.
It is a noticeable difference. I feel like they have changed the car into something totally different than what I took delivery of 1 year ago.
I should call customer service but haven't yet.

Please call 'em up man. The # is RIGHT on the OP's first post, in bold. It's super easy and takes 5 minutes. This is the ONLY way we can fix our cars.

Unkie Sam wants YOU to call!

On a related note, how many reps could BMW NA have answering that line? Maybe 50? I have NO idea (are they open 24-7?), but it can't be THAT many. If enough of us call, at least one of those people will say "hmm, yeah, I have gotten another call about this" and maybe elevate it to a manager or something.

slubu · 06-09-2008, 09:40 AM

Do you guys specifically refer to "29.2" or do you remain generic as in "a software update was done and now there is lag"...

RedGT3 · 06-09-2008, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slubu

Do you guys specifically refer to "29.2" or do you remain generic as in "a software update was done and now there is lag"...

Progman 29.2

spyahoo · 06-09-2008, 10:09 AM

Count me in as having the lag also. I just got 29.2 after my NAV broke. From 0-3000 the car is just slow. Throttle response gone

scottp999 · 06-09-2008, 10:13 AM

Would it be better if you consolidated calls to one contact? What's the name and extension of people already contaced at customer support? Atleast this way, they can't keep saying they never heard of it before.

Also, if they say they are documenting it, they should be entering some kind of ticket number or tracking id that we can reference.

I have never taken my car back to the dealer. The last time the dealer saw my car was on delivery day and they had it in their possesion for only 4 hours after it literally got off the truck in May 2007.

I appreciate all the work this group is doing to raise the issue with BMW.

ezatnova · 06-09-2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slubu

Do you guys specifically refer to "29.2" or do you remain generic as in "a software update was done and now there is lag"...

I said it all - "My new software program update - progman 29.2"

ezatnova · 06-09-2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyahoo

Count me in as having the lag also. I just got 29.2 after my NAV broke. From 0-3000 the car is just slow. Throttle response gone

Dial 'em up!

slubu · 06-09-2008, 11:26 AM

I have another idea too that will help us, give me maybe until tomorrow to set it up.

nightops · 06-09-2008, 01:39 PM

Is there any way to know or test if you have 29.2 - I went in for an oil change and I don't know if they've upgraded it, but I'd like to know. I don't remember the car feeling any different though, sorry to hear these complaints, makes me not want to bring my car in...

ezatnova · 06-09-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightops

Is there any way to know or test if you have 29.2 - I went in for an oil change and I don't know if they've upgraded it, but I'd like to know. I don't remember the car feeling any different though, sorry to hear these complaints, makes me not want to bring my car in...

If you have i-drive, the screen should now be silver rather than brown, according to Jonathan. If you don't have i-drive (like me) then lag is the way you tell.

ezatnova · 06-09-2008, 02:18 PM

MODS - Could you please make this a STICKY? I have a feeling this issue will be a storm hitting the whole community as more and more cars go in for service and get Progman 29.2.

Thanks

Robertbog · 06-09-2008, 02:23 PM

Apparently BMW NA doesnt have contact with the engineering department. I spoke to some very nice lady who explained it, BMW NA will do warranty ect, to filter a complaint through BMW NA onto BMW AG is going to be a hard thing to do and to track.

The dealerships have a clear connection to BMW AG through the internet in which they can file complaints, it is a reasonable way for them to also see that it's the average joe doing this, not some forum.

06-06-2008, 04:00 PM	#23
tek818 Lieutenant Colonel 137 Rep 1,953 Posts Drives: 2020 X3M Competition Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (2) Garage List 2018 M3 ZCP [9.50]	Just called and spoke with some girl that obviously knew nothing about this issue. She did however recommend reporting the issue to the dealer, and they address the issue with their engineers, who will in turn contact BMW NA/AG. She noted and submitted my complaint... __________________ 2020 F97 X3M Competition (current) - 2018 F80 M3 Competition - 2015 F82 M4 - 2012 E82 135i - 2010 E92 335i - 2007 E92 335i
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-06-2008, 10:51 PM	#24
price9195 New Member 0 Rep 8 Posts Drives: 335i sedan Join Date: May 2007 Location: michigan iTrader: (0)	I had my car (April 07 build) in for service 4 wks ago for brake light coming on indicating brake service due. Car had only 11,000 mi. and brakes were fine but had to be reprogrammed to get light to turn off. First day, pulling away from mailbox and floor it. Like others have said, the turbo takes a full count to spool up until it hits about 32-3500 rpm. Noticed the car was popping through the exhaust in first gear like it did when I disconnected the exhaust flap. (But then reconnected because of highway drone). Thought I was imagining things until I checked in here. First few days I stalled the car like 3 times because the torque at clutch slip seemed different. Over the last month I have learned to drive my "new car." You have to give more throttle on starts to prevent bogging. To overcome the lag you have to try to keep the revs above 3500 rpm or keep deep into the throttle to keep the turbo spinning. It definitely has changed the car. Mentioned it to my SA when in for a tire replacement last week and he said yes I have 29.2 but denied knowing about the issues. He has a similar month build 335 so I asked him to let me know if he hears anything about a fix for this. I hope that in the next few months enough people complain enough to force a fix. It is a noticeable difference. I feel like they have changed the car into something totally different than what I took delivery of 1 year ago. I should call customer service but haven't yet.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-07-2008, 12:44 PM	#26
slubu Never Go Full Retard 188 Rep 1,851 Posts Drives: White Lightning Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Agrestic iTrader: (2)	Please everyone call and complain. It will help. __________________ 2008 335i
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-08-2008, 09:04 AM	#27
FunRevn Captain 60 Rep 736 Posts Drives: 2020 M5 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Western Region iTrader: (0)	I called and logged my total dislike for the 29.2 progman. Basically they said they havent heard anything negitive about it yet.... Lets keep the flow of calls coming.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-08-2008, 06:43 PM	#29
branabolic Major 24 Rep 1,037 Posts Drives: e92 335i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: so. new hampshire iTrader: (5)	ya when i test drove a 335 in march it had no turbo lag at all, felt like a na v8. got my car may 12 it has v81 and i definatly feel some lag. even more so than my brothers 01 s4 w/ 110k miles. there is lag in this vehicle when bmw prides themselves on it having so little. if you are going to make it lag on purpose, why not have just given us some bigger turbos that dont kill themselves above 5k rpm??? aholes. __________________ i'm not addicted to boost, but i sure am more fun when i'm on it.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-09-2008, 12:28 AM	#30
Quisp Does not play well with others 81 Rep 1,787 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arizona iTrader: (4)	For those of you that got the update and it has lowered performance below the advertised levels and that advertised level was a major determining factor in your decision to buy. The 2007 yamahas were advertised to have an very high redline, it5 was a major part of the ad campaign. After the model was released and independently tested it turned out the redline was lower than advertised. Yamaha had to do a lot of damage control including buying back the motorcycles of people that had bought the bike with the advertised expectation. I realize it is not the exact situation, but if a car was bought and then the builder made it less of a car.....seems fishy. Does anyone know if maybe progman 29.2 does this downgrade to save BMW from having to replace more HPFPs and turbos?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-09-2008, 12:49 AM	#31
mistermojorizin Lieutenant Colonel 40 Rep 1,657 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	I have a Feb 08 built 135i and I bought it on April 14. My car behaves exactly as described in this 2006 post on roadfly http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/bmw...8028595-1.html : "Try stepping on the gas in 4th gear at 2000 rpms. The car will make a little "hiccup" and then go. If the car wasn't a turbo, people would be complaining that there is a problem with the throttle. If you're old like me and remember carburetors....the throttle response of carburetors is much like the turbo lag. It's nothing like the old Saab's, but nevertheless it's there. There is no way you can have turbos without some lag." I don't know if I have 29.2, but i know the car has the abovementioned "hicup" and lag. But as the post demonstrates the 335's had it pre 29.2 anyway. So what's the deal?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-09-2008, 09:40 AM	#34
slubu Never Go Full Retard 188 Rep 1,851 Posts Drives: White Lightning Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Agrestic iTrader: (2)	Do you guys specifically refer to "29.2" or do you remain generic as in "a software update was done and now there is lag"... __________________ 2008 335i
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-09-2008, 10:09 AM	#36
spyahoo Private 0 Rep 64 Posts Drives: 335 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NY iTrader: (0)	. Count me in as having the lag also. I just got 29.2 after my NAV broke. From 0-3000 the car is just slow. Throttle response gone
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-09-2008, 10:13 AM	#37
scottp999 Brigadier General 133 Rep 4,764 Posts Drives: 4runner SR5 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: MD iTrader: (2) Garage List 2007 BMW 335 [9.00]	Would it be better if you consolidated calls to one contact? What's the name and extension of people already contaced at customer support? Atleast this way, they can't keep saying they never heard of it before. Also, if they say they are documenting it, they should be entering some kind of ticket number or tracking id that we can reference. I have never taken my car back to the dealer. The last time the dealer saw my car was on delivery day and they had it in their possesion for only 4 hours after it literally got off the truck in May 2007. I appreciate all the work this group is doing to raise the issue with BMW.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-09-2008, 11:26 AM	#40
slubu Never Go Full Retard 188 Rep 1,851 Posts Drives: White Lightning Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Agrestic iTrader: (2)	I have another idea too that will help us, give me maybe until tomorrow to set it up. __________________ 2008 335i
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-09-2008, 01:39 PM	#41
nightops Lieutenant 17 Rep 473 Posts Drives: 335i E92 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los angeles- Westside iTrader: (2)	Is there any way to know or test if you have 29.2 - I went in for an oil change and I don't know if they've upgraded it, but I'd like to know. I don't remember the car feeling any different though, sorry to hear these complaints, makes me not want to bring my car in... __________________ 335i Space Grey Coupe/ppk/ssk/pe exhaust/perf susp
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-09-2008, 02:18 PM	#43
ezatnova Colonel 101 Rep 2,188 Posts Drives: C63 AMG Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: West Chester, PA iTrader: (5)	Sticky Please? MODS - Could you please make this a STICKY? I have a feeling this issue will be a storm hitting the whole community as more and more cars go in for service and get Progman 29.2. Thanks
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-09-2008, 02:23 PM	#44
Robertbog Lieutenant 71 Rep 526 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Dallas iTrader: (1)	Apparently BMW NA doesnt have contact with the engineering department. I spoke to some very nice lady who explained it, BMW NA will do warranty ect, to filter a complaint through BMW NA onto BMW AG is going to be a hard thing to do and to track. The dealerships have a clear connection to BMW AG through the internet in which they can file complaints, it is a reasonable way for them to also see that it's the average joe doing this, not some forum. __________________ Life Lock Identity Security Discount!
	Appreciate 0 Quote