[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by marconi118

Hi,

GREAT reviev.

I have 2 more questions:

Is it ok daily driving in sport mode in the city? If yes I could buy PSS B16 (the same as PSS10 but fixed damping to sport setup cost 1000€, exist in H&R in stainless steel for 1000€ too)

Does the rear dampers have a cable to go to the control box? In the pictures it seems that the rear has no electronic control.

Additional I am thinking to put the rear bilstein PSS M3 shocks + springs in conjunction with the M3 camber links...

Absolutely no problem driving in "Sport" mode in the city - the car never gets crashy or too harsh. However, the extra rebound available in "Normal" mode does have advantages, especially when negotiating speed bumps etc.

Yes, the non-electronic version is available - it's the regular B16/PSS10 setup, without Ride Control. The damping is still adjustable directly on the damper body itself. The only difference is the electronics. Incidentally, the rear shocks on the Ride Control system do have cables going to the control module - it's just hard to see in the pictures.

If you are going to change the componentry of the rear suspension by changing over to M3 items, including camber links, mounts etc, then you'd have to go for the M3-specific rear struts from Bilstein.

[marconi118]

Yes indeed I sow on the other thread over ride control in suspension section (a lot of pictures) that it has ride control on both front and rear.

My plan is to upgrade on M3 suspension parts, so yes I will have to order a special 335/m3 mixed kit by bilstein.

Could you post some pics of the front upper bearing? I think it reuses the original spring plate and bearing.
The problem is that the 335i oem bearing is in soft rubber bushing that gives poor handling. In fact the E92 M3 has a complete different bearing+plate made of Aluminium (see on realoem.com). It is impossible to use this aluminium bearing+plate on the 335i beacuse the diameter of the 335i spring is bigger.
So whe should use M3 front springs with the 335 bilstein shock + M3 bearing

The kit should have only the front shocks for 335i and all the rest from M3 ride control kit.... difficult to obtain.


Indeed Biltein is producing a PSS10 with manual damping settings (10 steps) but olso a fixed damping kit PSS B14 I think that costs lot less. It should have fixed sport damping.

H&R mades 2 kits (one fixed one manually adjustable) thar are in inox (like KW) the shocks are made by bilstein and identical to PSS10 monotube. They are cheaper and in inox.

In reality for both PSS and HR kits bilstein is doing the shocks and HR the springs. each company his own speciality... they made a bussines contract since long time now...

[doughboy]

Great review.

Mines going in to Birds for LSD and Hartge ARBs in July / August. I don't want to put a suspension kit on then as I want to understand / appreciate the effects of the ARBs first.

I might be looking at suspension after that....... Ths B16 kit seems great.

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by marconi118

Indeed Biltein is producing a PSS10 with manual damping settings (10 steps) but olso a fixed damping kit PSS B14 I think that costs lot less. It should have fixed sport damping.

H&R mades 2 kits (one fixed one manually adjustable) thar are in inox (like KW) the shocks are made by bilstein and identical to PSS10 monotube. They are cheaper and in inox.

In reality for both PSS and HR kits bilstein is doing the shocks and HR the springs. each company his own speciality... they made a bussines contract since long time now...

Yes, the B14 kit is much cheaper, and supposedly setup somewhere in between the Normal and Sport settings of the B16 Ride Control. I haven't tried a car with the B14 so can't comment first hand.

H&R shocks are made by Bilstein, but I think you'll find the variable damping system is based on the PSS9 as opposed to the PSS10, as the H&R are 9-way adjustable as opposed to 10-way. Not a big difference, although Bilstein do say that the valving consistency in the PSS10 is within tighter tolerance than the PSS9 and hence performance is more consistent in the extremes.

The Bilstein's also have a special coating on them that improves the durability of the shocks to an extent that they outperform even stainless steel in terms of corrosion resistance and longevity.

And yes, the Bilstein springs are made by H&R, wound to Bilstein's specification.

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Great review.

Mines going in to Birds for LSD and Hartge ARBs in July / August. I don't want to put a suspension kit on then as I want to understand / appreciate the effects of the ARBs first.

I might be looking at suspension after that....... Ths B16 kit seems great.

Sounds good - you'll enjoy the upgrade hugely I can promise that!
And yes, it's very much a good idea to get used to the car and appreciate the differences in upgrades in stages. I left the suspension standard(ish) for two years before I decided to finally change!

[marconi118]

I have got PSS9 on my audi TT in 2001

the coating was yellovish and after 4 years corroded, the springplates couldn't move anymore.

It seems that new PSS10 has improoved coating... but maybe HR in inox is better?

Will negotiate with HR and bilstein to obtain a mixed kit with 335i front and M3 rear.

Unfortunately there is no bilstein ride control for M3

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by marconi118

I have got PSS9 on my audi TT in 2001

the coating was yellovish and after 4 years corroded, the springplates couldn't move anymore.

It seems that new PSS10 has improoved coating... but maybe HR in inox is better?

Will negotiate with HR and bilstein to obtain a mixed kit with 335i front and M3 rear.

Unfortunately there is no bilstein ride control for M3

The Triple-C coating on the PSS10 is supposed to be 40% better at resisting corrosion than stainless steel. We'll see how it goes, but so far the quality has been top notch.

[Ant Man]

Great mod and excellent write up. I do remember you praising the standard dampers though a while back

They are under damped and that's the main reason the ride is so bad over bumps and around town.

How are the APs now? What caused the squeeking?

Will you be doing any aero mods to increase downforce? Has the decrease in ride height reduced front end lift?

How does the weight of springs / dampers compare to stock?

Any plans to run lighter wheels?

And pls can we have the review of uprated intercooler and AR oil cooler

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by Ant Man

Great mod and excellent write up. I do remember you praising the standard dampers though a while back

And I still do praise the standard dampers, because with a few judicious tweaks to the springs (using Alpina spec springs) and bump stops for instance, you can get a standard car to ride very well under 95% of circumstances.

However, when pushing a car beyond normal boundaries, in the case of the 'Ring or suchlike, there is very obviously a limit as to what the standard suspension can cope with. I had lived quite happily with the standard(ish) suspension for two years and it really was only the lure of maximising the car's potential at the 'Ring that pushed me towards changing over to coilovers.

Originally Posted by Ant Man

How are the APs now? What caused the squeeking?

The APs are brilliant Anyone who went in my car around the 'Ring a few weeks ago will testify to the immense stopping power and zero fade of those brakes. They are simply phenomemal!

The squeaking was down to the original Ferodo DS2500 pads not having anti-noise plates on the back, and were therefore moving too much in the caliper. Having changed over to Pagid 421s all noise has stopped - performance has increased immeasurably too.

Originally Posted by Ant Man

Will you be doing any aero mods to increase downforce? Has the decrease in ride height reduced front end lift?

The lowered ride height has hugely decreased front end lift at speed - there's no longer as much tendency for the car to wander at speeds in excess of 150mph. I will however be adding the Alpina front lip at some stage as that is proven to increase front-end downforce and that's no bad thing!

Originally Posted by Ant Man

How does the weight of springs / dampers compare to stock?

That's one thing I neglected to measure. I would imagine that there isn't really that much difference in weight - if anything, I would imagine the Bilstein's to be heavier, simply because there's just so much more to those dampers than the OEM Boge/Sachs units.

Originally Posted by Ant Man

Any plans to run lighter wheels?

I have thought about this a lot. The wheels I currently use are the BMW Style 230 which I think are lovely. They also happen to be one of the lightest wheels BMW makes for the E9x, at least in 19" size. Total weight of a rear wheel including a 19" Michelin PS2 tyre is 23.2kgs. The wheel itself was 10.6kgs.

Going to a lighter wheel has huge benefit in terms of a reduction in moments of inertia and unsprung weight, which leads to a much crisper handling response, a more efficient transfer of power to the road and hence greater performance.

However, a lighter wheel has significant disadvantages for my own situation - my car lives in Central London and is used as a daily driver. With the amount of cracks and potholes on the roads here, I would very quickly end up bending a new set of lightweight wheels. It's just not very practical and would wind up being an expensive modification over time.

I could get a set wrapped in Cup tyres only for visits to the 'Ring though, and store the wheels over there

Originally Posted by Ant Man

And pls can we have the review of uprated intercooler and AR oil cooler

ok ok ok....

[magic77]

great write up Tony, I might have to start using birds myself as have thought of giving them to car before but diary clash meant had to go dealers

[neo871]

Congrats Tony!

The Bilstein kit is a masterpiece, as well as the car it was installed on. The leveling is great and I bet that the handling is phenomenal!

I bought my LSD from Birds and must say that they are top people too!

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by E92Fan

The lowered ride height has hugely decreased front end lift at speed - there's no longer as much tendency for the car to wander at speeds in excess of 150mph. I will however be adding the Alpina front lip at some stage as that is proven to increase front-end downforce and that's no bad thing!

I can confirm that it does have that effect...and I wonder whether our meeting may have confirmed your idea to proceed that way! In any case, even without such a sumptuous suspension my car is quite stable at high speed - one week ago I pushed it until 300 km/h and it didn't feel unsafe.

Originally Posted by Ant Man

And pls can we have the review of uprated intercooler and AR oil cooler

If I'm not mistaken Tony has the oil cooler from VK Motorwerks. I hope to get the ar design within short...

Alpina_B3_Lux

[zltm089]

great review as usual!!! Tony shud be working for the M division!

[Ant Man]

E92Fan
10kg for the wheel! Was that the front or rear? Either way, that's incredibly light. BMW state 12kg for the Performance 225 rear wheel in 19" and 25kg including RFT. 10kg for a 19" is getting near forged rim territory.

What rear camber settings are you running now, closer to M3 per chance?

Did you get each corner weighted too?

One question I've been wanting to ask you is about the auto gearbox. Given you're a real driving and car enthusiast. How do you get on with the auto and how well does it work in manual / paddle mode around a track and spirited road driving?

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by Ant Man

E92Fan
10kg for the wheel! Was that the front or rear? Either way, that's incredibly light. BMW state 12kg for the Performance 225 rear wheel in 19" and 25kg including RFT. 10kg for a 19" is getting near forged rim territory.

What rear camber settings are you running now, closer to M3 per chance?

Did you get each corner weighted too?

One question I've been wanting to ask you is about the auto gearbox. Given you're a real driving and car enthusiast. How do you get on with the auto and how well does it work in manual / paddle mode around a track and spirited road driving?

Sorry for the delay in replying...!

10kg is for the front wheel, the rear is .75kg heavier or so. Yes, they're light wheels, but not when you compare them to really really lightweight wheels like OZ Superleggera, which I believe weigh around the 8.5kg mark in 19" fitment! The tyres are the killer, although Bridgestone runflats aren't as heavy as I thought. They're only a kilo or so more than the Michelin PS2s. Goodyear Eagle F1s non-RFTs are heavier than the Bridgestone runflats in fact!

You also have to ignore the BMW wheel weights they specify in the ETK - you'll notice that ALL the wheels say 12kg...!! They're not, incidentally..!

I'm running about a degree and a quarter of negative camber, slightly less on the rears to prevent inside-edge wear. Nothing too aggressive by any stretch, and yes it's pretty similar to the M3 setup. Front end response is very good, very direct and linear, and yet without being too twitchy on a motorway run. I just changed the rear tyres three weeks ago. Had 1.8mm tread on the centre, 2mm tread on both edges, so a completely even wear pattern. The rears lasted almost 19,000 miles including all the visits to the 'Ring and suchlike. Pretty impressive!!

I didn't get the suspension corner-weighted totally - instead the car is just balanced four-square to a plane. The reason I didn't go for the corner-weighting is because I generally take passengers when I'm going round the 'Ring, and so it would be pointless balancing the car for just a driver (me).

The auto box works very well under spirited driving. The remap has enlarged and smoothed the torque curve with the net result being the auto box changes gears much more smoothly and precisely as the shift points have a better match to the available torque. It does help that I'm using the Alpina gearbox software too

A lot of people will say that the manual gearbox is the way to go for a true driving enthusiast, and I agree with this point of view entirely. However there is an issue with the amount of torque the 335i manual gearbox can take (ie. not very much) and putting the 635Nm of torque that my car produces through a clutch/flywheel/gearbox combination that was only designed for 400Nm is not ideal! The way around that is obviously to upgrade the clutch - however a really good race clutch that's also suitable for everyday driving just isn't available for this car. A clutch would have to be custom built, and flywheel machined etc etc...

The alternative is to go for a replacement Quaife sequential manual gearbox and clutch combination, which would be great, but it's mega money!!

For my car and what I use it for, the automatic is the only option. It can take the torque, the paddles give me enough control, the gear changes are quick and smooth, it downshifts when I want it to without throwing the car off balance, and overall the whole car gels together very well.

[G33]

tony wat begs me to think what car u r getting next and what u r going to do to it :|

[willhollin]

Originally Posted by G33

tony wat begs me to think what car u r getting next and what u r going to do to it :|

The natural progression would obviously be a denzil Kin.

[marconi118]

wow E92Fan
How did you achieved 635Nm????

ESS stage 4 is given for 580Nm and Evotech and Noelle near the same...

What flash do you use???


I plan to flash + catless DPs + FMIC, can I achieve your 635Nm????

[jah29]

Does anyone happen to know the spring rates on this kit?

thanks.

[gIzzE]

Excellent review Tone, funnily enough I have been considering this kit for my A6 avant!! haha. It just feels like such a waste of money for an Audi, but I need to do something and the two modes really appeal.

[riki18]

Hallo,

I have the same kit on my E92 but the rear springs are hard to fit in the top hole, the ending on the top of the springs is bigger and I have to make it smaller.

E92Fan,

Did you have no problems at all? Did you use anything from the stock suspension?

Thank you

[LayloDaProducer]

I know this thread is old, but this has been very helpful as I've been trying to figure out which suspension system to go with. Thanks for the great write up!!!