[gtp900]

TDI, or others, have you also blocked flaps as well? From what I have read, there does not seem to be any difference in performance with this mod just piece of mind. Our cars have an updated version that is "supposed" to be safer, but there is still a possibility of failure? If I pull egr again, I am considering blocking flaps at the same time.
Thoughts?

[TDIwyse]

I have no intentions to mess with the swirl flaps.

[DieselRacer]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

I have no intentions to mess with the swirl flaps.

Thank God, this is a big deal on the TDI forum, everybody wants to remove the swirl flaps, I have logged it, mine are staying...

[starrfyr]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

I have no intentions to mess with the swirl flaps.

I have a question, actually about a million of them ...

Please correct anything that I've gotten wrong. Your DPF is gone and you've effectively disabled the EGR. Also, your manifold pressure is boosted and you run methanol into the intake. Where do I begin ...

First, does the meth lower IAT enough to retain the stock IC without worrying about heat-soak? Second, what's the flow rate of the meth? Third, is the flow rate of the meth coded to extend the torque curve holding 500 lb-ft into the high 3k's or does your curve have similar slope characteristics as a stock curve with a much higher peak torque?

Aside from those questions I have a comment. I have a good relationship with the shop foreman at a dealership in the metro area where I live. I consider myself lucky. As a consequence, the foreman indulges my curiosity by encouraging his senior techs to talk to me when they feel inclined. I had a conversation with one of those guys and mentioned "DPF delete" to him. He said, "If you can mask the DDE and make it think the DPF is still there then you will pass "smog" and your engine will run better and longer." He was reluctant to be more specific because of the illegality of the topic but I did get confirmation from him that it can be done and it's better for the car after it is.

Thank you for your contributions and your time.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by starrfyr

I have a question, actually about a million of them ...

Please correct anything that I've gotten wrong. Your DPF is gone and you've effectively disabled the EGR. Also, your manifold pressure is boosted and you run methanol into the intake. Where do I begin ...

Basically, yes. But also the EGR cooler is gone, there's a secondary 2um H2O separating and drainable fuel filter, crankcase filter, modified air intake, Quaife LSD ...

Originally Posted by starrfyr

First, does the meth lower IAT enough to retain the stock IC without worrying about heat-soak? Second, what's the flow rate of the meth? Third, is the flow rate of the meth coded to extend the torque curve holding 500 lb-ft into the high 3k's or does your curve have similar slope characteristics as a stock curve with a much higher peak torque?

Flow rate info can be seen here (although I've now stepped it up to ~800 ml/min max instead of ~650 in this video):

Most of the fussing around I've been doing is to push the torque up in the higher rpm ranges without having too much down low.

The big nozzle is placed ~6 inches before the IAT probe so the DDE can see the reduced intake air temps and adjust/modify fueling accordingly. Measured data shows the IAT's can be drug down to ambient or below on full fueling pulls on the road. See this for example data:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=701

The next link is data for EGT's and IAT's for dyno runs that were done WITHOUT any fans blowing on the front of the car. So the air intake is breathing hot air and the intercooler isn't able to shed heat like it will when driving down the road with air flowing over it. This was a worst case kind of stress test for the system in terms of IAT's and EGT's. It is comparing the Ecotune remap with downpipe by itself vs the same config but extra fueling and H2O/methanol. You can compare for yourself how well the H2O/methanol works for controlling EGT's and IAT's.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=872

All of the above is with the OEM intercooler. In fact, the H2O/methanol is so effective I've considered ditching the intercooler and just going with a pipe...

Originally Posted by starrfyr

Aside from those questions I have a comment. I have a good relationship with the shop foreman at a dealership in the metro area where I live. I consider myself lucky. As a consequence, the foreman indulges my curiosity by encouraging his senior techs to talk to me when they feel inclined. I had a conversation with one of those guys and mentioned "DPF delete" to him. He said, "If you can mask the DDE and make it think the DPF is still there then you will pass "smog" and your engine will run better and longer." He was reluctant to be more specific because of the illegality of the topic but I did get confirmation from him that it can be done and it's better for the car after it is.

Thank you for your contributions and your time.

I think a lot of people in states that do smog checking would like to be able to do what you're talking about. I do not know, and have not looked into, how to do it.

[GreekboyD]

Is it even possible "tricking" the DDE into thinking the DPF is there once removed? If you take regens out of the coding then I can't see how you can "fool" the DDE that it's still there. I guess you could if you wanted to clog the DPF but what about the difference in back pressure when the DPF is gone?

[GottaBeKD]

Originally Posted by GreekboyD

Is it even possible "tricking" the DDE into thinking the DPF is there once removed? If you take regens out of the coding then I can't see how you can "fool" the DDE that it's still there. I guess you could if you wanted to clog the DPF but what about the difference in back pressure when the DPF is gone?

It should be fairly simple to do as part of the DDE reprogramming.

The software currently reports a status for DPF from the sensors and equipment based on a number of parameters.

If you go through the trouble to code out the DPF functionality it should not be difficult to always return a status of okay.

[GreekboyD]

Originally Posted by GottaBeKD

It should be fairly simple to do as part of the DDE reprogramming.

The software currently reports a status for DPF from the sensors and equipment based on a number of parameters.

If you go through the trouble to code out the DPF functionality it should not be difficult to always return a status of okay.

I was referring to this post:

Originally Posted by starrfyr

I had a conversation with one of those guys and mentioned "DPF delete" to him. He said, "If you can mask the DDE and make it think the DPF is still there then you will pass "smog" and your engine will run better and longer." He was reluctant to be more specific because of the illegality of the topic but I did get confirmation from him that it can be done and it's better for the car after it is.

So what I'm saying is if you remove the DPF you'd have to code out regens and also account for the back pressure differences. I'm just thinking out loud that once you do that, is it even possible to trick the DDE into thinking that the DPF is still there, especially if the DPF sensor is no longer attached to a DPF.

Perhaps that is accomplished by the above code deletes?

[DieselRacer]

Originally Posted by GreekboyD

I was referring to this post:





So what I'm saying is if you remove the DPF you'd have to code out regens and also account for the back pressure differences. I'm just thinking out loud that once you do that, is it even possible to trick the DDE into thinking that the DPF is still there, especially if the DPF sensor is no longer attached to a DPF.

Perhaps that is accomplished by the above code deletes?

No, has to be done through the ECU, via a tune...

[GreekboyD]

Originally Posted by DieselRacer

No, has to be done through the ECU, via a tune...

I know that dude. Just talking about the "trick the DDE" part after coding those other parameters out.

[starrfyr]

Originally Posted by GreekboyD

I was referring to this post:





So what I'm saying is if you remove the DPF you'd have to code out regens and also account for the back pressure differences. I'm just thinking out loud that once you do that, is it even possible to trick the DDE into thinking that the DPF is still there, especially if the DPF sensor is no longer attached to a DPF.

Perhaps that is accomplished by the above code deletes?

Going out on a limb here and saying, "Yes." My car was just smogged and I had the raw data used by DEQ here in OR (same rules as CA). The smog tech is looking for the DDE to narc you off. If it gets back a "ready" from the DDE modules, emissions is one of them, you pass. This was confirmed during my conversation with the Sr. Tech. He said, "When the DEQ guy plugs his monitor into the ODB-II port his software does not probe the DDE. Instead, it passively accepts what the DDE tells it. If it reports "ready" on all modules with no faults and the DEQ guy doesn't see smoke or notice missing emissions equipment (DPF, Cat, etc.), then you will pass."

[starrfyr]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Basically, yes. But also the EGR cooler is gone, there's a secondary 2um H2O separating and drainable fuel filter, crankcase filter, modified air intake, Quaife ...

Most of the fussing around I've been doing is to push the torque up in the higher rpm ranges without having too much down low.

Your detailed response was awesome, thank you.

[DieselRacer]

In AZ its just a visual inspection, they look for a Cat or DPF, you can hollow it out if you want and leave it intact, they never even really know what they are looking for, we just remove it all and good to go...

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by starrfyr

Going out on a limb here and saying, "Yes." My car was just smogged and I had the raw data used by DEQ here in OR (same rules as CA). The smog tech is looking for the DDE to narc you off. If it gets back a "ready" from the DDE modules, emissions is one of them, you pass. This was confirmed during my conversation with the Sr. Tech. He said, "When the DEQ guy plugs his monitor into the ODB-II port his software does not probe the DDE. Instead, it passively accepts what the DDE tells it. If it reports "ready" on all modules with no faults and the DEQ guy doesn't see smoke or notice missing emissions equipment (DPF, Cat, etc.), then you will pass."

This is exactly right. With some tuning software you can actually get the computers to report complete obd readiness even without any o2 sensors or cats installed. The emissions test is a "dumb" test, it just reports what it is told.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

3 fillups has shown another slight step increase in mpg's. 2 of those were just above 40 mpg's each for normal commuting back and forth to work. Improvement is likely from the elimination of post injection. But it's still a little early and preliminary to know for sure.

Here's a hand calculated mpg comparison of June vs July mileage for pre/post EGR mod. Similar driving conditions for these miles with the main difference being the EGR mod (vast majority of miles in both cases is driving to/from work and this should all be the same type of summer fuel blend and the temp averages for June and July have been very similar). Data indicates a slight additional increase in mpg's.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

Wow impressive results TDi

[gtp900]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Here's a hand calculated mpg comparison of June vs July mileage for pre/post EGR mod. Similar driving conditions for these miles with the main difference being the EGR mod (vast majority of miles in both cases is driving to/from work and this should all be the same type of summer fuel blend and the temp averages for June and July have been very similar). Data indicates a slight additional increase in mpg's.

This looks like a MUST, one would stand to reason you are running a little leaner now... So maby you could bump up the fuel mixture a little for more power? Or with your current tune are you maxed out on injectors? Maby a little smoke wot but Shouldn't be any worries about dpf getting clogged

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by gtp900

This looks like a MUST, one would stand to reason you are running a little leaner now... So maby you could bump up the fuel mixture a little for more power? Or with your current tune are you maxed out on injectors? Maby a little smoke wot but Shouldn't be any worries about dpf getting clogged

Well, I'm pretty sure this wouldn't work for some people. It could cause problems for those with DPF's since the system doesn't have control of the EGR valve and appears to not want to use post injection because of this... you can't do an active regen without post injection.

[gtp900]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Well, I'm pretty sure this wouldn't work for some people. It could cause problems for those with DPF's since the system doesn't have control of the EGR valve and appears to not want to use post injection because of this... you can't do an active regen without post injection.

Right, I was referring to yourself and others without dpf's
What are your thoughts on the extra fueling?

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by gtp900

...
What are your thoughts on the extra fueling?

I'm more than satisfied with the level of fueling.

[2deerwhistlers]

On 20-132 mph full throttle pulls I'm at around 571 Celsius which should be around 1360 Fahrenheit pre turbos.. That's no water... And sorry that part of the conversation was on the last page

[Yozh]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

I'm more than satisfied with the level of fueling.

I bet you are also more than satisfied with the amount of power